Any chance for a russian jet?

[Bremspropeller]

17 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

I would think so, too. The Tu-95 is absolutely tragic.

+1!

Proper AI Badgers and Bears (in several versions) would be cool to bump up carrier ops and some land-based scenarios. Same appliesfor a plain-Jane Tu-22.

[upyr1]

4 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

+1!

Proper AI Badgers and Bears (in several versions) would be cool to bump up carrier ops and some land-based scenarios. Same appliesfor a plain-Jane Tu-22.

Better/more naval assets (ships, submarines, shore based missiles, and maritime aircraft) would be awesome. 

[jojyrocks]

22 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Yes, that much is obvious. But, in ED's case, governments are clumsy things at the best of times, so a good third party is needed here.

 

 

I would think so, too. The Tu-95 is absolutely tragic.

 

 

It has been a very loooooong time and still so many 3D models have LOMAC graphics, some of the 3d models are not even in the list of the, " to be updated" models, mostly AI 3D planes like Su-30, Mig 27 etc...I am think that we'll be seeing LOMAC AI assets till 2035 too...

 

I mean, I am not expecting them to make a full on Russian module. But the 3d models...it looks very awkward to see "gimp" level graphics AI plane assets on todays 3D models.

Edited December 10, 2022 by jojyrocks

[Silver_Dragon]

41 minutes ago, jojyrocks said:

 

 

It has been a very loooooong time and still so many 3D models have LOMAC graphics, some of the 3d models are not even in the list of the, " to be updated" models, mostly AI 3D planes like Su-30, Mig 27 etc...I am think that we'll be seeing LOMAC AI assets till 2035 too...

 

I mean, I am not expecting them to make a full on Russian module. But the 3d models...it looks very awkward to see "gimp" level graphics AI plane assets on todays 3D models.

 

Update 3D models has none to do with module productions, ED has continuous update the old AI model but that take time by the complexity level required to reach the actual standars (remember ED has uptating some very old models actually).

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

3 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

 

 

It has been a very loooooong time and still so many 3D models have LOMAC graphics, some of the 3d models are not even in the list of the, " to be updated" models, mostly AI 3D planes like Su-30, Mig 27 etc...I am think that we'll be seeing LOMAC AI assets till 2035 too...

 

I mean, I am not expecting them to make a full on Russian module. But the 3d models...it looks very awkward to see "gimp" level graphics AI plane assets on todays 3D models.

 

Oh I'm totally with you. I'd like to see them brought up to a standard that's not old enough to drink.

[BalticDude]

I hope Deka makes a Pakistani or Chinese J-7 or A/Q-5 Fantan

[irisono]

The Mig-29 (9.12) was indeed developed during the Cold War but its troop deployment was after this era. As user requests and trends confirm, the future of DCS World lies in these Cold War scenarios. Players are getting fed up with BVR battles with countless of fox-3 launches. They want to experience dogfights where you can look your opponent in the eye, feel the performance envelope of your plane and see the beauty of the terrain. Currently ED does a poor job of covering the early days of the Cold War. We need the Mig-17F, Mig-21F-13, Su-7BM, F-104G, Mirage III, and importantly, the Hawker Hunter. New maps like Sinai, Kola and following must of course cover this period (1950-1980).

[F-2]

2 hours ago, irisono said:

The Mig-29 (9.12) was indeed developed during the Cold War but its troop deployment was after this era. As user requests and trends confirm, the future of DCS World lies in these Cold War scenarios. Players are getting fed up with BVR battles with countless of fox-3 launches. They want to experience dogfights where you can look your opponent in the eye, feel the performance envelope of your plane and see the beauty of the terrain. Currently ED does a poor job of covering the early days of the Cold War. We need the Mig-17F, Mig-21F-13, Su-7BM, F-104G, Mirage III, and importantly, the Hawker Hunter. New maps like Sinai, Kola and following must of course cover this period (1950-1980).

Mig-29 entered service in 1983. I think your thinking of the Su-27.

[Seaeagle]

3 hours ago, F-2 said:

Mig-29 entered service in 1983.

Indeed and developed in the latter part of the 70'ies, while the "Cold War" officially ended in 1989.

3 hours ago, F-2 said:

I think your thinking of the Su-27.

Or perhaps he was thinking of its(the MiG-29) induction with Warsaw Pact countries, which often happed several years after it entered service with the Soviet airforce - e.g. if I recall correctly, East Germany got theirs in 1988.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Seaeagle

[irisono]

Zitat

Mig-29 entered service in 1983. I think your thinking of the Su-27.

Yes, of course you are right. But the introduction of the Mig-29 in the Soviet Air Force is not relevant to the so-called Cold War conflicts or proxy wars (e.g. Vietnam, Indo-Pak, Middle East, 1st Gulf War). A large part of DCS users want to simulate scenarios that are as realistic as possible and there the protagonists were the Mig-17/19/21/23, F-4, F-100-series, Mirages, Hunters etc.

[Seaeagle]

1 hour ago, irisono said:

Yes, of course you are right. But the introduction of the Mig-29 in the Soviet Air Force is not relevant to the so-called Cold War conflicts or proxy wars (e.g. Vietnam, Indo-Pak, Middle East, 1st Gulf War). A large part of DCS users want to simulate scenarios that are as realistic as possible and there the protagonists were the Mig-17/19/21/23, F-4, F-100-series, Mirages, Hunters etc.

Eh? - the first Gulf War was in 1990 and the Iraqi airforce had MiG-29s back then.

 

[irisono]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Seaeagle:

Eh? - the first Gulf War was in 1990 and the Iraqi airforce had MiG-29s back then.

 

I meant the first war in the Gulf region known as the Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988. I apologize for this terminological confusion. The Iraqis did use the Mig-29s in the final stages of that war, but with only modest success. For example, on April 7, 1988, Mig-29s attempted to intercept IRIAF F-4Es but the Irani ECM tactics (jamming and using the weaknesses of the Mig-29 radar N019) were very successful. It clearly demonstrated that the LD/SD capability of this by the Soviet Union delivered Mig-29 radar was extremely vulnerable to ECM. The contribution of the Mig-29 in this conflict was very small. The Iraqi Air Force used Mig-21, 23, Su-22 and Mirage F-1EQs with much greater success.

[F-2]

3 hours ago, irisono said:

I meant the first war in the Gulf region known as the Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988. I apologize for this terminological confusion. The Iraqis did use the Mig-29s in the final stages of that war, but with only modest success. For example, on April 7, 1988, Mig-29s attempted to intercept IRIAF F-4Es but the Irani ECM tactics (jamming and using the weaknesses of the Mig-29 radar N019) were very successful. It clearly demonstrated that the LD/SD capability of this by the Soviet Union delivered Mig-29 radar was extremely vulnerable to ECM. The contribution of the Mig-29 in this conflict was very small. The Iraqi Air Force used Mig-21, 23, Su-22 and Mirage F-1EQs with much greater success.

Hey if you remember where you got that could you let me know? I was working on an alt history project and the fact that the Mig is that vulnerable to Vietnam era jammers is a reference I need.

[Seaeagle]

4 hours ago, irisono said:

I meant the first war in the Gulf region known as the Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988. I apologize for this terminological confusion.

No problem - I kind of suspected that you meant the Iran-Iraq war, which is occasionally referred to as the first Gulf war. But then I wouldn't call that a "proxy war" as it had little to do with the Cold war between the superpowers. Iran had been a close ally of the US during the reign of the Shah, but that ended with the Islamic revolution, which occured before the start of the Iran-Iraq war and during this, Iraq was in fact backed by both the Super powers.

4 hours ago, irisono said:

The Iraqis did use the Mig-29s in the final stages of that war, but with only modest success. For example, on April 7, 1988, Mig-29s attempted to intercept IRIAF F-4Es but the Irani ECM tactics (jamming and using the weaknesses of the Mig-29 radar N019) were very successful. It clearly demonstrated that the LD/SD capability of this by the Soviet Union delivered Mig-29 radar was extremely vulnerable to ECM.

Well ok if you say so, but in my experience such individual accounts from that war should be taken with a huge grain of salt  . 

4 hours ago, irisono said:

The contribution of the Mig-29 in this conflict was very small. The Iraqi Air Force used Mig-21, 23, Su-22 and Mirage F-1EQs with much greater success.

Not surprising considering that they had a lot more of those and operated them for a lot longer....it certainly cannot be because the MiG-21 or MiG-23 would be less vulnerable to ECM  .

[irisono]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb F-2:

Hey if you remember where you got that could you let me know? I was working on an alt history project and the fact that the Mig is that vulnerable to Vietnam era jammers is a reference I need.

Source: Farzard Bishop & Tom Cooper, Iran-Iraq War in the Air 1980-1988, Page 266

Primary source: Interviews with IRIAF F-4E pilots from Nojeh AB. They claimed to have used for this mission Israeli-supplied AN/ALQ-119(V) -17 jammer pods.

[F-2]

1 hour ago, irisono said:

Source: Farzard Bishop & Tom Cooper, Iran-Iraq War in the Air 1980-1988, Page 266

Primary source: Interviews with IRIAF F-4E pilots from Nojeh AB. They claimed to have used for this mission Israeli-supplied AN/ALQ-119(V) -17 jammer pods.

Now that I think I of it the Mig-29 was never able to fire off its R-27 in the Gulf or Kosovo in-spite of being in position to do so a few times. The Mig-25 on the other hand with its powerful radar was able to fire off its R-40s on a few occasions.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:05 AM, BalticDude said:

I hope Deka makes a Pakistani or Chinese J-7 or A/Q-5 Fantan

[thedisturbingspaniard]

On 12/7/2022 at 1:12 PM, WinterH said:

But anything red to match with 2000s+ Hornet, Viper, Strike Eagle, Typhoon, Apache Longbow etc doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon.

