reported Changes to scripts fail integrity check again.

[falconzx]

The fact IC breaks even if you join a purescripts disabled, and you have to restart dcs again and again even if you never entered a purescripts enabled server is very annoying and time consuming for people.
I just need it to change my countermeasures preset on Viper and mirage.

We need a fix on this please!

[BIGNEWY]

we do have the IC failure after leaving a server reported and the team will try to resolve

thanks

[Se1ko]

On 11/4/2022 at 1:44 AM, BIGNEWY said:

we do have the IC failure after leaving a server reported and the team will try to resolve

thanks

First up, I do realise that sim bug fixing is a slow and painful process, however, is there any news about a fix for this at all?

As someone that exports displays to a touchscreen, the pure clients thing really sours the experience. Hoggit now have "Pure Scripts" enforced (and I know that it is likely for good reasons) but surely exporting screen displays is not something that can cause an issue???

I liked that with DCS we have had the ability to create our own sim pits and make the game as realistic as possible with what resources we have.

[romeokilo]

Nightmare for me.

Looks like no more hoggit then.

Damn shame, was my favorite server. 

[jonsky7]

11 minutes ago, romeokilo said:

Nightmare for me.

Looks like no more hoggit then.

Damn shame, was my favorite server. 

Why anyone would turn on "Require pure scripts" on a PVE server is beyond me.

Yes, a shame, I like popping in the Hoggit servers every now and then.

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, romeokilo said:

Nightmare for me.

Looks like no more hoggit then.

Damn shame, was my favorite server. 

reach out to the hoggit team on their discord, ask them to turn pure scripts off. 

[Golan Trevize]

8 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

reach out to the hoggit team on their discord, ask them to turn pure scripts off. 

Could the countermeasure programs just simply be white listed on IC? Don't see how someone could be using it to cheat.

[BIGNEWY]

9 minutes ago, Golan Trevize said:

Could the countermeasure programs just simply be white listed on IC? Don't see how someone could be using it to cheat.

I cant discuss cheats in the open forum, but pure client is required sadly. Again it is up to the server what IC level they want to use. 

thank you

[MadKreator]

Ahh man Hoggit enabled pure scripts? That was my go-to for MP. That’s a shame, I will opt to keep helios and my exports. It’d be cool if there way a way for ED to be able to separate parts of the IC system. Another member explained how it works once and it seems to be a more universal system of checks, and not able to have it just look for/exclude specific things. Maybe someday in the future. I’m all for anti-cheating of course, but failing checks for multi-displays/ exporting thats built into the game seems a bit ridiculous. Oh well their servers, their choice, not the end of the world.

[Golan Trevize]

6 hours ago, MadKreator said:

Ahh man Hoggit enabled pure scripts? That was my go-to for MP. That’s a shame, I will opt to keep helios and my exports. It’d be cool if there way a way for ED to be able to separate parts of the IC system. Another member explained how it works once and it seems to be a more universal system of checks, and not able to have it just look for/exclude specific things. Maybe someday in the future. I’m all for anti-cheating of course, but failing checks for multi-displays/ exporting thats built into the game seems a bit ridiculous. Oh well their servers, their choice, not the end of the world.

I have talked to the server devs, they have had to make some tricky stuff in the past to block cheaters and allow innocent mods, but the new system doesn't allow those workarounds anymore, so it's all or nothing. Thanks to griefers, they won't turn off the option.

[Golan Trevize]

13 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I cant discuss cheats in the open forum, but pure client is required sadly. Again it is up to the server what IC level they want to use. 

thank you

There is a misunderstanding there; I wasn't asking about cheats and exploits. I was asking if it's possible (sometime in the future) to white list certain things, add more options for server admins, to select what is included in the IC and what is not. Blanket blocking things is not a good solution, as now we can't even use things that you guys provided for us, like exporting instruments for our home pits, without exposing the whole server to cheats. Which leaves the admins with only the illusion of choice.

