correct as-is AH-64D Turning right and doing weird movements in DCS Open Beta 2.7.18.30348

[Yuto]

Have been noticing a weird pattern with the apache? Been flying it lately and i decided to test something, as soon as i apply torque and take off the helo has a lot of right roll, it keeps turning to the right for whatever reason. I turned the control indicator on and decided to only apply torque without any HOTAS movement and the apache started turning to the right and doing very weird maneuvers, I'm very sure this isn't realistic and it wasn't like this before the new OB update, is it actually like real life? because i dont see apaches doing right turns this violently during take off. Would love an explanation 
 

 

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

we are aware of some flight model issues and have some tweaks coming in a future patch, 

please include a track replay example from in game if possible when reporting issues.

thanks

[Yuto]

AH-64D Right turn and weird movements.trk
here you go Bignewy, track file in CAU, no mods, 0 wind, no weight changes and its the same result

[Raptor9]

The AH-64 is a helicopter; as such it is held in the air via a balance of opposing forces. As each of these forces are changed, the remainder must be adjusted to maintain that balance. Unlike a plane in which one input can be made with minimal to no impact on the other flight control inputs.

What you are seeing is the onset of translating tendency and the thrust of the tail rotor, both inducing a rolling of the fuselage to the right around the pivot point of the landing gear contact with the ground. When you lift off without adjusting the flight controls to compensate for these forces, you will get the behavior you see.

[shagrat]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb Yuto:

Have been noticing a weird pattern with the apache? Been flying it lately and i decided to test something, as soon as i apply torque and take off the helo has a lot of right roll, it keeps turning to the right for whatever reason. I turned the control indicator on and decided to only apply torque without any HOTAS movement and the apache started turning to the right and doing very weird maneuvers, I'm very sure this isn't realistic and it wasn't like this before the new OB update, is it actually like real life? because i dont see apaches doing right turns this violently during take off. Would love an explanation 
 

 

This seems to be related to the new rigging of the anti-torque pedals, as explained in this post:

This is only the anti-torque.

There is another issue with FM, as Bignewy mentioned, which is related to an excessive modeling of "tailrotor Vortex Ring State", but that seems only to affect hover or lateral movement above 10 kts.

Your issue looks more like what Raptor9 pointed out. Try adjusting pedal input and cyclic to compensate the lateral thrust from the tailrotor.

Edit: sniped by Raptor9 

Edited September 28, 2022 by shagrat

[Yuto]

3 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

The AH-64 is a helicopter; as such it is held in the air via a balance of opposing forces. As each of these forces are changed. The remainder must be adjusted to maintain that balance. Unlike a plane in which one input can be made with minimal to no impact on the other flight control inputs.

What you are seeing is the onset of translating tendency and the trhust of the tail rotor, both rolling the fuselage to the right around the pivot point of the landing gear contact with the ground. When you lift off without adjusting the flight controls to compensate for these forces, you will get the behavior you see.

that might be the issue, but while trying to hover even after taking off the helo still rolls to the right, have tried trimming it, it fixes the issue slightly, but the helo still rolls to the right, same exact conditions you see in that video. My main question is why has this not happened before and only after the update? im assuming either it was meant to be like this with the new FM changes or there is a bug.

it could be what shagrat posted the "tailrotor Vortex Ring State" might be the issue, but with or without yaw input the helo still seems to roll to the right for me, have flown it with and without trim, still the same issue.

[Raptor9]

It's not related to tail rotor VRS. It's simply a balance of forces.

Expect the flight model to evolve throughout Early Access.

[Yuto]

been flying the apache none-stop before and after the update and i can tell you this feels different to what it used to be, it doesn't feel right, probably because I'm not used to such behavior, I've seen other people tend to also complain about the apache being too sensitive on the roll now that the new OB update is out it seems like the Helos FM has gotten worse in a lot of aspects and some ED team member has mentioned that the changes in the new OB update are an accidently release and were not meant to be released so does that explain something? either way good luck with the hotfix, hopefully everything turns out as expected.

[Swift.]

Remember that the neutral position for the pedals has been corrected. So that even with as you say 'no input', the tail rotor is still pushing you to the right.

What was shown in the video above looks like a very reasonable response to a pilot not controlling the aircraft. 

[-Cipher-]

Hi I encountered this problem today 
one of the conditions to meet this strange behavior is : 
load up fuel tanks on station 1 & 4 then ask for rearming then replace all payload with 16x hellfires you may encounter this roll right behavior