JASDF F-4/RF-4 Phantoms

[Gianky]

13 hours ago, F-2 said:

One think I love about JASDF airplanes is they look factory fresh all the time.

Yeah, I was impressed, especially by the cockpit, so clean! It looks like the devs decided to skip the dirt and wear textures!

[Admiral_ZIPANGU]

14 hours ago, DSplayer said:

Damn pretty hard to find good imagery of the cockpits of the EJ/EJ Kais. Btw anyone know what that display to the top right was for in the WSOpit of the EJ?

I believe you are referring to the display shown on the right side of this image, which is probably one of the equipment used for armament testing. This aircraft spent most of its time from commissioning to retirement in the Air Development and Test Wing (ATDW) and participated in numerous test programs. In particular, a missile-shaped camera pod was used during the testing of the original Japanese AAM-3 missile, and I suspect that this display may be intended to show that camera image.

I will eventually talk to someone who has been involved with that aircraft.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Admiral_ZIPANGU

[Admiral_ZIPANGU]

On 2/4/2023 at 5:29 AM, Cobra847 said:

Personally I find the F-4EJ to be one of the coolest aspects of DCS: F-4E!

We'll be introducing a Japanese pilot option post-EA release as well

The Japanese users around me are very excited about your comments. They are very excited because Japanese aircraft are unique and hard to find someone who can reproduce them. Some are willing to provide photos if you need them. I am in Hamamatsu and can go see the world's last production aircraft (#440) every weekend, so if you need cockpit photos, I'll be there in a heartbeat.
Among the existing EJs, #301 at Gifu Air Base is kept in very good condition. He should still be in the hangar.
In addition to the Air Park in Hamamatsu, EJ Kai is scheduled to be exhibited at the Kakamigahara Air & Space Museum in Gifu in the future, and both are displayed in almost perfect condition.

The Air Self-Defense Force has previously agreed to record audio for a game called WarThunder. There may be room for negotiation. For your information.

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Admiral_ZIPANGU

[DSplayer]

55 minutes ago, Admiral_ZIPANGU said:

The Japanese users around me are very excited about your comments. They are very excited because Japanese aircraft are unique and hard to find someone who can reproduce them. Some are willing to provide photos if you need them. I am in Hamamatsu and can go see the world's last production aircraft (#440) every weekend, so if you need cockpit photos, I'll be there in a heartbeat.
Among the existing EJs, #301 at Gifu Air Base is kept in very good condition. He should still be in the hangar.
In addition to the Air Park in Hamamatsu, EJ Kai is scheduled to be exhibited at the Kakamigahara Air & Space Museum in Gifu in the future, and both are displayed in almost perfect condition.

The Air Self-Defense Force has previously agreed to record audio for a game called WarThunder. There may be room for negotiation. For your information.

 

 

Not going to lie, I would absolutely love a DMM collaboration with HB to create an authentic, true to life simulation of the F-4EJ and EJ Kai. Since DMM was able to basically provide a lot of the information regarding the EJ/EJ Kai’s weapons and systems for WT’s basic model, I think something can be done to make one for DCS.

[Admiral_ZIPANGU]

1 hour ago, DSplayer said:

Not going to lie, I would absolutely love a DMM collaboration with HB to create an authentic, true to life simulation of the F-4EJ and EJ Kai. Since DMM was able to basically provide a lot of the information regarding the EJ/EJ Kai’s weapons and systems for WT’s basic model, I think something can be done to make one for DCS.

To be honest, I can't expect DMM, who is the Japan contact for WarThunder, to accept that proposal, but it's true that we need a contact in Japan for coverage. Japan is too far for the developers of HeatblurSims. And the unique language is one of the factors that raise the hurdles. (Conversely, many Japanese have difficulty with languages other than Japanese.)

JASDF has a history of cooperating with interviews if it determines that they do not intrude excessively on defense secrets and that it contributes to its own public relations activities. My guess is that with the F-4EJ, there is the possibility of covering all aspects, including avionics, but on the other hand, the F-4EJ Kai shares some equipment with the active F-15J. In addition, since the J/APR-6 RWR is still a highly confidential piece of equipment, I believe they will refuse to provide the materials necessary for detailed reproduction. We won't know until we actually talk about this, but if we can propose it as a valuable tool for public relations activities for the Air Self-Defense Force, which is having trouble securing personnel, the possibility may come into view.

[F-2]

3 hours ago, Admiral_ZIPANGU said:

The Japanese users around me are very excited about your comments. They are very excited because Japanese aircraft are unique and hard to find someone who can reproduce them. Some are willing to provide photos if you need them. I am in Hamamatsu and can go see the world's last production aircraft (#440) every weekend, so if you need cockpit photos, I'll be there in a heartbeat.
Among the existing EJs, #301 at Gifu Air Base is kept in very good condition. He should still be in the hangar.
In addition to the Air Park in Hamamatsu, EJ Kai is scheduled to be exhibited at the Kakamigahara Air & Space Museum in Gifu in the future, and both are displayed in almost perfect condition.

