Ka50 insted of ka52?

[LupinYonder]

Hi ! Just a quick question, really don't want to start another whingeing "i want this aircraft/feature WTF!"

 

I was just curious if the devs chose to represent the Ka-50 instead of the Ka-52 because they had more data on Ka-50 rather than the more modern Ka-52 or was it a personal love of the chopper ? or some other reason, maybe they didnt want to start witha two seater...

 

P.S. Love the game, would'nt change a thing ( well i would but i have no complaints )

[GGTharos]

Data is the main reason - the one seater/two seater might also be a reason.

[LupinYonder]

Thanx Tharos for quick reply and tbh was the reason i suspected, im also guessing thats why the ah-64 being modeled in a future release is not the ah-64d longbow version.

 

On one side point to all who might read this, i very much doubt that any vehicle with modern/current combat systems or vehicles related to tactically sensitive data will be modeled in DCS...........so stop asking for f-22 ;-)

Edited January 21, 2009 by LupinYonder

[S7_Viper]

I read in a post from one of the Devs that ED will only make sims that have the FULL plans of the aircraft released to the public. I would imagine there are still classified parts of the Longbow that they could not properly sim.

 

While I want for it, I am glad that ED has the integrity to model them accuratly and completly. Even to the point of not guessing!

[Zembla]

I read in a post from one of the Devs that ED will only make sims that have the FULL plans of the aircraft released to the public. I would imagine there are still classified parts of the Longbow that they could not properly sim.

 

 

From what I understand, what you're saying is only half true. Certain parts of the Ka-50 are still classified, as f.ex. an IFF system, or something to that effect. At least that was mentioned a few times in some posts by some ED representatives.

 

Or my memory could be failing me, and they indeed have the full data of the plane, or are allowed to recreate the plane according to the full data.

 

I think there's also an element of synergy involved. More specifically, I gather a plane is more likely to be modeled/featured in a DCS release, if both the military and the entertainment division of ED can both work on that project. So also the military's desktop simulation projects will be a factor there.

 

As with anything, I could be wrong :)

 

-Z

[geogob]

I wonder how you could correctly model the Ka-52 in DCS with the same level of realism the Ka-50 is modeled. Same goes for any two seat aircraft. The only way to manage this would be through a strictly multi-player system that requires two players to fly the aircraft at all time. I doubt the AI could cut in for the job.

[Ragtag]

Well, Janes did the excellent Apache longbow games over a decade ago...they were complex and excellent simulations. I'm confident that ED could make an excellent Apache simulation. There are always some military secrets that never makes it in games but that doesn't mean the game will be bad. That happend to Janes F/A-18... a few things in the cockpit had to be removed as requested by the Military. And still it's one of the best combat flight sims i've ever played :)

 

I still have my Janes Collection :D

[Sealpup]

Well, Janes did the excellent Apache longbow games over a decade ago...

 

Janes had a level of access that a Russian-based company like Eagle could only dream of. I also have this feeling that Janes used manufacturer's propoganda for sources for some of their modelling, as I swear the targetting and datalinking functions worked exactly the same as depicted in the sales videos in the sim's 'video library'.

[71st_Mastiff]

From what I understand, what you're saying is only half true. Certain parts of the Ka-50 are still classified, as f.ex. an IFF system, or something to that effect. At least that was mentioned a few times in some posts by some ED representatives.

 

Or my memory could be failing me, and they indeed have the full data of the plane, or are allowed to recreate the plane according to the full data.

 

I think there's also an element of synergy involved. More specifically, I gather a plane is more likely to be modeled/featured in a DCS release, if both the military and the entertainment division of ED can both work on that project. So also the military's desktop simulation projects will be a factor there.

 

As with anything, I could be wrong :)

 

-Z

 

An IFF system can still be implemented if not militarily but civilian wise. We don't need military specs for an IFF system if some one knows how to program a data relay friend or foe frequency is set up kind of like IID just basic understanding of these types of systems. Could Work.:book:

[LIONPRIDE]

In the same manner as they will model Apache! In fact Ka-52 will be far better machine in DCS than old and backward in many aspects Ka-50. Note Ka-52 have FLIR and proper ECM suite at least for Russian standards.

