Feedback Thread F-14 Tomcat - Update 24th Jan. 2023

[Naquaii]

10 hours ago, Tomcatter87 said:

He does nothing. No ICS alignment, no entering waypoints. If I do his work for him and do the RIO startup procedure and then switch back to the pilot seat, he's typing wildly, I get the feeling that hes redoing my work

Is this before or after starting both engines?

[Dannyvandelft]

He doesn’t have a lot to do until the engines are up and stable. I believe him never flipping his seat safety is a legacy bug, or he does it after gear up or something. 

I'm not 100% sure, but I remember reading somewhere they flipped it as they stepped in the cockpit since it's on top of the seat.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Tomcatter87]

18 hours ago, Naquaii said:

Is this before or after starting both engines?

He hasnt done anything - if the left engine is running and I switch to the back seat, nothing back there is done. He doesnt even put the WCS into standby. If however, during my pilot startup procedure, I switch to the back seat and turn the WCS on standby for him, he'll align everything just like I'm used to .

It might be a coincidence, but I just started to learn the RIO procedures - dont know if that might have triggered a bug. But that doesnt happen in just one, but several of my cold start missions.

[draconus]

55 minutes ago, Tomcatter87 said:

He hasnt done anything - if the left engine is running and I switch to the back seat, nothing back there is done. He doesnt even put the WCS into standby. If however, during my pilot startup procedure, I switch to the back seat and turn the WCS on standby for him, he'll align everything just like I'm used to .

It might be a coincidence, but I just started to learn the RIO procedures - dont know if that might have triggered a bug. But that doesnt happen in just one, but several of my cold start missions.

Jester won't start the INS alignment and startup procedures until you've started both engines.

[Tomcatter87]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Jester won't start the INS alignment and startup procedures until you've started both engines.

Gonna check that one. The Tomcat is my main module - but maybe I'm confused with all that RIO stuff in my head.

[Naquaii]

4 hours ago, Tomcatter87 said:

He hasnt done anything - if the left engine is running and I switch to the back seat, nothing back there is done. He doesnt even put the WCS into standby. If however, during my pilot startup procedure, I switch to the back seat and turn the WCS on standby for him, he'll align everything just like I'm used to .

It might be a coincidence, but I just started to learn the RIO procedures - dont know if that might have triggered a bug. But that doesnt happen in just one, but several of my cold start missions.

The reason I'm asking is because he won't continue his checklist until both engines are up and running as mentioned.

[Tomcatter87]

4 hours ago, Naquaii said:

The reason I'm asking is because he won't continue his checklist until both engines are up and running as mentioned.

Just made a cold start again - you're absolutely right. Seems my Head was so in RIO mode that I wondered why the heck Jester doesn't type hectically like I would have done. Was it real life procedure to wait with the INS alignment till both engines were running? 

[lunaticfringe]

3 hours ago, Tomcatter87 said:

Just made a cold start again - you're absolutely right. Seems my Head was so in RIO mode that I wondered why the heck Jester doesn't type hectically like I would have done. Was it real life procedure to wait with the INS alignment till both engines were running? 

Yes.  Alignment would not be performed until after both engines were running and the emergency generator test was performed by the pilot (second step of his post-start procedures), to make sure that there was no risk of a power fluctuation throwing the alignment off.  NATOPS also instructs that there be a delay of a few minutes (3, if memory serves) between activating the ECS and starting up the avionics and AWG-9 so that the bays are sufficiently cooled before they're powered on.

[Naquaii]

17 hours ago, Tomcatter87 said:

Just made a cold start again - you're absolutely right. Seems my Head was so in RIO mode that I wondered why the heck Jester doesn't type hectically like I would have done. Was it real life procedure to wait with the INS alignment till both engines were running? 

Yeah, fringe is correct. Possible to start before but correct procedure was to wait and Jester follows procedure.

[Skarp]

16 hours ago, Naquaii said:

Yeah, fringe is correct. Possible to start before but correct procedure was to wait and Jester follows procedure.

There is an issue starting cold on the boat and jester doesn’t use the boat DL for his CVN alignment. He will mistakenly use an Awacs if available. So after every cold start I have to jump in the back. Set it back to the carrier DL, turn the ins knob to CVN then back to INS to correct my position and hook to the boat.

jester also does not update the flare ,chaff counter, and stations after rearming is complete.

Jester also needs an option added to prioritize target and set all other targets to do not attack. In busy servers with 20 plus bandits in the air it’s impossible for auto track even on a missile shot to keep the target I shot at on scope. Usually ends up dropping track because the radar picked someone up lower than him. So I need to jump in the back and do his work for him haha.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Skarp

[DSplayer]

5 hours ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

This shouldn't be happening in TWS A.

