New Intel 13k series CPUs. Worth the wait?

[tomcat_driver]

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by tomcat_driver

[LucShep]

Yep, for DCS, I think so.
i5 13600KF (or i7 13700KF) + least expensive kit of 64GB DDR4 3600 CL18 RAM + most affordable Z790 DDR4 motherboard...
That will probably be (again) the best value base combo for new DCS systems, IMHO. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by LucShep

[tigayot228]

In fact, I think the same thing. Performance and consumption similar to the 5800x3d, but with greater productivity for work.

[BitMaster]

Well, you can build a budget 5800X3D on a B450 and more RAM kits to choose from.

I am not convinced. Performance per Watt & per Dollar they all lack behind the X3D.

The big ? is, how much more will AMD's 7000 X3D deliver. My hope is it dominates like the 5800X3D does.

Edited October 20, 2022 by BitMaster

[Rubber Biscuit]

If AMD want’s people to adopt the new platform then they should release to 7000 x3d chip now.

I don’t want to wait 6 months so I may go for a Intel 13 gen because of cheeper over all cost.

[tomcat_driver]

I agree. With both intel or amd, I need a new motherboard. Intel's b660 are currently selling for almost half the price than its "budget" b650 counterpart, and I can use my DDR4 RAM with intel.

It boils down to being about 300€ cheaper going with the 13600k.

5800X3d although selling for almost 500€ here, is still the cheapest solution for my current AM4, albeit not the best for a mixed gaming/productivity stand point and no upgradability whatsoever down the road, nor any tunability.

Edited October 21, 2022 by tomcat_driver

[sirrah]

First of all, a small disclaimer: I'm a layman on the subject of current gen pc hardware and its performance for DCS, so please don't shoot me if this doesn't make sense .

 

On the matter of whether or not to upgrade a CPU now for DCS; If money is no issue, of course one should just buy the best there is available on the market, but for all of us that have to find a balance between acceptable costs vs win in performance, shouldn't we in this discussion include the possibility of ED implementing multithreading?

Ok, no one (except for maybe the ED dev team) has any idea of the state of multithreading and how close or not we actually are to seeing this happen in DCS. iirc, I read somewhere here on the forum (from Nineline) that internally ED started with testing (although I'm not the only one that saw this, I can't find that particular post now). Ok, that doesn't really say anything, it could still take years for all we know, but it might be a valid reason to hold on as long as possible with upgrading your CPU. I know I'm holding on to my 8700k as long as humanly possible  

[Hoirtel]

13 minutes ago, sirrah said:

First of all, a small disclaimer: I'm a layman on the subject of current gen pc hardware and its performance for DCS, so please don't shoot me if this doesn't make sense .

 

On the matter of whether or not to upgrade a CPU now for DCS; If money is no issue, of course one should just buy the best there is available on the market, but for all of us that have to find a balance between acceptable costs vs win in performance, shouldn't we in this discussion include the possibility of ED implementing multithreading?

Ok, no one (except for maybe the ED dev team) has any idea of the state of multithreading and how close or not we actually are to seeing this happen in DCS. iirc, I read somewhere here on the forum (from Nineline) that internally ED started with testing (although I'm not the only one that saw this, I can't find that particular post now). Ok, that doesn't really say anything, it could still take years for all we know, but it might be a valid reason to hold on as long as possible with upgrading your CPU. I know I'm holding on to my 8700k as long as humanly possible  

I don't think that's actually a big issue, pretty much all CPU's have many cores now and I would expect a multi threaded DCS will still benefit from the same single thread performance it does now but using more than one core. I don't expect that it would be comparable to a productivity workload where more cores is king and the individual performance of those cores is less important. 

Someone correct me if they think otherwise!

[EightyDuce]

15 hours ago, Rubber Biscuit said:

If AMD want’s people to adopt the new platform then they should release to 7000 x3d chip now.

I don’t want to wait 6 months so I may go for a Intel 13 gen because of cheeper over all cost.

So far 13th Gen is comparable to Zen4 within margin of error except its on a dead-end platform, if you're good with that, save your money and buy Intel, especially if can recycle the ram/motherboard. 

 

If X3D for Zen4 is just as much of a performance improvement as 5800 was, it's going to mop the floor with Raptor Lake. 

[TheRBT]

I was almost ready to pull the trigger on the 13900K but then I saw the tomshardware review. While the 13900K is winning in some games, 5800x3d is still beating it in some others. The most important of them is MSFS!! And its beating it quite handily!

