Praise for Legacy Hornet

[NineLine]

First, thanks to those at the beginning of the thread, and we are glad the DCS F/A-18C is bringing you enjoyment, it’s a great aircraft for sure. Our goal is to create an F/A-18C that is around 90% accurate. Naturally, that remaining 10% is not possible to due lack of data and security concerns. Regardless, we believe we offer the most authentic F/A-18C available in a PC simulation.

Just to be clear, our F/A-18C is generally based on a 2002 OFP 04E due to the availability of public references. There are a handful of exceptions, but a 2002 04E bird is the general goal. 

The F/A-18C is a very important module to us, and it has taken us to places we have never gone before by laying the groundwork for other DCS aircraft. There are of course items we are still working on, like MSI, flight model and FCS tuning, and more (see roadmap). We understand how important these aircraft are to our customers. This is particularly true for those customers that are hyper-focused on anything they can find wrong rather than appreciating the product as a whole.  

For those trying to bring up issues by hijacking such topics, the place to do so would be in the bug section with the appropriate evidence (not opinion). We are happy to review all concerns, but please respect topics created by other members that are enjoying the game.  

[Chaffee]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

First, thanks to those at the beginning of the thread, and we are glad the DCS F/A-18C is bringing you enjoyment, it’s a great aircraft for sure. Our goal is to create an F/A-18C that is around 90% accurate. Naturally, that remaining 10% is not possible to due lack of data and security concerns. Regardless, we believe we offer the most authentic F/A-18C available in a PC simulation.

Just to be clear, our F/A-18C is generally based on a 2002 OFP 04E due to the availability of public references. There are a handful of exceptions, but a 2002 04E bird is the general goal. 

The F/A-18C is a very important module to us, and it has taken us to places we have never gone before by laying the groundwork for other DCS aircraft. There are of course items we are still working on, like MSI, flight model and FCS tuning, and more (see roadmap). We understand how important these aircraft are to our customers. This is particularly true for those customers that are hyper-focused on anything they can find wrong rather than appreciating the product as a whole.  

For those trying to bring up issues by hijacking such topics, the place to do so would be in the bug section with the appropriate evidence (not opinion). We are happy to review all concerns, but please respect topics created by other members that are enjoying the game.  

In the spirit of this, I'd like to tell you and the team just how much I love the F/A-18C, especially the "howl." 

It's my "baseline:" the standard by which everything else is measured, and that standard is extremely high. I love the jet, and it's one of the reasons I feel strong in my support of DCS as a product.

And, as someone who's worked in project management and product development, I'd say a "90% rule" is a very high standard and realistically exceeds expectations, even for a mature product.

[NineLine]

41 minutes ago, Hulkbust44 said:

 

 

This is the first I've heard of 04E being a goal, it was always stated/advertised that our jet was an F/A-18C EPE circa 2005. Am I correct in understanding that the focus is now on replicating the Spanish models instead? Last I heard from ED confirmation of our function in OFP 15C/17C, with our HSI functions matching 20X.

I understand that realistically an 05' is just not going to happen at this point, but I would hope for some communication with the developers about such a thing.

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G (2022) using Tapatalk
 

 

We have never pinned down anything other than the fact that we would adjust and adapt our F/A-18C based on what we can do within the realm of realism and unrestricted data which would bring the best adaptation of a F/A-18C that we could within these limits. Some of you like to joke about the 'subject to change' but this is a simple fact when dealing with such military aircraft. We really stressed that it would be an early/mid F/A-18C which is where we are at, right around 2002ish. Never had we said that it would be a perfect carbon copy of any aircraft, early on we already stated that we had to adapt things from earlier aircraft where we had holes from restricted info. 

Now, all that said, I have to remind you of rule 1.5. You had no reason to interject in this thread that was a nice nod to the F/A-18C team within DCS for their years of hard work bringing the absolute best F/A-18C available. Sometimes it's okay to let people enjoy something without raining on their parade, especially when it's done in such an ill-informed or misleading, at best, way.

I would ask you now to just let the thread be what it was although I am sure all this has taken the wind out of it now. Continued OT posts will result in warning points. If you have concerns or bugs or wishes to report, you may start your own thread. 

4 hours ago, Chaffee said:

In the spirit of this, I'd like to tell you and the team just how much I love the F/A-18C, especially the "howl." 