In a perfect world, Jester would be marking targets as Do Not Attack in order to prevent your TWSA centroid being placed in a suboptimal position that could potentially lead to target extrapolation against a target you fired a missile at.

[Naquaii]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:08 AM, Skarp said:

There is an issue starting cold on the boat and jester doesn’t use the boat DL for his CVN alignment. He will mistakenly use an Awacs if available. So after every cold start I have to jump in the back. Set it back to the carrier DL, turn the ins knob to CVN then back to INS to correct my position and hook to the boat.

The normal datalink host choice shouldn't affect the alignment, the CAINS is separate. Are you sure the alignment is wrong if you just let it align regardless?

[Skarp]

1 hour ago, Naquaii said:

The normal datalink host choice shouldn't affect the alignment, the CAINS is separate. Are you sure the alignment is wrong if you just let it align regardless?

I was unaware the dl host didn't matter for a cva alignment. now I do.

[dayron405]

Estamos a 2023, para cuando subtitulos para las voces de jester??

[draconus]

10 minutes ago, dayron405 said:

Estamos a 2023, para cuando subtitulos para las voces de jester??

1. Please don't crosspost.

2. This is english part of the forum.

3. Last time HB have spoken, they decided it's too much work.

[Pekins]

Please add a sun visor toggle to your modules.

[Bosun]

On 1/28/2023 at 4:07 PM, BubiHUN said:

I will have my opinion(right or wrong),

When your opinion is proven to be false, and you proudly state that you will hang on to it regardless - that is a core issue that speaks to something that has nothing at all to do with the game.  No development team, bug with a game, or fix that could come out is going to address the underlying unrest inherent in that statement, nor is it the responsibility of any person other than that individual, to address that kind of deeper emotional/maturity dissonance. 

[dayron405]

On 27/2/2023 at 14:22, draconus said:

1. Por favor, no hagas publicaciones cruzadas.

2. Esta es la parte en inglés del foro.

3. La última vez que HB habló, decidieron que era demasiado trabajo.

We are in 2023, when will subtitles for the voices of jester?

[draconus]

22 minutes ago, dayron405 said:

We are in 2023, when will subtitles for the voices of jester?

As said in point #3 - probably never.

[RustBelt]

I wonder, is there an output trail of what jester audio file is being played? If it was exportable one could construct their own 3rd party subtitles app with subtitles tied to audio file calls.

[IronMike]

6 hours ago, RustBelt said:

I wonder, is there an output trail of what jester audio file is being played? If it was exportable one could construct their own 3rd party subtitles app with subtitles tied to audio file calls.

The reason we are not doing them, is because we would have to transcribe nigh 11.000 voice calls, make nigh 11.000 sdefs for it and then write the code to have the combined (fractured) transcriptions play together like the audio files. It bugs, us, too, and we keep thinking about it, but it is a monumental task, and unfortunately not possible atm. I also doubt anyone would invest the time for it for a mod. We even have offers from hearing impared community members, who would be willing to help with the transcriptions, but coding all of that is the real bottleneck, where we simply need to say "no" for the time being.

Edited March 8, 2023 by IronMike

[IronMike]

On 1/29/2023 at 9:19 PM, Luka CMF said:

Operation Reforger SC version, Mission 5 - Alpha strike: Gudauta

• I took off from carrier, 7 miles from carrier turn and climb to wp1 to rejoin with pontiacs, follow to wp2 and wp3.
• On AWACS call about 2 SU-27, getting down to 10k and killing them.
• Get another call for 2 MiG-29 taking off, kill them too.
• Few moments later we get another call for migs in direction of Sochi, kill them.
• Get order to resume CAP, wingman declares bingo, send to tanker. His response is can't do so I send him RTB, he ejects at some point while I still have 11000lb of fuel.
• I keep on CAP between wp2 and 3 for another hour and a half, keep checking debrief/score(no friendlies died), message history that I haven't missed RTB, F10 map to check if there are any red planes, keep changing views around to check if any red can be found, nothing... I stay in CAP till I get to 3000lb of fuel, most of the friendlies already landed, no other strike is happening and only few tomcats on CAPs.
• Call to mother, land by the book with only 800lb of fuel left. Mission score 50 - draw.

I have flown this mission 5 times and always the same result.

Is there a bug in the scoring system or something got broken with latest update.

p.s. Similar thing happened on mission 10 of operation sandworm, I have contacted sandman and he said that he found an error in scoring but missed the patch release

Do you have maybe a tacview saved from your attempts please?