Will we see something similar in DCS?? Because if so, the 7950x3d or whatever will definitely be even better. 

 

 

 

 

[jaguara5]

Here the 13600K is ahead of the 5800x3d in 1440p in MSFS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsZj7i3gGo0&t=149s

Don't know what to believe. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by jaguara5

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, AirMeister said:

For DCS it probably won't make a noticable difference even though it's pretty cpu heavy. 
I haven't tested yet , but expecting no improvement. 

As for other games, as they are usually heavy on the graphics card you won't notice a meaningful difference between the 13600k or the 13900, or even the 12th series, or AMD cpu's. 

One thing to keep in mind about the 13900k, ... it gets REALLY hot. 
24 cores , (+ multithreading) , holy crap. 

During gaming, with a watercooling  'arctic liquid II" 360 radiator the clockspeeds stay at 5,5 ghz of the performance cores . (temps about 70 degrees)
During a bench run like cinebench, it barely stays below 95 degrees. 

If you want that 5,5 ghz without thottling you will need a serious cpu cooler. 

Also BIG warning: 99% of those "Benchmark" youtube channels are FAKE ! 

 

 

 

I'd trust Gamers Nexus and/or Hardware Unboxed as both do fairly comprehensive testing. 

[Doncho]

AMD became the new Intel.

[Rubber Biscuit]

15 hours ago, TheRBT said:

I was almost ready to pull the trigger on the 13900K but then I saw the tomshardware review. While the 13900K is winning in some games, 5800x3d is still beating it in some others. The most important of them is MSFS!! And its beating it quite handily!

Will we see something similar in DCS?? Because if so, the 7950x3d or whatever will definitely be even better. 

 

 

 

 

This graph means very little, because there is no reference to any specific gaming data.

Each game will score differently depending on game, too bad DCS doesn’t get much attention from the hardware testing YouTubers.

[Rubber Biscuit]

This is one of the better explanations of how CPU’s get bound-up.

 

[TKu]

Hi,

VR/G2/OXR user here. Just ordered 13700k with DDR4-3600 CL16 to improve frametime. I'm coming from 9900k and 6900xt GPU. Major Bottleneck is still related to CPU bound issues, but already working "OK" today.

I hope to get some additional headroom in the single Core speed which DCS so demanding today. Single core performance should be around +30% (synthetic benchmark).

I'll update here as soon as the system is up and running.

[Spectre1986]

Just FYI everyone that's not aware, CPU and GPU utilization percentage tell you somewhere between "very little" and "nothing". You want frame times from the GPU and the frame times from the CPU+RAM, lower are better. You can get these times with a number of free tools like MSI Afterburner (enable it deep in the settings), with paid tools like fpsVR, or even built into DCS. I believe the default is RCTRL+Pause twice, it'll show a block of data. IIRC GPU frame time is just called "Frame Time" (shown in the first line or near it) and CPU+RAM frame time is near the center of the block of info and is labeled "Simulation".

You will need a very complex single player mission or busy multiplayer server to realistically test CPU+RAM performance in DCS. Make sure you add things like MRLS, cluster munitions, and dozens (hundreds with Raptor Lake?) of ground units moving off-road really tax CPU+RAM. Quick start or simple mission testing is pointless and will give bad results.

As usual with DCS World, disabling the little cores and disabling hyper-threading are definitely worth testing too.

I'm very close to upgrading but need the data. Thanks guys.

i7-8086K@5.1Ghz
32GB@3.6GHz
3090@stock
2TB NVMe
Reverb G2
Index

[TKu]

9900k to 13700kf, 6900xt, reverb g2:

It decreased my frametime from 13ms down to 6ms in my current Mission. This results from 45-50fps to 50-60fps (Marinas, low level Helo, many many units spread over the islands(statica and ai), several AI flights, 6x SAM air defense).

Definetly an improvement, but no revolution. 4090 would improve Msaa quality of life.

Further testing in progress.

Edited October 30, 2022 by TKu

[EightyDuce]

I'd be interested to see comparison of 13th gen with DDR4 vs DDR5 (5600+) to see if you get further reduction in crametimes, as the new chipset definitely handles DDR5 better. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by EightyDuce

[LucShep]

13 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

I'd be interested to see comparison of 13th gen with DDR4 vs DDR5 (5600+) to see if you get further reduction in crametimes, as the new chipset definitely handles DDR5 better. 

 

OC3D article: 
https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/intel_13600k_and_13900k_ddr4_vs_ddr5_showdown/1


OC3D video of same article: