7800X3D, 7900X3D, 7950X3D..

[blkspade]

I've had a RTX3090 and 6800XT in a X570 system with 5950X, mining simultaneously and it pulled around 800w from the wall. I'm pretty sure I had my 4 HDDs and 2 SSDs in there at the time too. NVME's eat like 7-9w under load, and next to nothing idle. What it's pulling from wall is probably a little higher than the actual load on the PSU. So 850w should be enough for any AMD system with a single RTX 4090.

[BitMaster]

Am 27.6.2023 um 22:58 schrieb some1:

That's more of a counter example that a cheapo 1000W won't save you even if its well above "recommended" specs. The guy would have been better off buying something less powerful from a reputable brand for the similar price, rather than heeding your "50% Load, buy double that" advice. 1 kW to run X570 with 1080ti, really?

 

ahh, nahhh, not that easy. He bought that PSU when he was mining with 2x 1080ti and the CPU.

If I follow your advice...4090 + 7xxx3D low-wattage CPU and tailor my PSU to just fit that need...what will do in 3 years when maybe all of the top dog CPUs suddenly need 150-250w across the board and you want to upgrade..it's not unlikely to come that way.   Buy another new PSU...150w bigger...that is more expoensive in the end after all, total sum.

Also, the "my 50% advice" is not my advice, it is what most hardware testers suggest as best practise. At 50% load your currents are still very clean, your PSU most efficient and least wattage is wasted in heating up the PSU.

Paying thousands of Dollars and Euros for Gear and what not else but argue about a safety margin....  sounds similar to "my data is gone !"  "have you made a backup ?"  "What for ?"

I wouldn't sell you that cause I wouldn't want to be the one to blame.

Edited July 14, 2023 by BitMaster

[some1]

51 minutes ago, BitMaster said:

Also, the "my 50% advice" is not my advice, it is what most hardware testers suggest as best practise

Yeah, right:

or https://www.techpowerup.com/review/best-power-supply-psu-buying-guide/

If crmaris (one of the most knowledgeable guys about PSUs) says you need at least 20% headroom and with 850W PSU we have around 40% headroom for the setup discussed here, then that's more than enough for me. Even with extra headroom for a reasonable upgrade in the future. Btw, the difference in efficiency between 50% and 60% load is minuscule, you won't get any noticeable savings from that.

As for the amount of future proofing you can get when overbuying PSU, that's also questionable. The shrinking process nodes for CPUs and GPUs mean that it's going to be more and more difficult to cool those beasts not because they need much power, but because the contact surface is so small. The new 7800X3D is using less power than the old 5800X3D. 7950X3D is using less power than 5950. Yet they are hotter and would be absolutely impossible to cool using normal means at power levels that Intel is using on their 10nm CPUs. And even Intel will switch to smaller nodes eventually.

[Fakum]

Thats an older vid. When i was building this year, I think he added an additional %15 on top of that with the power consumption of the 4090 recently. That may not matter to you?

[some1]

It would matter more if you provided us with a source of this information, rather than starting with "I think". Context matters.

[Fakum]

yeah, problem is, I would have to spend alot of time going back to find out which of the many vids I watched from him to find the one I found that info in. You can take it wit ha grain of salt if you prefer, but the info is out there, I found it when I was calculating PS info. Cheers!

[Hoirtel]

My 7800X3D system is now just over two months old and running quite nicely. It has now been partnered with a 4090 and I am enjoying some serious DCS VR power. However using the MT version I still can't quite get everything to run 100% smooth, often some very minor terrain stutters which I think must be engine related. I say that as this CPU/GPU can really take some settings punishment! It laughs in the face of shadows and visibility range. I am very impressed.

A question for anyone that knows DDR5 tuning. I applied buildzoid's secondary timings to my Kingston 64Gb 6000 C36 kit and this has worked well. Totally stable and a definite improvement across the entire system. However, from what I read about Hynix DDR5 I feel like I should be able to get this to c30, but thinking it can't be as easy as just changing the first timing to c30. The voltages are now part of the buildzoid profile so not sure what else I would need to do. The second and third values of the primary timings are also unchanged (38-38) so maybe these need tweaking too. 

