solved Cold start issues/feedback

[Bagpipe]

IGNORE THIS PART NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG 

Since the recent update I have excitedly reinstalled the module to try out the temp simulation from cold start but now I have managed to get it to start once and then it cut out and won't start again even if I reload the miz, load a new miz or really do anything at all. 

First couple of attempts did nothing when the starter button was pressed.
Third or Fourth attempt worked, got it running, warmed up, started testing then took the throttle too far back and choked it out. 
It has not restarted in any mission since.
I am painstakingly following the extremely simple start-up checklist to the letter each time and the prop just will not crank when the starter button is pressed.

I am clicking to open the starter button cover (no keybind). Possibly worth noting as I saw there was an issue with the keybind function reported recently.

The front and back seat's magneto switches are not sync'd by default. Could this be an issue?

Is there some kind of a persistence system being worked into the module that is preventing it from working after a mission restart?

I am not running any mods at all so it's not that either.

@Flappieare there known issues that the devs are aware of and if so could you let me know?

EDIT: tested the flap cover keybind too and it is still broken. I can open it using the "toggle" bind but it won't close using either "toggle" or "CLOSE" binds nor will "OPEN" open it etc. I am just wondering if the flap cover logic is preventing the starter button from being "pressed"?

IGNORE THIS PART NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Bagpipe

[Flappie]

52 minutes ago, Bagpipe said:

Is there some kind of a persistence system being worked into the module that is preventing it from working after a mission restart?

Hi! No, there is no such thing as aircraft-state persistence between game sessions in DCS. I think it's either caused by a conflicting button or axis, or some broken game files.

First things first, does the autostart procedure works for you? (RWin + Home)

Either way, please reproduce the issue, exit the mission, save the track and attach it here.

[Bagpipe]

19 hours ago, Flappie said:

Hi! No, there is no such thing as aircraft-state persistence between game sessions in DCS. I think it's either caused by a conflicting button or axis, or some broken game files.

First things first, does the autostart procedure works for you? (RWin + Home)

Either way, please reproduce the issue, exit the mission, save the track and attach it here.

I ran a quick repair. Will run the slow repair (groans) and check keybinds and see if it helps.
If not I will post a track, cheers

EDIT: omg it was the air cock. *insert expletives ad nauseum*. Clearly the one time i got it running i remembered to open the valve 

Please delete post to save my precious ego 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Bagpipe

[Flappie]

15 minutes ago, Bagpipe said:

Please delete post to save my precious ego 
 

Your ego may be wounded now, but it might get boosted someday when someone else with the same issue will find this thread and thank you.

Thanks for your feedback.

[Bagpipe]

27 minutes ago, Flappie said:

Your ego may be wounded now, but it might get boosted someday when someone else with the same issue will find this thread and thank you.

Thanks for your feedback.

Hi, I'm a different guy, totally not the same guy as posted above ...

My Yak happens to be starting fine , however, I am finding that the oil temps continue to max out regardless of flap settings etc and that I do not have to prime at all in order to get a perfect start.

I take it there is still work ongoing on the systems?

yaktest.trk

Edited December 23, 2022 by Bagpipe

[Flappie]

Hi different guy!

I don't know the plane at all. Bear with me if I say silly things. I tried it and I get the same result while on the ground: with oil radiator open, the oil temp wont cool down, but it sounds normal to me since I had no air speed.

I then took off and I tried again with oil flap closed or open: this time I could see the oil temp changing. By the way, oil temp is the top gauge, water cylinder temp is below it. Please check my track.

As for the rest:

• No need to prime the engine for perfect engine start -> reported earlier
• Engine not failing when temperature goes beyond 300°C -> reported ealier

 

YAK52 oil temp.trk

Edited December 23, 2022 by Flappie
cylinder temp, I stand corrected

[Bagpipe]

56 minutes ago, Flappie said:

Hi different guy!

I don't know the plane at all. Bear with me if I say silly things. I tried it and I get the same result while on the ground: with oil radiator open, the oil temp wont cool down, but it sounds normal to me since I had no air speed.

I then took off and I tried again with oil flap closed or open: this time I could see the oil temp changing. By the way, oil temp is the top gauge, water temp is below it. Please check my track.

As for the rest:

• No need to prime the engine for perfect engine start -> reported earlier
• Engine not failing when temperature goes beyond 300°C -> reported ealier

 

YAK52 oil temp.trk 965.04 kB · 0 downloads

The issue now is that you still cannot make it through the run up test checklist provided without exceeding the suggested parameters/temperatures.
Which indicates something is still not being simulated adequately. Would the prop wash provide some air flow through the oil cooler when opened during a run up test?
There has to be some reason that you can do it fine in the real Yak but not quite in the DCS Yak.

I wonder if the weather settings, wind etc, would have an impact. Will have to play around in the editor to test that I guess.