...and this is the reason why I'm not purchasing any of them. Without a comparable opponent to fight, there's no point and it makes Digital Combat Simulator utterly boring for me.

So I'll continue waiting for Cold-War-Era interesting maps (Vietnam, Korea, pre-1990s Sinai, etc.) or fly thirld-worldish-style conflicts "somewhere in a fictional Africa" where none of those new shiny birds without enemies are expected.

Edited December 17, 2022 by thedisturbingspaniard

[upyr1]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:05 AM, BalticDude said:

I hope Deka makes a Pakistani or Chinese J-7 or A/Q-5 Fantan

That would be awesome 

[WinterH]

On 12/15/2022 at 9:05 AM, BalticDude said:

I hope Deka makes a Pakistani or Chinese J-7 or A/Q-5 Fantan

Yeah these two are my top wanteds from Deka!

[Bremspropeller]

I'm in with the J-7, though I'd prefer it to be an earlier version for usability and stuff. Kind of as a hedge against never having a MiG-21F-13.

[WinterH]

3 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

though I'd prefer it to be an earlier version for usability and stuff.

Nah, I'd much, much rather see a late one with single piece windscreen, double delta wings, and the works, as a really different "other end" of the Fishbed legacy, an early "MiG-21 but painted white" would be highly uninteresting and a missed opportunity quite honestly. I'd rather get the actual MiG variants for the earlier birds. If it isn't at least a double delta, might as well not be made as far as I'm concerned.

[Bremspropeller]

2 hours ago, WinterH said:

Nah, I'd much, much rather see a late one with single piece windscreen, double delta wings, and the works, as a really different "other end" of the Fishbed legacy, an early "MiG-21 but painted white" would be highly uninteresting and a missed opportunity quite honestly. I'd rather get the actual MiG variants for the earlier birds. If it isn't at least a double delta, might as well not be made as far as I'm concerned.

A J-7, F-7A/J-7I and even the F-7B is very close/ close enough to a MiG-21F-13 and actually has relevance on two/three maps we have/ will have, as opposed to the late double-delta variant, which has none and which is basicly a poor man's Jeff.

It's not that I wouldn't like to fly it - it's just a matter of how much value it creates in the greater scheme of things.

[WinterH]

3 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

it's just a matter of how much value it creates in the greater scheme of things.

Hence, late one being the MUCH better choice, as it does in fact create value in being a unique and cool Fishbed derivative that's also been fairly popular in less fortunate airforces.

For similarity to F-13, really, I'd rather like us get F-13 itself.

For me aircraft being interesting for whatever reason will always heavily trump historical relevance, though the definition of interesting is always going to be subjective, perhaps even tenuous at times, I'll admit. I like Fishbeds a lot, and having a super high fidelity rendition of one that got quasi improved pilot ergonomics, a canopy that you can actually see out of, double delta wings with leading edge slats, while still being of the lighter airframe variety of fishbeds, will always be incomparably more desirable to experience than being an exact fit.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "best/most modern version means more interesting", qutie the opposite in fact, I really prefer older stuff, but there are some oddballs like a late J-7 that's just way too interesting to pass on. I'd rather prefer that opportunity not be sacrificed for representing things like Vietnam and Six Day War etc. For that, I'd really rather have us the proper MiG-21F-13 too, perhaps from another studio, or perhaps from the same studio, at another time. Perhaps it doesn't need to be the very latest J-7s, I'd be just happy with earlier "Phython-3 but Chinesium" equipped, double-delta + high lift devices variant with or without single piece canopy. But honestly, why leave the nice canopy out either :P. Yes, it would be an 2000s aircraft, that is in fact a warmed-over 80s-90ish aircraft at best, and I'm just happy with coming up with scenarious where I can get it to somewhat work, plausibility be damned in this particular case  I'd have more fun in a warmed over 80s-90s aircraft, than most proper 2000s aircraft anyway

[legitscoper]

On 12/7/2022 at 11:36 AM, bies said:

It depends what do you mean by Russian?

The Soviet Union 1922-1991? Yes. Many Soviet aircrafts are in DCS already. MiG-15, MiG-19, MiG-21, Mi-8, Mi-24. And many more are coming being already developed MiG-17, MiG-23, Su-17.

Or The Russian Federation 1991-2022? No. Russian aircrafts won't be allowed due to extremely prohibitive Russian law and i guess during the war they became even more paranoid - ED even had to cancel early 1980s Soviet era MiG-29 9.12. Probably they will never be any Russian 2000s fighter in DCS. Surely not modeled to have anything in common with the real aircraft.

 

Yeah my bad, I meant soviet, of course there is no chance for a Russian one, but Soviet? Pretty old stuff

Edited December 19, 2022 by legitscoper
copied 2x same text