No official news?

[Omega417]

58 minutes ago, Temetre said:

But isnt it peoples own fault if theyre getting impatient?

Like the F-4 has been in development for two years apparently, which really isnt that much.

Everyone has different levels of patience. Dont apply your own standards to the internet, it wont work.

Id be way way more impatient if I wasnt super busy at work and havent been able to fly in weeks.

[Temetre]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Omega417:

Everyone has different levels of patience. Dont apply your own standards to the internet, it wont work.

Thats what people that get impatient are doing towards heatblur tho. Theyre blaming HB for their own feelings.

[Omega417]

1 minute ago, Temetre said:

Thats what people that get impatient are doing towards heatblur tho. Theyre blaming HB for their own feelings.

But if they can justify it in their minds then its just. The people who can wait dont normally post about how they are happily waiting, they just post about the ordinance or liveries.

[Temetre]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Omega417:

But if they can justify it in their minds then its just.

No, I dont think its just when they attack a developer because they cant keep their expectations/feelings under control?

I mean its not like HB did a massive hype wave, or did a preorder, or made clear promises. 

[Omega417]

2 minutes ago, Temetre said:

No, I dont think its just when they attack a developer because they cant keep their expectations/feelings under control?

I mean its not like HB did a massive hype wave, or did a preorder, or made clear promises. 

You arent actually reading these comments.

[Germane]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Temetre:

Like the F-4 has been in development for two years apparently, which really isnt that much.

Two years by a full time team. That is actually not so little.

After it was announced in November that they were working hard on a release 22, I firmly assumed that it would come in Q1 23 at the latest. Now, at the end of Q2, there has still not been the big reveal. I am firmly convinced that the project is doing well and that the F4 will be an outstanding module. But much later than expected

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Temetre:

No, I dont think its just when they attack a developer because they cant keep their expectations/feelings under control?

I mean its not like HB did a massive hype wave, or did a preorder, or made clear promises. 

No one here is attacking or blaming the developer!

[Temetre]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Omega417:

You arent actually reading these comments.

Oh my bad, I thought we were talking about blaming HB for the delay? Otherwise my posts make no sense.

Of course its stupid to blame people for their feelings itself. Feelings arent always logical. Im excited for the F4 as well!

[S. Low]

Yeah you're right, it's my fault I want to give them money for something lol. I think I've posted twice in 8 months about this product. Literally egregious.

 

[Temetre]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb S. Low:

Yeah you're right, it's my fault I want to give them money for something lol. I think I've posted twice in 8 months about this product. Literally egregious

I wasnt talking about you, I thought the convo had shifted to people who are a bit more rabid about this stuff. Evidently that was a misunderstanding.

Your post imo was just weird because you said theres "radio silence" or that theyre mustve been some deeper issue.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Temetre

[1130]

to be honest I'm totally tired of the two weeks games from DCS, It might be the other product's issue, causing a series of delay, but god, how would you feel if you keep hearing two weeks since last year, and you favorite aircraft keep staying stealth dispite all the video and propaganda keep showing it.

[Rodeo]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:43 AM, _BringTheReign_ said:

336 hours, give or give 336 hours x ♾

Or 1,209,600 seconds… give or take 

[Trooper117]

Well, when it comes I'll be waiting... 

[Raisuli]

I discovered tonight I have a major problem, and maybe HB can help.  Put a static F-4E in the hanger next to where I launch my aircraft and realized the graphics are pretty horrible.  I have to wonder if HB has a model that perhaps replicated the -E and would do a better job of representing that aircraft in my hangar.  Not that I'm suggesting they release anything, but such a nice map and such a poor model...

 

You know...

[draconus]

10 hours ago, Raisuli said:

I have a major problem, and maybe HB can help

They will help you when they release the F-4 module. DCS will add the new F-4E external model to the coremods then. What does it have to do with a nice map though? There are a lot of old models that don't look good anymore.

[Silver_Dragon]

5 minutes ago, draconus said:

They will help you when they release the F-4 module. DCS will add the new F-4E external model to the coremods then. What does it have to do with a nice map though? There are a lot of old models that don't look good anymore.

DCS AI 3d models has outside of the Core Mod diretories.

[draconus]

2 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

DCS AI 3d models has outside of the Core Mod diretories.

Where do they land now?

[Silver_Dragon]

5 minutes ago, draconus said:

Where do they land now?

From always, 3D model AI units has on DCS/Bazar/World/Shappes directorie. Never was move from here, other as WWII assets pack has on other directorie.

[draconus]

46 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

From always, 3D model AI units has on DCS/Bazar/World/Shappes directorie. Never was move from here, other as WWII assets pack has on other directorie.

Afaik all models go into the coremods while only very old models are left in the bazar folder. Ex.:

Edited June 21, 2023 by draconus

[MemphisBelle]

On 6/13/2023 at 5:32 PM, Temetre said:

But isnt it peoples own fault if theyre getting impatient?

Like the F-4 has been in development for two years apparently, which really isnt that much.

The Problem is on a different topic and that one is called, Communication. 

The F-4 was announced in 2021 to be available in 2022. This release timeframe, respectively the timeframe for the Unveil to happen has been approved by HB to happen in October 2022. Then things happened and a delay occurred which was explained by Cobra in a Reddit statement. Then it was mentioned that we will see the unveil (and thus the release shortly after) in early 2023 and again HB said that we don't have to wait yet another half a year which was mentioned end 2022 beginning 2023. 

Release plans and Reality always collide and they always accompany expectations on the Customer side. We always get the Information from Cobra that the Developing process is very close to being done and an unveil is around the next corner...and then, nothing except another newsletter in March 2023 which diverts from any "you´ll get it in your hands soon" Statements.

And now tell me that impatience is Customer's fault

The Problem is wrong Communication, and I´m very serious when I say now that I consider any kind of Communication wrong if it happens within a state of development where a release date can not be set.

I really wish that ED and all 3rd Party devs would finally stop announcing Modules years before the release. We have lots to do and lots to learn and lots to fly on, we do not necessarily get to be teased and triggered with the next highly anticipated Module which is promised to be released within the next few months just to get disappointed once again. I wish we would get to hear the very first announcement of a module at a stage where a release is dependent on marketing and not Developer questions anymore, but no...we keep on getting teased with hope to sit in our Childhood dream Aircraft very soon whereas we are actually not because the release was once again delayed and Communication went silent by Dev teams to focus better on the work...why not be silent until the work is done and the Module ready to release?

Edited June 21, 2023 by MemphisBelle

[draconus]

24 minutes ago, MemphisBelle said:

...why not be silent until the work is done and the jet ready to release?

Because many fans want to know what's coming, then want to see a progress and other devs have to know that a module is already in the works and agreement with ED is made.

Sorry, you're a victim of a hype train, impatience and devs failures.

[MemphisBelle]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Because many fans want to know what's coming, then want to see a progress and other devs have to know that a module is already in the works and agreement with ED is made.

Sorry, you're a victim of a hype train, impatience and devs failures.

hmm, I don't necessarily see Dev's failures here as we all know that Software Development can be a PITA, especially with such a highly dynamic and evolving Platform which is DCS. I really raise my had for these guys who voluntarily do the Job where every update can break a lot of stuff which has been achieved. That encourages me, even more, to state for a radio silence to the Customer base. 3rd Party devs can for sure exchange Details among each other and ED, but without being public. I still believe that this would make much more sense and would help the Devs and the Customers. Production milestones can be shared post-release which would be an ontop cherry for the Customers.

[Trooper117]

One bad thing about the human race (amongst others), is that for centuries they display an uncanny ability to get bored easily, and that's compounded and leads onto an acute onset of lack of patience... that's why we go to war a lot. Well known fact, honest... 

[draconus]

1 hour ago, MemphisBelle said:

3rd Party devs can for sure exchange Details among each other and ED, but without being public.

ED has recently changed their stance on that - new module announcement has to be public and early in the development.

Radio silence is as bad as time estimates (I had to say something about devs' fault, they didn't deliver - that's a fact). Can't please everyone.

[Temetre]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb MemphisBelle:

The Problem is on a different topic and that one is called, Communication. 

The F-4 was announced in 2021 to be available in 2022. This release timeframe, respectively the timeframe for the Unveil to happen has been approved by HB to happen in October 2022. Then things happened and a delay occurred which was explained by Cobra in a Reddit statement. Then it was mentioned that we will see the unveil (and thus the release shortly after) in early 2023 and again HB said that we don't have to wait yet another half a year which was mentioned end 2022 beginning 2023. 

Release plans and Reality always collide and they always accompany expectations on the Customer side. We always get the Information from Cobra that the Developing process is very close to being done and an unveil is around the next corner...and then, nothing except another newsletter in March 2023 which diverts from any "you´ll get it in your hands soon" Statements.

And now tell me that impatience is Customer's fault

The Problem is wrong Communication, and I´m very serious when I say now that I consider any kind of Communication wrong if it happens within a state of development where a release date can not be set.