The Air Self-Defense Force has previously agreed to record audio for a game called WarThunder. There may be room for negotiation. For your information.

 

 

JASDF allowed recording for ace combat 04 too. Is there a Japanese dcs community? I’m mean I’m sure there are Japanese dcs players but is there a place they gather online? I’m interested in their plight.

[Admiral_ZIPANGU]

1 hour ago, F-2 said:

JASDF allowed recording for ace combat 04 too. Is there a Japanese dcs community? I’m mean I’m sure there are Japanese dcs players but is there a place they gather online? I’m interested in their plight.

There are a certain number of Japanese communities. If you look at the multi-server, you can see that the Japanese community has multiple servers.

For a long time, we had no choice but to put Japanese skins on similar aircraft. If it's still an F-86F, it's not much different from Japan's, but there's no F-104 or F-4, and the F-15J has no choice but to use the FC3's F-15C, and the F-2 is the F- 16 is substituted.
Even in WW2, there is a current situation where the development of even the famous Zero fighter is postponed because the Japanese manual cannot be read. In the first place, JASDF's materials are strictly managed even if they are old, and they are rarely available, so detailed simulations are extremely difficult. There are not many Japanese programmers, so it will be difficult to form a team.

That's why the possibility of the F-4EJ is so exciting to us. The F-4EJ is the JASDF's longest-running aircraft, and the first aircraft continued to fly for 50 years from 1971. It is also a familiar model for us Japanese. Without a doubt, when the F-4E is released, most of us Japanese will be flying in JASDF skins.

I would appreciate it if you could at least include the JASDF skin from the beginning of the release for Japanese people.

[LanceCriminal86]

It's pretty doubtful an EJ would be pursued with the already large/growing list of modules and variants that are being supported by HB. With the differences in systems, slats, and other changes from the USAF blocks it seems it would be like developing a whole standalone module.

Adding some altered pilots with Japanese flight gear and as detailed skins as possible should be the limits of expectations.

[Kalasnkova74]

14 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

It's pretty doubtful an EJ would be pursued with the already large/growing list of modules and variants that are being supported by HB. With the differences in systems, slats, and other changes from the USAF blocks it seems it would be like developing a whole standalone module.

Adding some altered pilots with Japanese flight gear and as detailed skins as possible should be the limits of expectations.

Agreed. I don’t want to present the idea an F-4EJ isn’t welcome- I’d certainly like the module- but it would need to be a standalone module to be done correctly. They’re “hard wing” F-4s so the flight model would have to be redone. The standard F-4EJ doesn’t have as much A2G capability as equivalent USAF versions while the “Kai” variant has ASM and JDAM compatibility, plus the upgraded radar. 
 

All these changes mean skins and appearance packages are probably what HB can afford to include, at least in the short term.

[DSplayer]

2 hours ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

Agreed. I don’t want to present the idea an F-4EJ isn’t welcome- I’d certainly like the module- but it would need to be a standalone module to be done correctly. They’re “hard wing” F-4s so the flight model would have to be redone. The standard F-4EJ doesn’t have as much A2G capability as equivalent USAF versions while the “Kai” variant has ASM and JDAM compatibility, plus the upgraded radar. 
 

All these changes mean skins and appearance packages are probably what HB can afford to include, at least in the short term.

The standard F-4EJ got some (if not all) it's A/G capabilities back later on in their careers. The EJ Kai however did get the additional weapons (possibly ASM-2, GCS-1, etc.) but it did not get JDAM capabilities and was only mounted onto an EJ Kai for festival purposes.

Edited February 9, 2023 by DSplayer

[Kalasnkova74]

1 hour ago, DSplayer said:

The standard F-4EJ got some (if not all) it's A/G capabilities back later on in their careers. The EJ Kai however did get the additional weapons (possibly ASM-2, GCS-1, etc.) but it did not get JDAM capabilities and was only mounted onto an EJ Kai for festival purposes.

 

I stand corrected on the JDAM. My source was this article from TWZ, and they usually do their homework on such matters. 
 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37742/so-long-samurai-japan-bids-farewell-to-its-final-frontline-phantoms

[Bananabrai]

2 minutes ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

I stand corrected on the JDAM. My source was this article from TWZ, and they usually do their homework on such matters. 
 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37742/so-long-samurai-japan-bids-farewell-to-its-final-frontline-phantoms

Hopefully someone does that skin:

really nice one!