Anyone know of good guides for this?

[some1]

Just change them and test if they are stable. Preferably one by one. That's all there is to it, really.

The gains are minuscule though. The primary timings are not used that often in the grand scheme of things.

[Flatch]

I have 7700x in an ASUS X670E-E motherboard with 64 GB of RAM and an MSI Liquid Suprim 4090.  I am noticing some stuttering which is unexpected.  I also notice using MSI Afterburner that Core 7 will get over 95% and that is when it stutters.   Would replacing my 7700x with a 7800x3D help this enough to be noticeable?   Do other people notice this and if so, are there things I can do to improve it?  Thanks in advance

 

[EightyDuce]

On 7/19/2023 at 6:58 AM, Hoirtel said:

My 7800X3D system is now just over two months old and running quite nicely. It has now been partnered with a 4090 and I am enjoying some serious DCS VR power. However using the MT version I still can't quite get everything to run 100% smooth, often some very minor terrain stutters which I think must be engine related. I say that as this CPU/GPU can really take some settings punishment! It laughs in the face of shadows and visibility range. I am very impressed.

A question for anyone that knows DDR5 tuning. I applied buildzoid's secondary timings to my Kingston 64Gb 6000 C36 kit and this has worked well. Totally stable and a definite improvement across the entire system. However, from what I read about Hynix DDR5 I feel like I should be able to get this to c30, but thinking it can't be as easy as just changing the first timing to c30. The voltages are now part of the buildzoid profile so not sure what else I would need to do. The second and third values of the primary timings are also unchanged (38-38) so maybe these need tweaking too. 

Anyone know of good guides for this?

If you're getting some performance issues, I would make sure that your ram is infact stable (linpack, ycruncher, superpi, p95, testmem5) . Memory instability presents itself in strange ways. Also, before you go on your venture, just know that benefit from bringing CAS latency 30 will have nearly imperceptible impact on performance unless you are running benchmarks (from where you're at with BZ settings). For example, you probably already went from high 50's GBps read/copy to mid to high 60's GBps and dropped latency from 70's ms to low 60s or high 50 ms. It will also potentially require a voltage increase or drop in frequency. 

DDR5 greatly benefits from secondary and tertiary timing tuning along with frequency, followed by infinity fabric. Instead of focusing on primary timings, I would see if you can push your kit to 6200 or 6400 mt/s, if you can't get 6400 or 6200, see how much you can push IF. 

That being said, from reading your post, and this is not meant as as insult, it appears you are very inexperienced when I comes to RAM tuning. Unless you are serious about learning at least some aspects of memory timings and interaction, I would just stick to BZ timings and move on with your life. You can quickly go down a rabbit hole for very little gain beyond what you currently have. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by EightyDuce

[Hoirtel]

On 7/21/2023 at 2:46 PM, EightyDuce said:

If you're getting some performance issues, I would make sure that your ram is infact stable (linpack, ycruncher, superpi, p95, testmem5) . Memory instability presents itself in strange ways. Also, before you go on your venture, just know that benefit from bringing CAS latency 30 will have nearly imperceptible impact on performance unless you are running benchmarks (from where you're at with BZ settings). For example, you probably already went from high 50's GBps read/copy to mid to high 60's GBps and dropped latency from 70's ms to low 60s or high 50 ms. It will also potentially require a voltage increase or drop in frequency. 

DDR5 greatly benefits from secondary and tertiary timing tuning along with frequency, followed by infinity fabric. Instead of focusing on primary timings, I would see if you can push your kit to 6200 or 6400 mt/s, if you can't get 6400 or 6200, see how much you can push IF. 