I really wish that ED and all 3rd Party devs would finally stop announcing Modules years before the release. We have lots to do and lots to learn and lots to fly on, we do not necessarily get to be teased and triggered with the next highly anticipated Module which is promised to be released within the next few months just to get disappointed once again. I wish we would get to hear the very first announcement of a module at a stage where a release is dependent on marketing and not Developer questions anymore, but no...we keep on getting teased with hope to sit in our Childhood dream Aircraft very soon whereas we are actually not because the release was once again delayed and Communication went silent by Dev teams to focus better on the work...why not be silent until the work is done and the Module ready to release?

Frankly, while the developer can always improve, and HB isnt perfect, its 100% your fault that you exaggerated the issue to this level.

Communication cant be that bad, considering I know whats going on, and so do many others. There is no radio silence, considering devs talk here or on the discord reguarly. So first of all, lets set the facts straight:

 

1. A release date can have a lower or higher level of confidence. There is rarely an "exact date", especially when the developer (like HB currently) has the ability to delay the release for a while to maximize quality. Rather than release an unfinished game, like AAA-devs do again and again.

2. So if the developer gives you an internal date, then thats an estimate the dev believes to be workable. The dev doesnt got a hard release date, so he either cant give his honest estimate, or he can say nothing. Its not like the developer lies, its the current target. Its not a promise.

3. Main reason HB is not making a major hype out of it, is because they dont want to start the hype till they are really close to release. Which I think is a really good way to handle things.

And frankly, I like developers to be honest and not be afraid to talk about their development, and give out estimates. So I do kinda take offense if you want absolute radio silence till release, just because you feel bad because reasons.

 

Like... im not trying to insult you, but these are purely your feelings that make you feel bad. You cant deal with the excitement, but you surely know that release dates arent set in stone? And despite expecting it, you still take it as a promise and feels like its a betrayal if they are delayed.

If you feel bad about something and your solution is "someone else has to change", then youre giving up any personal responsibility. And it wont get better, because you cant change how devs work, nor does everyone agree with your about how they should communicate. The solution is that you learn to deal with your feelings better. 

I dont wanna make this some dumb overaching social commentary, but its a real tendency that people are less willing to take agency over their feelings, and ask the world around them to change instead. Thats a horrible approach, since you cant control others. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Temetre

[MemphisBelle]

1 hour ago, Temetre said:

Frankly, while the developer can always improve, and HB isnt perfect, its 100% your fault that you exaggerated the issue to this level.

Communication cant be that bad, considering I know whats going on, and so do many others. There is no radio silence, considering devs talk here or on the discord reguarly. So first of all, lets set the facts straight:

 

1. A release date can have a lower or higher level of confidence. There is rarely an "exact date", especially when the developer (like HB currently) has the ability to delay the release for a while to maximize quality. Rather than release an unfinished game, like AAA-devs do again and again.

2. So if the developer gives you an internal date, then thats an estimate the dev believes to be workable. The dev doesnt got a hard release date, so he either cant give his honest estimate, or he can say nothing. Its not like the developer lies, its the current target. Its not a promise.

3. Main reason HB is not making a major hype out of it, is because they dont want to start the hype till they are really close to release. Which I think is a really good way to handle things.

And frankly, I like developers to be honest and not be afraid to talk about their development, and give out estimates. So I do kinda take offense if you want absolute radio silence till release, just because you feel bad because reasons.

 

Like... im not trying to insult you, but these are purely your feelings that make you feel bad. You cant deal with the excitement, but you surely know that release dates arent set in stone? And despite expecting it, you still take it as a promise and feels like its a betrayal if they are delayed.

If you feel bad about something and your solution is "someone else has to change", then youre giving up any personal responsibility. And it wont get better, because you cant change how devs work, nor does everyone agree with your about how they should communicate. The solution is that you learn to deal with your feelings better. 

I dont wanna make this some dumb overaching social commentary, but its a real tendency that people are less willing to take agency over their feelings, and ask the world around them to change instead. Thats a horrible approach, since you cant control others. 

 

Sorry, but you completely missed my points. You treat me like the biggest yeller and complainer which I'm clearly not. Yes, I asked questions and recieved answers but there are others outside who really get mad atm. I'm just talking about solutions on making the life easier for the Devs and the Customers.

I'm Member of the DCS Community since the very first LOMAC, thus I know how things are working. 

But expressing Ideas which are supposed to make things easier (whether they are good or not) and crying for a release date are completely different things imho.

Personally I'm looking forward more for the unveil as I wont have much time to dig in deep into all the Systems, at least not this year.