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, Golan Trevize said:

There is a misunderstanding there; I wasn't asking about cheats and exploits. I was asking if it's possible (sometime in the future) to white list certain things, add more options for server admins, to select what is included in the IC and what is not. Blanket blocking things is not a good solution, as now we can't even use things that you guys provided for us, like exporting instruments for our home pits, without exposing the whole server to cheats. Which leaves the admins with only the illusion of choice.

There is a need to have an option that does not allow any edits of the DCS code, we have that now with the pure scripts option. 

To allow scripts the server only has to untick the pure scripts option and it will be just like before the pure scripts option. 

[LazyBoot]

On 12/10/2022 at 10:35 AM, jonsky7 said:

Why anyone would turn on "Require pure scripts" on a PVE server is beyond me.

Yes, a shame, I like popping in the Hoggit servers every now and then.

We've had way too many issues with modded weapons being used for griefing in the past to allow weapon mods even if it is a PVE server.

And we have been recently informed that weapon mods now lie under the "pure scripts" setting.

[jonsky7]

3 hours ago, LazyBoot said:

We've had way too many issues with modded weapons being used for griefing in the past to allow weapon mods even if it is a PVE server.

And we have been recently informed that weapon mods now lie under the "pure scripts" setting.

Fair enough, I've personally not seen them so didn't realise it was an issue.

It's a shame as quite a lot of the legit mods wouldn't take much to implement into the actual game files.
In fact some are already there for some aircraft and not in others.
For example, display exports
The JF-17 has in MFCD_init_Left.lua
local default_viewport = try_find_assigned_viewport('JF17_LEFT_MFCD', 'LEFT_MFCD')

Which means in my monitor config file, I can set a viewport called JF17_LEFT_MFCD which is in a different position to LEFT_MFCD and DCS will look for JF17_LEFT_MFCD first and send the export there if it finds it, if not it defaults to the LEFT_MFCD Position.

And it's not just 3rd party developers that do it, the Ka-50 has similar for the Abris
try_find_assigned_viewport("ABRIS","RIGHT_MFCD")

So adding a unique name to the display exports wouldn't take very long to add to the actual game files, I know because I and many more have done it, then modding wouldn't be required for that at least. 

Quite strange considering I've seen promotions for the Winwing Main Instrument Panel which will undoubtedly need a few mods to get the most out of them when not flying an F18..

 

Other's things maybe not so easy, I still have to modify the AiHelper file for the Hind, otherwise I can't see the countermeasures popup on my multi-monitor setup. I do like a transparent controls indicator (suppose I could live without those), and a few other bits and bobs


 

Edited December 11, 2022 by jonsky7

[MadKreator]

14 hours ago, jonsky7 said:

Fair enough, I've personally not seen them so didn't realise it was an issue.

It's a shame as quite a lot of the legit mods wouldn't take much to implement into the actual game files.
In fact some are already there for some aircraft and not in others.
For example, display exports
The JF-17 has in MFCD_init_Left.lua
local default_viewport = try_find_assigned_viewport('JF17_LEFT_MFCD', 'LEFT_MFCD')

Which means in my monitor config file, I can set a viewport called JF17_LEFT_MFCD which is in a different position to LEFT_MFCD and DCS will look for JF17_LEFT_MFCD first and send the export there if it finds it, if not it defaults to the LEFT_MFCD Position.

And it's not just 3rd party developers that do it, the Ka-50 has similar for the Abris
try_find_assigned_viewport("ABRIS","RIGHT_MFCD")

So adding a unique name to the display exports wouldn't take very long to add to the actual game files, I know because I and many more have done it, then modding wouldn't be required for that at least. 

Quite strange considering I've seen promotions for the Winwing Main Instrument Panel which will undoubtedly need a few mods to get the most out of them when not flying an F18..

