Is it going to be worth going 3090 to 4090?

[some1]

13 minutes ago, edmuss said:

Don't rely on the VRAM usage shown by fpsvr or task manager as gospel, they only show the allocated not the acutal used.

I've been thinking the same when I got the 3080. Yeah yeah, allocated doesn't mean it's actually used, gpu drivers can adjust to less VRAM, 10GB will be fine, etc. Then DCS got to a point where I couldn't even bring any VR menus or overlays in VR on top of DCS, because everything would slow down to a crawl and stutter massively from VRAM shortage. It may not always be 17 gig and up, and it may run fine on 16 GB card, but it certainly requires above 10GB. 

To my understanding, OpenXR only shows VRAM usage by the game, and does not take into account VRAM required for your system and other apps working in the background. 

 

10 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

I know there are some out there -- but I have yet to see any performance comparison using OpenXR...  

I did some comparisons yesterday, but just as I didn't see any performance benefit on my system before, I don't see it now. FFR improves things a bit, but I can also enable FFR with SteamVR for similar results. 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

So, SteamVR is not the "bad guy" now? Good to know when one day I get my G2...

[some1]

I may not be the right person to ask, I never saw any real gains with OXR on my system.

 

[speed-of-heat]

I don't think you get perf gains (or not many) from OXR , what i think you get is better handling of sub 45fps, you will get reprojection at 30 and 22.5 which will make the whole experience smoother e.g. i can't fly the Mariana's in my F-18 in SVR because it becomes uncomfortable below 45FPS but in OXR  i get two more steps of Motion Smoothing before the system runs out of headroom.. which makes Mariana's and the Channel playable in VR

[edmuss]

Curiously if I switch back to steamvr with identical settings I generally lose up to 10fps, this is in addition to the additional smoothness of openxr both with and without reprojection.

I've read in the past that 10gb does struggle with DCS (particularly with steamvr over openxr), don't forget that the 10gb 3080 10gb also has a narrower memory bus width than the 12gb 3080/ti and 3090 so can't switch the data bank and forth so quickly; this is why the 12gb 3060 was an absolute farce.

edit: @some1  were you using steamvr reprojection with your test scenario with the 3080 where it slowed to a crawl?

Edited October 17, 2022 by edmuss

[speed-of-heat]

8 minutes ago, edmuss said:

Curiously if I switch back to steamvr with identical settings I generally lose up to 10fps, this is in addition to the additional smoothness of openxr both with and without reprojection.

I've read in the past that 10gb does struggle with DCS (particularly with steamvr over openxr), don't forget that the 10gb 3080 10gb also has a narrower memory bus width than the 12gb 3080/ti and 3090 so can't switch the data bank and forth so quickly; this is why the 12gb 3060 was an absolute farce.

edit: @some1  were you using steamvr reprojection with your test scenario with the 3080 where it slowed to a crawl?

 

thats good to know, i must admit i havent done a frame count, without Motion Smoothing on so thats likely why you see the difference more easily .. .

[some1]

56 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

I don't think you get perf gains (or not many) from OXR , what i think you get is better handling of sub 45fps, you will get reprojection at 30 and 22.5 which will make the whole experience smoother e.g. i can't fly the Mariana's in my F-18 in SVR because it becomes uncomfortable below 45FPS but in OXR  i get two more steps of Motion Smoothing before the system runs out of headroom.. which makes Mariana's and the Channel playable in VR

It doesn't help much if the reprojection itself is of lower quality, with more artifacts showing. And the reprojection preemptively drops to 30 fps in places where it still maintains 45 on SVR.

Anyway, I don't want this thread to turn into another SVR into OXR debate. I simply checked both and currently I can't tell a clear winner in terms of performance.

[edmuss]

Well I don't see a change in FPS per se as I'm above refresh rate 95% of the time but last time I checked my normal appGPU frametimes are around 11-13ms (90-77 FPS) in openxr and 13-15 (77-67 FPS) in steamvr.

3 minutes ago, some1 said:

It doesn't help much if the reprojection itself is of lower quality, with more artifacts showing. And the reprojection preemptively drops to 30 fps in places where it still maintains 45 on SVR.

Yeah, steamvr reprojection is still better for artifacting and computational overhead but hopefully this will improve in the future. Keeping above refresh is where it's at

Edited October 17, 2022 by edmuss

[freehand]

Unfortunately you can not have your cake and eat it with OXR unless as said above.

[Supmua]

For me OpenXR increases CPU frametime slightly and at the same time lowers GPU frametime by a bit also. If you have top-tier CPU you may not see this but my 9900K is no longer modern. In any case, the rtx 4090 can flatten GPU frametime so much that you might not need to monitor this and only just CPU frametime, unless the rendering is at crazy high resolution such as 7-8K. 
 

When my GPU arrives I’m planning to do full analysis, and if the current CPU performance is not satisfactory might upgrade to 5800X3D to get by until super fast DDR5 RAM and next gen motherboards become widely available and cheaper. This route seems the most economical with the ability to reuse my RAM. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Supmua

[StormBat]

I'm a little frustrated.  I, and my brother, have been waiting for our Hp Reverb G2 version 2 for a little over a month.  We finally got it last week, only to find out that it's not compatible with a 3090TI GPU. So I haven't even been able to test it out at all yet.  Don't worry, there is a workaround, and it'll be fixed with the new hardware we had to order coming by the end of the week (basically a repeater and 8K cable).   I just recently built a brand-new PC a little over a month ago for VR and specifically DCS World, and it's no slouch (read my Signature).  Should I have waited for a 4000 series card?

[speed-of-heat]

You need a powered repeater for the display port for the 3090ti, it’s a bug on the nvidia side… do a search for more details

[StormBat]

2 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

You need a powered repeater for the display port for the 3090ti, it’s a bug on the nvidia side… do a search for more details

Ya mate, I know it's coming this week.  Thanks, and cheers.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

FYI, it seems that SCAN.UK no longer carries any 3090Ti card, sell-alone or build with custom PC alike... shame. Now I can justify the 4090 to my chancellor...

As for OXR vs SVR, I think I am leaving it till I get a used G2V2 down the line on another thread, the rig comes first.

[Supmua]

MSI has decided to raise the MSRP of the 4090 Suprim Liquid X on their store by almost $200. Consider yourself lucky if you already got one of these. 

[Werewolf_fs]

 

[Supmua]

4 hours ago, Werewolf_fs said:

 

The power draw is great, much lower than the 3090Ti.  So far the advantages seem to be lower temperature, increased fps via lower CPU and GPU frametimes, as well as reduced power consumption (unless you overclock to above 3000 MHz).  I’ll bet the fps goes up more with manual overclocking, at the expense of increased wattage, as CPU isn’t bottlenecking in this mission.  The 4090 is more of a 4K and above res card though, so you still won’t see optimal gain at this res.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Supmua

[Al-Azraq]

9 hours ago, Werewolf_fs said:

 

So sad to spend 2.000 € and watch the 4090 sit at 70-80% usage due to CPU bottleneck. And that is in a barebones mission.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Al-Azraq

[Hiob]

24 minutes ago, Al-Azraq said:

So sad to spend 2.000 € and watch the 4090 sit at 70-80% usage due to CPU bottleneck. And that is in a barebones mission.

 

I call h0rsesh1t …. the cpu can easily manage 120 fps+ in a barebone caucasus mission. I assume something else is bottlenecking there. Or the drivers are still borked. 

[Werewolf_fs]

I would say, the CPU and the GPU are waiting for DCS  ... ED, Multithreading now!!

[Digitalvole]

OCUK just got 10x 4090s (at 12:20 on a Wednesday afternoon) and they sold out in 5 mins (according to the guy I spoke to on the phone just now.) 

Am I paranoid in thinking that had to be bot wielding scalpers? I got the stock alert (been checking email every 5 mins) and buy the time I’m through to the website there gone.

To add insult to injury, I’d emailed them this morning about stock and they said they had no idea when they are getting anymore.

Buying a gfx card really does suck all the fun out of life haha.

Sorry, bit of a vent, it’s just frustrating.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Digitalvole

[Tom Kazansky]

10 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Am I paranoid in thinking that had to be bot wielding scalpers?

 

no, you are not paranoid imho. when I look at ebay I see lots of RTX 4090 but with scalper's price tags on 'em.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Tom Kazansky

[Supmua]

12 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

OCUK just got 10x 4090s (at 12:20 on a Wednesday afternoon) and they sold out in 5 mins (according to the guy I spoke to on the phone just now.) 

Am I paranoid in thinking that had to be bot wielding scalpers? I got the stock alert (been checking email every 5 mins) and buy the time I’m through to the website there gone.

Buying a gfx card really does suck all the fun out of life haha.

 

It's been like this every time new GPUs are introduced, and as someone who's been upgrading pretty much every cycle I'm quite used to this.  The real problem is that if you don't buy right away the price is going to be jacked up initially by scalpers and later on by the vendors themselves (MSI already did this with their liquid cooling version, what's worse is that retailers such as Amazon, Newegg, etc will also do this).  So forget paying MSRP until the craze dies down, and this is why I decide to be an early adopter because I don't want to pay above MSRP.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Supmua

[Digitalvole]

3 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said:

no, you are not paranoid imho. whe I look at ebay I see lots of RTX 4090 but with scalper's price tags on 'em.

 

Hmm, thought as much. Hard to say much more without using bad language.

2 minutes ago, Supmua said:

It's been like this every time new GPUs are introduced, and as someone who's been upgrading pretty much every cycle I'm quite used to this.  The real problem is that if you don't buy right away the price is going to be jacked up initially by scalpers and later on by the vendors themselves (MSI already did this with their liquid cooling version).  So forget paying MSRP until the craze dies down, and this is why I decide to be an early adopter because I don't want to pay above MSRP.

Im trying to be an early adopter, but when the initial stock sells out in under an hour, and restocks sell out in 5 mins, it’s not easy.

[Supmua]

Yeah it's rough when they're limiting the initial supplies to drive up the demands and craze to increase revenue.  But this is one of the ways they can stay in business longer.  A better way (for the consumers) to do this is the Apple's way, have a solid preordering system in place where everybody who wants it gets it.  You might have to wait a bit but you're guaranteed to receive the products at some point in time...you can also get rid of scalpers that way unless you really need it right away.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Supmua