Will watch your track this evening 
 

[gulredrel]

5 hours ago, Flappie said:

By the way, oil temp is the top gauge, water temp is below it.

Just to clearify, it's an air and oil cooled engine. So no water temp. Triple gauge top is oil temp, the single gauge is cylinder head temp.

[gulredrel]

Hi @Flappie,

oil temp stuck is fixed in OB, but I guess there need to be some tweaks to oil temp behavior.

My mission was set to 19°C OAT at Beslan, see track file attached. On the ground with oil and cooling shutters open I could maintain temps. Took off with all wide open and than reduced RPM to 70% RPM so max. continuous, I think.

Trying to shut the oil cooler I got immediate rise in oil temp. Given, that there are some liters within the oil system circulating through engine and oil cooler, I can't imagine, there is such a quick rise in temp directly when shutting the oil cooler.

Even reducing to 64%  RPM I had to have the oil cooler relatively wide open to get cooling at 240 km/h.

Or is the cooling system so bad in warmer climate, that you need to have the shutters wide open? When time permits, I'll try with less OAT to see, If I can keep temps down in lower cruise power settings when oil cooler is closed.

Edit: @Flappie just a thought, maybe you can talk to the devs. The manual states oil INLET temp (I guess measured before entering the engine?). In the other warbirds, it's not inlet temp, so the normal oil temps are significantly higher. Maybe it's just a wrong value on the gauge and that's why it is always so high?

Regards

Jens

Yak-52_oil_temp.trk

Edited December 24, 2022 by gulredrel

[Bagpipe]

21 hours ago, gulredrel said:

Hi @Flappie,

oil temp stuck is fixed in OB, but I guess there need to be some tweaks to oil temp behavior.

 

Out of interest, have you attempted to do the run up test at all?

I cannot get half way through it without sending the oil temp off the gauge.

[gulredrel]

I did the runup prior to take off. It is highly dependent on OAT. I also did a cold start and warmed up intil 40°C oil prior to runup check. Never tried hot ramp start. Don't know oil temp at hot start.

[Bagpipe]

On 12/25/2022 at 10:26 AM, gulredrel said:

I did the runup prior to take off. It is highly dependent on OAT. I also did a cold start and warmed up intil 40°C oil prior to runup check. Never tried hot ramp start. Don't know oil temp at hot start.

yeah i have not tried hot start, all have been cold start and allowing the oil to heat to 40+ prior to runup tests. 
I guess for now i just avoid the runup tests and see how it copes without. 
I feel like the tests overheat the oil and once it is past a point there is no saving it

[gulredrel]

I don't think that spark plug fouling, magneto problems or rpm governor faults are simulated or randomly configured. So doing no runup will not prevent you from flying.

For being a training plane, it would be really nice to have some real world cylinder head and oil temp simulation. I can't imagine, that the plane going 64 % rpm with 230 km/h needs full open oil shutter to keep the oil temp within limit with OAT 20°C. I watched some cockpit videos where OAT definitely was not around freezing and oil temp was about 50°C when they did some aerobatics at 70 % or 82 % rpm.

[hazzer]

On 12/28/2022 at 12:33 PM, gulredrel said:

I don't think that spark plug fouling, magneto problems or rpm governor faults are simulated or randomly configured. So doing no runup will not prevent you from flying.

For being a training plane, it would be really nice to have some real world cylinder head and oil temp simulation. I can't imagine, that the plane going 64 % rpm with 230 km/h needs full open oil shutter to keep the oil temp within limit with OAT 20°C. I watched some cockpit videos where OAT definitely was not around freezing and oil temp was about 50°C when they did some aerobatics at 70 % or 82 % rpm.

That would be great. It feels like the engine simulation is not as advanced as it could be. For all aircraft (jet and piston).

[gulredrel]

Digging up that threat. Just did a short flight with the 2.8.8 OB and the changed oil cooling behavior.

This is much more reasonable now. With an OAT of around 18°C I was able to do warmup, runup, takeoff and cruise flight without the oil temp going boiling.

Could almost fully close the oil cooler door with 64% rpm and I was able to mange the oil temp at around 240 km/h with no problem to stay in the green.

Thanks @BIGNEWY and @NineLine for not forgetting the Yak.

[Bagpipe]

On 8/18/2023 at 5:47 PM, gulredrel said:

Digging up that threat. Just did a short flight with the 2.8.8 OB and the changed oil cooling behavior.

This is much more reasonable now. With an OAT of around 18°C I was able to do warmup, runup, takeoff and cruise flight without the oil temp going boiling.

Could almost fully close the oil cooler door with 64% rpm and I was able to mange the oil temp at around 240 km/h with no problem to stay in the green.

Thanks @BIGNEWY and @NineLine for not forgetting the Yak.

Thanks for the update, I just reinstalled the Yak the other day so will check it out!