AGM-65F slaving to TGP question

[SharpeXB]

When I create an area track with the TGP and try to uncage/slave the Mav to it, the missile slaves to the waypoint instead.

Track attached

1st attempt, the Mav doesn't slave to the area track

2nd attempt, the Mav doesn't slave but some fiddling with the TGP gets it locked

3rd attempt, the Mav slaves right to the area track as expected.

Why the difference?

MavF.trk

[Razor18]

Sorry if sounds stupid, but do you designate with TDC depress? If you start with WPDSG (a it sounds to me), don't expect the Maverick to know you are looking to and tracking a diffferent spot on the ground in the meantime with your TGP. That's what TDC depress is for. Sorry if obvious to you too.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Razor18

[SharpeXB]

4 hours ago, Razor18 said:

Sorry if sounds stupid, but do you designate with TDC depress? If you start with WPDSG (a it sounds to me), don't expect the Maverick to know you are looking to and tracking a diffferent spot on the ground in the meantime with your TGP. That's what TDC depress is for. Sorry if obvious to you too.

I’m not depressing the TDC (with TGP as SOI) in any of the attacks. Afaik the TDC press with the L Pod just enables the offset cursor. In the 2nd and 3rd runs the Mav slews to the Area Track. Watch the 2nd run where initially the Mav doesn’t slew to the track just like the first one, but when I re-designate a target with another Area Track, it does. Why the difference?

[trekflyer]

I second the need to TDC depress. If you do point track for instance, it'll put a little cross in the center of the track bars like this |+| , choose maverick sensor as SOI and then you can uncage your maverick and it will find that point.  

[SharpeXB]

9 minutes ago, trekflyer said:

I second the need to TDC depress. If you do point track for instance, it'll put a little cross in the center of the track bars like this |+| , choose maverick sensor as SOI and then you can uncage your maverick and it will find that point.  

In the second and third attack I didn’t press the TDC and yet the Mav slewed to the target regardless. So why didn’t it in the first run and the first attempt on attack #2?

[Ephedrin]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb SharpeXB:

In the second and third attack I didn’t press the TDC and yet the Mav slewed to the target regardless. So why didn’t it in the first run and the first attempt on attack #2?

It depends on how you slewed the targeting pod to the area of interest. If you use a waypoint with WPDSG on the HSI or SA page this is the point it will look at. This is also the point where your JDAM in TOO mode would go. It‘s the equivalent to a ground radar designation. 

WPDSG, ground radar, whatever you do with the castle switch, they all provide the system with a target. If you then move the tpod around with the TDC you need to tell the system that this new coordinates are your target and you do this with TDC depress. 
 

I believe that when you don‘t slave the TPod to a point and directly use it with the HMD or just by flying it to a target you only need to go into a track mode, area/point or scene/auto.
 

This is from memory, I do all that with muscle memory so the explanation could be slightly wrong but I believe that this is how it works just keep in mind that the TPod works a bit differently with the Hornet‘s avionic than in the Warthog or Viper.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Ephedrin

[SharpeXB]

Yes, pressing the TDC in the example of the first pass definitely works. It’s interesting that there’s no indication I notice on the TGP screen that you’ve pressed it or changed the SPI. Seems clear in the first run the Mav is slewing to the SPI and not the area track. In the second pass it goes to the SPI unless I reselect a track and then it snaps to that. 

[markom]

It may help here to consider that, from what I understand, F/A-18 doesn't seem to have the concept of SPI, in the same way F-16 does. I still struggle with this :-).

[Tholozor]

Correct. SOI and SPI are not applicable to the Hornet. Unlike making something SOI in the Falcon or A-10, assigning the TDC to a page does not automatically make it the driving source of a TGT designation.

For example, using WPDSG may slave the targeting pod to the designation, but assigning the TDC to the FLIR page will not immediately command the pod to drive the TGT designation (not without direct pilot action such as TDC Depress or switching to another tracking mode like AREA/SCENE or POINT/AUTO).

Edited August 8, 2022 by Tholozor

[markom]

50 minutes ago, Tholozor said:

(not without direct pilot action such as TDC Depress or switching to another tracking mode like AREA/SCENE or POINT/AUTO)

So... this is now where it can get tricky. While I will never claim I am an expert, or even that I know what I am doing half the time... I could swear that I had a situation yesterday where:

 

• I had WPDSG selected.
• TGP (LITENING) was looking there, but this is not what I needed to hit.
• I slew my TGP to a point where I needed to hit, and castle-switched the pod to AREA.
• Switching to MAVF, and uncaging, slaved it to the originally WPDSG point, and not the new area where I slew the pod to

And no, I do not have a track for this, I am sorry.

Edited August 8, 2022 by markom

[Lane]

13 hours ago, markom said:

So... this is now where it can get tricky. While I will never claim I am an expert, or even that I know what I am doing half the time... I could swear that I had a situation yesterday where:

 

• I had WPDSG selected.
• TGP (LITENING) was looking there, but this is not what I needed to hit.
• I slew my TGP to a point where I needed to hit, and castle-switched the pod to AREA.
• Switching to MAVF, and uncaging, slaved it to the originally WPDSG point, and not the new area where I slew the pod to

And no, I do not have a track for this, I am sorry.

Had you designate the target with TDC Depress ? If i remember correctly or not wrong It is needed for update the target . Otherwise the Maverick allready look at the WPT selected. This will update the target designation for the Maverick. ( if use TDC in realistic mode it is not needed i think) 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, markom said:

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Lane

[evilnate]

Yes using TGP to aim assist Maverick F missiles is a PITA, especially moving targets. If the target moves after TDC depress, even though TGP is tracking, uncaged MAV slaves to original location where TGP was looking when TDC was depressed. Quite depressing really. 

[FrostLaufeyson]

When you move the TDC from the TGP to the MAVF page, the TGP will pass a static coordinate to the MAVF, and the MAVF's rotation speed is too slow, so it often fails to lock the target you want, and you must switch to the TGP again. Then switch to MAVF, and then perform cage and uncage

[SharpeXB]

I’d have to go try the A-10 again but I’m pretty sure you can make a point track on a moving target SPI and then slave the Mav to SPI and it tracks. Not saying the Hornet should work the same, it’s a different aircraft. Just if you’re used to the Hog this seems a bit different. 

[markom]

Never tried A10, but I spent some time in DCS F16 before playing with Hornet. Really, you need to forget all about the SPI as a concept in '18. It will not help.

[CBStu]

I usually have similar problem w/ MavF and TGP. Enough that I don't usually use the TGP. Using the sensor select switch to change TGP modes and trying to get it to make the change exactly when the moving truck is in the right spot is a crap shoot at best. The problem is though that the MavF display has a very limited zoom so lining up on a truck from 15,000ft doesn't work well either. At this point when I fly a mission needing TGP help for the Mav, I usually do 4-5 attempts, get frustrated, and move to another mission.