Do you hear Uzi 2 being hit at all? (this one is important)

You are also not supposed to kill anything but the bandits assigned to you. You do not get any call for any MiGs in direction of anything, except the 2 Su27s and the 2 MiGs out of Gudauta. It is possible that killing other bandits, which are not assigned to you, is breaking the trigger logic.

Uzi 7 btw isn't there, it is just a call as in "they will relieve you".

I double and triple checked everything, and there is no flaw in the trigger logic/ scoring system.

[RustBelt]

19 hours ago, IronMike said:

The reason we are not doing them, is because we would have to transcribe nigh 11.000 voice calls, make nigh 11.000 sdefs for it and then write the code to have the combined (fractured) transcriptions play together like the audio files. It bugs, us, too, and we keep thinking about it, but it is a monumental task, and unfortunately not possible atm. I also doubt anyone would invest the time for it for a mod. We even have offers from hearing impared community members, who would be willing to help with the transcriptions, but coding all of that is the real bottleneck, where we simply need to say "no" for the time being.

 

Yea, I was more talking about a non Heatblur solution. Never underestimate bored nerds. HB was one too once.
 

What still baffles me is you guys really didn’t make a list when you were doing it? You were just winging the whole massive voice recording undertaking. 

[IronMike]

14 hours ago, RustBelt said:

Yea, I was more talking about a non Heatblur solution. Never underestimate bored nerds. HB was one too once.
 

What still baffles me is you guys really didn’t make a list when you were doing it? You were just winging the whole massive voice recording undertaking. 

What do you mean by list? Like a script?

That's not how that works. During my theatre time I developed a special technique that creates a play in only a few days through improvisation. With this technique I was able to bring a play to the stage in only 3 days, from nothing. You know the direction, but you write it together with the actors, as well as stage it at the same time. In a way, you let the actors live out the story while it is written. This technique has been applied to Jester, which is what makes him so lively, moody, etc. I have ofc everything written down, too, because one of the rules of this technique is "write everything down" - but in Jester's case (and contrary to a theatre play) you cannot just use that as transcriptions, because when you do the variations, you also need to divert from what is written down. This is what helps to keep his language alive. What you cannot do in Jester's case is write out a script that has all combinations either, because I had to focus on the single parts beeing peeled out to a level that they are all compatible with each other, while still delivering a diversity in mood and emotion. This is the most difficult part and takes all the focus. Curating a script for that is just a horrible distraction, which isn't needed, because I keep that all in my head, more readily available and with a far better overview than any script could ever give me. So in the end, you have a result coming from thousands of notes, dozens of word documents, the freedom to improvise and the organic combination of thousands of voice calls. Hence it is easier to transcribe it from the end result, which is best taken from a combination of the single calls and the sdefs (which basically are a script, just broken down in 11k parts).

Art may be a form of engineering, and engineering is a form of art, but they also work vastly different at times. You can't just engineer Jester's language and write up a script beforehand - you have to live it out.

[RustBelt]

8 hours ago, IronMike said:

What do you mean by list? Like a script?

That's not how that works. During my theatre time I developed a special technique that creates a play in only a few days through improvisation. With this technique I was able to bring a play to the stage in only 3 days, from nothing. You know the direction, but you write it together with the actors, as well as stage it at the same time. In a way, you let the actors live out the story while it is written. This technique has been applied to Jester, which is what makes him so lively, moody, etc. I have ofc everything written down, too, because one of the rules of this technique is "write everything down" - but in Jester's case (and contrary to a theatre play) you cannot just use that as transcriptions, because when you do the variations, you also need to divert from what is written down. This is what helps to keep his language alive. What you cannot do in Jester's case is write out a script that has all combinations either, because I had to focus on the single parts beeing peeled out to a level that they are all compatible with each other, while still delivering a diversity in mood and emotion. This is the most difficult part and takes all the focus. Curating a script for that is just a horrible distraction, which isn't needed, because I keep that all in my head, more readily available and with a far better overview than any script could ever give me. So in the end, you have a result coming from thousands of notes, dozens of word documents, the freedom to improvise and the organic combination of thousands of voice calls. Hence it is easier to transcribe it from the end result, which is best taken from a combination of the single calls and the sdefs (which basically are a script, just broken down in 11k parts).

Art may be a form of engineering, and engineering is a form of art, but they also work vastly different at times. You can't just engineer Jester's language and write up a script beforehand - you have to live it out.

In a software program where you do actually have to know what, where, how long, etc. yes, it is how it works. Stage and game audio recording are very different things. 

Sounds like it was done wrong. That’s a shame. This is how orphaned code and resources happen. And it’s now more work to fix than it would have to do upfront, that won’t be done now. The move fast and break things mindset as usual.