It's my "baseline:" the standard by which everything else is measured, and that standard is extremely high. I love the jet, and it's one of the reasons I feel strong in my support of DCS as a product.

And, as someone who's worked in project management and product development, I'd say a "90% rule" is a very high standard and realistically exceeds expectations, even for a mature product.

Thank you for the kind words, I will make sure it's passed on to the men and women working hard on the module. I was lucky enough to meet some of them in person for the first time this past year and their passion for this work spills over when talking to them. 

[Hulkbust44]

Thank you for the kind words, I will make sure it's passed on to the men and women working hard on the module. I was lucky enough to meet some of them in person for the first time this past year and their passion for this work spills over when talking to them. 

I apologize, you're correct this is not the right place. Even though this is about the real Hornet, I'll add that I am continuously impressed by the level of detail that exists at the core of our DCS Hornet. Going back through the original pre-release development updates brings a lot of "huh, I didn't realize that was implemented"

Speaking of Hornet nostalgia, has anyone suggested that the "Ode to Mongo" mission be updated to the actual H3 AO on Syria?

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G (2022) using Tapatalk

[wilbur81]

Wombat talks about a Carrier take off with three full bags in the Legacy Hornet where he breaks the Mach at around 500 feet off the water:

"kept it in blower at 500 feet, a couple miles off the ship I went through Mach 1, and it shocked me."

https://youtu.be/APAEykrfUZs?si=_Gql1s7iqzHXUDEc&t=1110

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2024 by wilbur81

[Cgjunk2]

I’ve spent my last few MP sessions on an aerobatics server chasing around another F-18 buddy doing everything possible to shake me off, in the most stylish, edge of the envelope manner possible lol.   Basically, dogfighting someone willing to be chased within the confines of an aerobatic box.  Let me tell you, it’s some of the most fun you can have in VR.    It was enough to actually raise my heart rate, which surprised me.   But I swear,  I’m not that out of shape!  It was because it was so fun, immersive, and engaging!   Although, I’ll admit my neck still hurts after two nights of this lol.   
 

Someone here previously mentioned VR quality and performance in the Hornet.  I agree, it’s among the best of the modules in this regard.  Even on my meager 2070 driving an HP G2, it’s an awesome and largely smooth experience on the MP aerobatics server I frequent.  I especially love that the pilot model will actually cast shadows on the instrument panel, and that it moves lock step with my actual head position.  I can actually block glare  just by moving my head!  That adds a huge amount to the immersion!  
 

From a flight dynamics and feel perspective, it’s an all around great job ED!  Compliments to the chef!  Your work is appreciated!!!  

 

 

[freehand]

I love the hornet & like many have most modules, in VR sweet well done ED and this is coming from a grumpy old git like me. 

[wilbur81]

Here's a nice little break turn video of a small-motored Canadian CF-18 in 1988 doing 360 degrees in about 16 seconds... averaging a nice little 22 degrees per second, and with energy to spare. 

 

Edited April 12, 2024 by wilbur81

[Kefa]

 Fast CF/A-18 Hornet turns and with a CL tank on, piloted by Bob Wade 1986 Abbotsford.

 

 

 

same airshow, different perspective.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2024 by Kefa

[Rissala]

On 2/6/2024 at 1:05 AM, NineLine said:

Thank you for the kind words, I will make sure it's passed on to the men and women working hard on the module. I was lucky enough to meet some of them in person for the first time this past year and their passion for this work spills over when talking to them. 

The Hornet module for DCS is absolutely foundational! This is easily the best DCS has to offer right now.
As I already said in a previous comment, can we expect a "release from EA video" for this module since its out now?

[wilbur81]

On 5/3/2024 at 7:31 AM, Kefa said:

 Fast CF/A-18 Hornet turns and with a CL tank on, piloted by Bob Wade 1986 Abbotsford.

 

 

 

same airshow, different perspective.

 

That's a very nice little 21-22 degrees per second sustained turn with the centerline tank. Thanks for sharing, Kefa! 