 

 

Guess they sat around a board-room table and just settled on an aircraft that was popular (to them) and best mimicked how the general census would be 'playing' ... one player=one seater.

 

The 52 wouldn't be much harder to model for these talented folks. There's just a lot of redunacny in the cockpit. It makes it look intimidating. The targeting systems would be a bit more advanced but the same leanring curve we have now. THe 52 has been done a few times already ... so I'm all for a serious Apache sim. As long as it's the latest variant. I hate the A-model ... *sigh* . Say it with me .. "L-O-N-G-B-O-W" .... :thumbup:

 

I hear all this talk of the A-10, but I found an old video of JIM Mackonochie and he mentions the Apache coming out before the A-10 ... hmmm.

 

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[haigotron]

i sometimes fly like a ka-52 :lol:, sitting back at 8-9 km from the target and just coordinating targets and attack orders to my wingmen... lol

 

actually, once i shot down a georgian mi-24 from afar, as it got close behind my wingmen, who were too busy to realize it had placed itself behind them... (it was in that mission called "over the other side"...or something"

 

 

 

My hypothesis is as follows: ED will include in the future modules those planes and heloes which were already made for military - like A-10C. Maybe DCS: Ka-50 is also some military flight-sim descendant?

[ericinexile]

I think it was AirTito who said that one gets the impression with the Ka50 of something of a work in progress that was never fully made it past testing. Assuming that the sim is accurate, that is true in my experience. I notice it most with the awkward and limited communication between the ABRIS and the PVI-800. Many of the complaints we have might very well mirror the complaints that the handful of existing Ka50 pilots have as well.

 

The least amount of guesswork on EDs' part, the better. Leave guessing and a full sensor suite to EECH. I want to learn to work around the limitations of the machine I've been given.

 

Smokin' Hole

Edited January 21, 2009 by ericinexile

[LupinYonder]

I really don't think they will model the longbow or the Ka-52 for the reasons stated at the beginning of this thread if anyone bothered to read it ( im looking at you LIONPRIDE ). These systems are in use by the military of various countries and obviously it would be a mistake to make the most intimate knowlage of these aircraft available to anyone.

 

That is why IMHO ED will only model aircraft that are not current ( or at least a little out of date ) or not considered sensitive by their respective military and governments.

[GGTharos]

I hear all this talk of the A-10, but I found an old video of JIM Mackonochie and he mentions the Apache coming out before the A-10 ... hmmm.

 

 

I'll resolve any doubts right now:

 

A-10C is coming next.

 

Nothing is currently known what comes after the A-10C - it is pure speculation. Period.

[Slayer]

Didn't Wags used to work for Janes way back in time? Seems like I remember reading something about this.

[GGTharos]

Yes, Wags produced JF-18 and I think JF-15 also.

[EvilBivol-1]

The Ka-52 does not yet exist as a standard production aircraft in Russian military service. In fact, it's not certain what equipment it will have if it ever reaches service. Simply, there is not much to model at this point, let alone a few years a go, when ED first began to focus on the Kamov.

[geogob]

Nothing is currently known what comes after the A-10C - it is pure speculation. Period.

 

Ah! srsly? And I had put so much hope on those hot air balloon rumors. :(

:megalol:

[LIONPRIDE]

I really don't think they will model the longbow or the Ka-52 for the reasons stated at the beginning of this thread if anyone bothered to read it ( im looking at you LIONPRIDE ). These systems are in use by the military of various countries and obviously it would be a mistake to make the most intimate knowlage of these aircraft available to anyone.

 

That is why IMHO ED will only model aircraft that are not current ( or at least a little out of date ) or not considered sensitive by their respective military and governments.

 

 

And it's just your opinion ...

 

I did read the thread, so bugger off you ___________ . Don't assume because I put my opinion in, as you did, that I didn't read it. Companies come out with sims with current A/C in them all the time. Are they accurate ... maybe, maybe not. To assume that DCS got all the info on the Kamov they modeled here is pretty naive on your part ... Looking at you Tough Guy (Lupin).