 

Other's things maybe not so easy, I still have to modify the AiHelper file for the Hind, otherwise I can't see the countermeasures popup on my multi-monitor setup. I do like a transparent controls indicator (suppose I could live without those), and a few other bits and bobs


 

 

100% agree. I use helios, which it a litter of exports to a touchscreen, and I use an 32:9 monitor. In dcs on widescreens, hud lines and mfd displays are fat fuzzy lines, literally unusable on some aircraft without modifying the lua files to thin the lines/ graphics/ text down. My only “mods” are things to make the game function correctly, that I really shouldn’t have to do if widescreen was better supported natively. None of these are cheats by any stretch, no different than anyone with a full blown sim-pit. A lot of us would really like to see ED get a more improvised system in place for IC. And for some users, integrate a little better support for multi-screens/ wides and exports. I totally agree with weapon mods, changing physics, unlimited everything hacks and all that. Real cheaters can suck it. Maybe once the Multicore crunch eases up, even one team member could probably hash out a lot of these things fairly easily.. maybe its not so easy, i don’t really know, not my job. But a few QOL improvements wouldn’t be a bad thing

Edited December 12, 2022 by MadKreator

[Golan Trevize]

22 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

There is a need to have an option that does not allow any edits of the DCS code, we have that now with the pure scripts option. 

To allow scripts the server only has to untick the pure scripts option and it will be just like before the pure scripts option. 

You must be really good at dodgeball. Thanks.

[Se1ko]

On 12/11/2022 at 10:11 PM, BIGNEWY said:

There is a need to have an option that does not allow any edits of the DCS code, we have that now with the pure scripts option. 

To allow scripts the server only has to untick the pure scripts option and it will be just like before the pure scripts option. 

ED, and yourself, are rather cagey when when explaining what this need is. Why is that? Why does it seem to be a big secret (beyond not wanting to share how to exploit the script file to cheat, which I can understand)?

There must be a great deal many people that export views for MFD's to other screens that have don't have any ideas of trying to exploit or cheat DCS, why seemingly create a situation where you are hobbling modders that just want to get more out of the game legitimately and taken the time to do it? They are a loyal fan base of your product.

Furthermore, why is this pure scripts thing so wide ranging and broad that it affects tools like Viacom, or creating export viewports? Can you not have a more targeted approach to integrity checking that looks at stopping people exploiting specific scripts that do affect gameplay as opposed to enforcing an IC that you can barely make a even a simple mod to make your life easier? As one user suggested, why not have server script tools to target specific scripts?

If one was to take a cynical view, it would seemingly appear that ED are locking people out of modding in an attempt to in the future steer users to products such as export apps and MIPS that they may gain profit through partnership with....... 

Happy to be proven wrong (and without the mantra of "you can run a repair and ask the server admin to turn the pure script off")

 

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, Se1ko said:

If one was to take a cynical view, it would seemingly appear that ED are locking people out of modding

 

Why don't you just ask the Server Admins to cater to your need? ... ED just provides the tools, how to use them is up to you and your Server admin.

[Maverick87Shaka]

10 minutes ago, Se1ko said:

If one was to take a cynical view, it would seemingly appear that ED are locking people out of modding in an attempt to in the future steer users to products such as export apps and MIPS that they may gain profit through partnership with....... 

 

 

MIPS and other device like UFC, can still use some export option that is already available built in in DCS or using MOD that doesn't change core engine files, but create export from it.

[Se1ko]

1 minute ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Why don't you just ask the Server Admins to cater to your need? ... ED just provides the tools, how to use them is up to you and your Server admin.

That is the problem. ED have not provided any server admin tools that would cater for such a need and don't seemingly have any plan to provide any. The three IC checks are so broad that in order to fix a specific problem you deny a great many other genuine users of the server that cause no harm. Have a read of Hoggits forums as a case in point.

[BIGNEWY]

12 minutes ago, Se1ko said:

ED, and yourself, are rather cagey when when explaining what this need is. Why is that? Why does it seem to be a big secret (beyond not wanting to share how to exploit the script file to cheat, which I can understand)?

There must be a great deal many people that export views for MFD's to other screens that have don't have any ideas of trying to exploit or cheat DCS, why seemingly create a situation where you are hobbling modders that just want to get more out of the game legitimately and taken the time to do it? They are a loyal fan base of your product.