[Admiral_ZIPANGU]

2 hours ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

I stand corrected on the JDAM. My source was this article from TWZ, and they usually do their homework on such matters. 
 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37742/so-long-samurai-japan-bids-farewell-to-its-final-frontline-phantoms

The JDAM and Paveway were introduced to the Air Self-Defense Force in 2015. And the F-4EJ upgrade began in 1989. It is hard to believe that Japan would modify a soon-to-be retired fighter jet to be JDAM-compatible.
If JDAM-compatible modifications were to be made, flight tests would be conducted at ADTW in Gifu. However, the Phantom has never flown equipped with JDAM.

I often see images of Phantom with JDAM on the ground, but JDAM is not available at TER.  Additionally, a Phantom with JDAM was also displayed at the 2018 Gifu Air Base Air Festival with JDAM installed, but that aircraft was an unmodified EJ (37-8318). Just because EJ kai had JDAM on the ground does not mean that it can even be operational.

As a Japanese, I could not overlook this misunderstanding.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Admiral_ZIPANGU

[F-2]

ASM-2 is still a beast of an antiship missile though for a phantom while AAM-3 is supposedly a big step up from AIM-9L.

[Admiral_ZIPANGU]

The AAM-3 is compatible with the AIM-9L. If the DCS:F-4E classic era can be equipped with the AIM-9L, I would like to see the AAM-3 as an option. Captive is good enough.

Personally, I would appreciate it if you could work on an early F-4E without the front edge slats someday.

[Aussie_Mantis]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:29 PM, Kalasnkova74 said:

The leading edge slats were included on new build USAF F-4Es by 1972. The final new build Mitsubishi F-4EJ (and the final Phantom II built) was delivered in 1981. The feature was certainly available during the JASDF’s tenure. 

the build approval for the F-4EJs was far earlier than 1970, which is when the F-4Es slats were tested on the YF-4E.

[captain_dalan]

JASDF Phantoms? Heck yeah! The prettiest non Navy F-4's to have ever graced the skies if you ask me (which i know you don't) 

[1130]

Would be great to see a Phantom with HUD on it, feeling the mixture of "Ages and Technologies"  EJ-KAI or F-4/2000!!!!!

[aaronwhite]

On 11/30/2022 at 3:38 PM, RevampedGrunt said:

F-4EJ also never had the slat modifications. It won't stop me from using JASDF livery once it releases though.

They look too good to not use them. I'll happily fly the JASDF over Georgia and tell myself "They've thrown their entire history of self-defense away to assist the US in operations in Georgia" just as an excuse to fly those liveries. 

[Nealius]

I'm trying to dig further into the EJ's usage but most Japanese sources I find are quite shallow, not going into the details of missile/bomb variants that would have or could have been used. So far all I've found out are:

-Neither EJ or EJ Kai had AAR capability
-EJ did not have A2G capability, as it was part of the Kai upgrade
-EJ did not have a gun
-AIM-9L and AIM-7F were primary EJ Kai A2A weaponry (ignoring AAM-x as we don't have those in DCS)
-Mk82 LDGP, CBU-87, and FFAR were available for EJ Kai A2G weaponry (ignoring ASM-x and GCS-x as we don't have those in DCS)
-Centerline "High-G" tank most commonly used

What I would like to know:

-Did EJ use AIM-9B (or earlier variants) and AIM-7E or E-2? Or did it use the later -9L and -7F?
-Does Japan use variants of the Mk82, like Snakeye or AIR?
-Does Japan use other Mk80 series bombs, like the -81, -83, and -84?
-What is the "High-G" tank, and how is it different than the "Sargent Fletcher" tank we have in DCS?

Edited June 16 by Nealius

[markturner1960]

It would be good to have a JASDF specific set of loadouts referencing the above from Nealius. I guess we can meantime make and save a loadout to match

 

[G.J.S]

9 hours ago, Nealius said:

-What is the "High-G" tank, and how is it different than the "Sargent Fletcher" tank we have in DCS?

 

The “High-G” tank is just an external tank from an F-15, it has higher stress limits than the Fletchers. 
 

*edit-

Meant to add, the F-15 tank is only for centreline use on the F-4, not wing.

Edited June 16 by G.J.S
Additional

[Nealius]

1 hour ago, markturner1960 said:

It would be good to have a JASDF specific set of loadouts referencing the above from Nealius.

I have the following configs depicted in a book about the EJ/Kai (published 2005).

A2A configs from left to right: QRA, CAP, Full load, Aerial gunnery (towed target), ACM training (though typically they only loaded one captive missile).

A2G configs from left to right: ASM, rockets, bombs (note MERs on inboard pylons), bombs/self-escort.

Not depicted is the standard RF-4EJ load, which is two wing tanks, ALQ-131 on left inboard pylon, sidewinder rails removed from both pylons, LOROP pod centerline.