Edited June 1, 2024 by wilbur81

[wilbur81]

Regarding the real world performance of the Legacy Hornet, some will discredit the flight performance of the enhanced performance engine'd (EPE) F404-402 Hornet Charlie's saying something to the tune of, "Yes, the EPE'd Charlie has more thrust, but it's also heavier, so it doesn't really outperform the A-models." For some VERY cool and interesting reading, here is the FAA's Air Show TAC Demonstration manual/guidelines for the F/A-18 Legacy demos. I'm sure many have found and read it before, but I've included a screenshot below from page three in which pilots are cautioned to take into account the extra power/thrust when flying vertical and horizontal maneuvers in an EPE -402 jet, so as not to exceed airspeeds, avoid G-locs, etc. I highlighted the EPE note in yellow in the two images below. Another cool thing that can be done with this .pdf (included for download) is to try and replicate all the maneuvers with accurate entry and exit airspeeds and altitudes within DCS. Our virtual jet is incredibly close! Get after those Double-Immelmann's and enjoy...

Navy_F-18-TAC_Demo_Maneuvers-Package.pdf

Edited June 1, 2024 by wilbur81

[Wizard_03]

There's a reason no one has the EM charts for the EPE hornet. They are not available to the public, and I think that alone speaks volumes. Perceptions of the jet largely formed before it got the big motors and I think that's why there is a lot of disbelief on these forums over what the hornet can do. However little crumbs like the ones above tell a vastly different story. 

[wilbur81]

 

 

Edited August 17, 2024 by wilbur81

[wilbur81]

"Big-Engined" Legacy over the Super-Hornet in raw performance.... Be sure and listen all the way to 1:57:24. 

Edited September 11, 2024 by wilbur81

[wilbur81]

 

[TK-421]

 

[wilbur81]

"[In a Hornet], I won 50% of the fights against the F-16...I never lost a 1v1 against the F-15."

Seriously, Steve's 10 Percent True podcast is an absolute treasure trove of fighter aviation conversations.

[wilbur81]

"For four days straight, we went out and smoked them." Chuck Magill on killing the Eagles at Tyndall who underestimated the F/A-18A.

 

[bies]

On 1/21/2025 at 11:10 PM, wilbur81 said:

"For four days straight, we went out and smoked them." Chuck Magill on killing the Eagles at Tyndall who underestimated the F/A-18A.

And later on he killed a MiG-29 flying an F-15C MSIP II Eagle during Derest Storm in a part 2 of the interview.

 

[Augora]

Want to share that ever since I flew Jane's F/A-18 sim back in the 90's, wanting to fly a proper hornet sim was a dream that I never really thought would come to light.  Massive thanks to the DCS team and especially those who created the F/A-18C module.  It's absolutely brilliant, with a level of detail far in excess of anything I thought possible.  The quality of the craftsmanship is part of what inspired me to build an F/A-18 sim rig.  Seeing the discussion of the flight model is fascinating; I didn't realize the flight model was actually so incredibly accurate.  Having a flight model that is so accurate running on home computing power is quite brilliant actually.  Hats off!

[wilbur81]

"[For BFM], I would want to be in an F-18"

Some more Hornet (BFM performance) praise from "Proton" of TOP GUN and PBS' "Carrier" fame. He flew Hornets in the USN and the mighty F-16N BFM machine as a Top Gun instructor. He's asked which jet he'd rather be in for a BFM set, Viper or Hornet? And he's not biased at all...  

 

Edited June 4 by wilbur81

[Kefa]

Proton was winged in August 1993, see part 1 of his interview. He had yet to go through F/A-18 flight training.  And the F-16N was gone from topgun by mid/late 1994 (wing crack issues).  So he never flew the N.  The N was a small mouth block 30 powered by the GE F110 engine.  What he did fly some years later at topgun was the F-16A block 15 ocu, which was powered by the Pratt & Whitney F100-220.  Those jets were destined for the Pakistan AF, but never delivered.  In 2002 the US Navy acquired them for disimilar use at topgun.

[wilbur81]

4 hours ago, Kefa said:

Proton was winged in August 1993, see part 1 of his interview. He had yet to go through F/A-18 flight training.  And the F-16N was gone from topgun by mid/late 1994 (wing crack issues).  So he never flew the N.  The N was a small mouth block 30 powered by the GE F110 engine.  What he did fly some years later at topgun was the F-16A block 15 ocu, which was powered by the Pratt & Whitney F100-220.  Those jets were destined for the Pakistan AF, but never delivered.  In 2002 the US Navy acquired them for disimilar use at topgun.

Nice.