Furthermore, why is this pure scripts thing so wide ranging and broad that it affects tools like Viacom, or creating export viewports? Can you not have a more targeted approach to integrity checking that looks at stopping people exploiting specific scripts that do affect gameplay as opposed to enforcing an IC that you can barely make a even a simple mod to make your life easier? As one user suggested, why not have server script tools to target specific scripts?

If one was to take a cynical view, it would seemingly appear that ED are locking people out of modding in an attempt to in the future steer users to products such as export apps and MIPS that they may gain profit through partnership with....... 

Happy to be proven wrong (and without the mantra of "you can run a repair and ask the server admin to turn the pure script off")

 

Not being cagey. 

Some people cheat 

a pure script option was needed for servers who dont want to allow edits to game files. 

The server can decide if they want to use pure scripts or not. 

 

[Se1ko]

2 minutes ago, Maverick87Shaka said:

MIPS and other device like UFC, can still use some export option that is already available built in in DCS or using MOD that doesn't change core engine files, but create export from it.

That's fantastic if you have a MIP or UFC, not much help if you have a more homebrew simpit.

[Se1ko]

1 minute ago, BIGNEWY said:

Not being cagey. 

Some people cheat 

a pure script option was needed for servers who dont want to allow edits to game files. 

The server can decide if they want to use pure scripts or not. 

 

Oh yes, I have been on the receiving end of people that cheat, its not fun for anyone and I applaud ED in trying to do something about it. The problem, as stated above, is that if a server wants to try and stop cheating it has to use a function of three available options that is too broad a brushstroke of script protection that denies the server to legitimate users.

[Maverick87Shaka]

12 hours ago, Se1ko said:

Oh yes, I have been on the receiving end of people that cheat, its not fun for anyone and I applaud ED in trying to do something about it. The problem, as stated above, is that if a server wants to try and stop cheating it has to use a function of three available options that is too broad a brushstroke of script protection that denies the server to legitimate users.

I'm not sure remove or change how IC works it's a good idea TBH, but definitely it would be nice if it's possible to "expose" some of the feature like the gauge/display, and make them available.
If every gauges, displays etc has it's own name ( public), everyone will be able to export what they want using the correct procedure of making custom MonitorSetup .lua script inside saved games folder.

EDIT:
I'm also a server admin, and even if it's just a PvE since we have public statistics, its fair to leave integrity check on. But I can understand who wants to enjoy their own simpit.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Maverick87Shaka

[Se1ko]

23 minutes ago, Maverick87Shaka said:

I'm not sure remove or change how IC works it's a good idea TBH, but definitely it would be nice if it's possible to "expose" some of the feature like the gauge/display, and make them available.
If every gauges, displays etc has it's own name ( public), everyone will be able to export what they want using the correct procedure of making custom MonitorSetup .lua script inside saved games folder.

I'm not saying remove IC checks, I am saying make tools for server admins that allow them to have more specific control, rather than the somewhat clumsy feature they have now, which is like using a chainsaw to slice cheese.

For example; Hoggit are saying they have enabled pure scripts because there is a weapons cheat happening that is crashing their servers. Ok, fair enough, no one wants that. The problem (in as much as I understand it) is that the weapons cheat is in no way related to scripts used for cockpit display exports but anyone that has edited a script to simply display an MFD to another display in their simpit are now also kicked off for having an impure script.

The only tool admins have is to either enable pure scripts or not. It doesn't allow them to look at subsets of scripts, or stop people tampering with a weapons based script, or allow the guy with a MFD viewport export that's doing the right thing to use his script while stopping the specific problem.

Its either all vanilla DCS or nothing.

That's what makes it clumsy, especially when you consider that DCS is very well known and regarded not in part due to its legitimate modding community.

I agree with your comment on being able to break out controls and displays as a function of the game being made available. A certain other military flight sim has done it quite successfully.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Se1ko