 

Didn't we get enough of the daggon' A-10 in the LockOn series ... ? Really ...

 

 

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Edited January 22, 2009 by LIONPRIDE

[Chillspider]

thats how i felt at first i was bummed because the whole time i though apache was first because of that interview but what at least changes my feeling is that it will be the a-10c which has some cool stuff. I was thinking it would be nice to have a russian chopper then a US chopper come out 1 and 2 but A-10 will still be fun. I agree though i thought at first "why, we just had the a10 in lomac" but after what i've seen in Blackshark im sure Warthog will be worth it as well. Ill be looking forward to all the modules.

[LupinYonder]

And it's just your opinion ...

 

I did read the thread, so bugger off you ___________ . Don't assume because I put my opinion in, as you did, that I didn't read it. Companies come out with sims with current A/C in them all the time. Are they accurate ... maybe, maybe not. To assume that DCS got all the info on the Kamov they modeled here is pretty naive on your part ... Looking at you Tough Guy (Lupin).

 

Didn't we get enough of the daggon' A-10 in the LockOn series ... ? Really ...

 

 

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Erm Lionpride, i was not trying to piss anyone off its just the impression i got from your first post sounded like you came in half way through the dicussion because you where arguing how easy it would be to model ka-52. Anyway plz explain how I am naive ? :huh:i never said they got all their info from Kamov but what are you implying? that they had some secret agent inteligence devision at ED? ( actually that would be kinda cool ):D

[CE_Mikemonster]

Some things have to be guesswork I suppose, even when you have the other 99% of the info. Anyone who's played Falcon 4.0 without IFF and then played with IFF can probably testify with me that it makes a big difference on gameplay. Well it did to me!

[DTWD]

I thought there were some WIP screens shots of the Apache VC cockpit in this forum somewhere? Is it being modelled just in case it comes after the A10?

 

Oh and I would just like to say I think I would prefer the 52 over the apache if it's up for a decision. I have to admit that a) I prefer helecopters and b) I prefer russian aircraft. They just seem more "real", I don't know what it is about them.

[CE_Mikemonster]

The ergonomics seem a lot different, lol

[Raven434th]

Seems to me the issue is plain.the ka-50 works in conjunction with the ka-52's, the 52's being command and control,and the 50's the worker bees.So less numbers of the more advanced model would be required to build.In relation to the game..an AI commander in the hokum makes sense(and there actually is one in the game I believe...just not active...but there is an active Mi-28 which would do)

 

I found this quote...

 

"The success of any combat operation to support ground forces on the battlefield depends to a large extent on the joint combat actions of group combat helicopters. A group commander flying in a combat formation is responsible for control over subordinate helicopters. His helicopter should be fitted with more sophisticated equipment compared to the rest of the group to make him see better targets on the battlefield and be able to ensure target designation and distribution, provide for constant control over group combat helicopters and maintain communications with a ground command post. The scope of tasks assigned to the commander frees him from helicopter piloting. Consequently, he should fly in a two-seat flying combat vehicle.

The Ka-52, designated Alligator, multi-role all-weather combat helicopter, is intended for this purpose as a two-seat modification of the Ka-50 combat helicopter. Pilots accommodated side-by-side in one cockpit can fly this helicopter and handle all on-board systems. The Alligator retained all combat capabilities of its predecessor, including the whole array of weaponry. It is outfitted with a multifunctional on-board integrated electronic flight, navigation and weapon control system. Its passive/active observation/search and sighting systems ensure target search and their attack day/night in any weather conditions. The Sextant Avionic of France and Thomson company take part in creation of this helicopter. The Ka-52 Alligator is 85 percent identical to the Ka-50 base helicopter in terms of its airframe and main systems. Pilots escape via an ejection system. The Ka-52 Alligator can also be used as a trainer. Pilot accommodation and the availability of new multifunctional equipment system led to an increase in the weight of the empty helicopter and a certain deterioration in flight performance, compared to the Ka-50. However, it did not affect the integrated quality of this flying machine as a whole."