That being said, from reading your post, and this is not meant as as insult, it appears you are very inexperienced when I comes to RAM tuning. Unless you are serious about learning at least some aspects of memory timings and interaction, I would just stick to BZ timings and move on with your life. You can quickly go down a rabbit hole for very little gain beyond what you currently have. 

 

Thanks for the information. I am not really experiencing perf issues like that. I am sure its DCS engine based, system is running so well, but just that final bit of fluidity needed for smooth VR in MT client only. The ST client is the smoothest I have ever had DCS, and at the highest settings. Its actually quite crazy. 

You are right I am not experienced with RAM tuning and would prefer to settle with what I have and move on if there isn't much to gain. I have little time and many other projects/rabbits holes. That being said if there were gains to have I probably would spend the time learning what I need the some of process which is what I did a few years ago when overclocking my i9. However I'm not into benching etc so once I was happy and it was stable I moved on and haven't gone back since. 

Having said all of the above it does appear like we might be soon getting a new AGESA, which will allow much higher memory settings... possibly 7200 C32 even. Wait and see, might be worth diving into after all. I guess it will be down to what my CPU can handle. 

[SilentSierra]

I forgot to post. Here my new setup. I tested DCS and it runs 180 FPS with all settings enabled and ultra in 1080p.

I waiting the HP Reverb G2 V2 to see if my new rig will perform well or I'll need to low some settings.

• Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix B650E-E
• CPU: Ryzen 7 7800X3D
• Memories: Kingston Fury Renegade 2x 32GB DDR5 6000MHz
• SSD: Kingston Fury Renegade 4TB 7300MB/s read 7000MB/s write
• GPU: Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 4090
• PSU: SuperFrame SF-G1000M 1000w
• Case: Cooler Master TD500 Mesh
• Water cooler: Cooler Master Master Liquid ML360 Illusion

Edited July 24, 2023 by SilentSierra

[kksnowbear]

Looks like it's a great setup which should perform well for quite some time to come

And it's also very good to see that you wisely decided to go with the manufacturer's recommended 1000W PSU.  (Admittedly I don't recognize the brand, but since you're not in the USA that doesn't necessarily mean anything).

I do sincerely hope you mounted the 360 radiator in the top, oriented to exhaust heated air from the case - yes?

Edited July 24, 2023 by kksnowbear

[SilentSierra]

1 hour ago, kksnowbear said:

Looks like it's a great setup which should perform well for quite some time to come

And it's also very good to see that you wisely decided to go with the manufacturer's recommended 1000W PSU.  (Admittedly I don't recognize the brand, but since you're not in the USA that doesn't necessarily mean anything).

I do sincerely hope you mounted the 360 radiator in the top, oriented to exhaust heated air from the case - yes?

 

Yes, I mounted the radiator on top.

The PSU is full modular developed by the same company in China who made XPG Core Reactor PSUs, but it is selled by a Brazilian brand. It have 80 Plus, TecLabs and Cybenetics certified as gold. It is ATX 3.0 and PCI-E 5.0 ready.

Edited July 24, 2023 by SilentSierra

[kksnowbear]

Beautiful I've seen many people mount radiators in the front of a case, and it's not a good choice (typically for a few reasons).

Mostly it's because they don't have a case to begin with that is adequate to properly mounting a 360 radiator so it will exhaust heat.  So they wind up mounting it in front, as an intake - which as I'm sure you know, according to the Law of Conservation of Energy, just makes everything inside warmer.  Really bad idea.

Much better to just get/use a proper case that is designed to accommodate big radiator(s) in optimal mounting configuration - as you obviously had the foresight to do

Never ceases to amaze me, people who obviously have money to buy very high-end hardware but then insist on cheap or under-rated power supplies, cases that aren't properly sized or ventilated, and/or components that are going to force poor build decisions (like dumping heat from a radiator inside the case).

Personally I believe if someone has money for really good high end components, then they should match the balance of a system build with other parts that are appropriate to the core components (GPU CPU, motherboard, RAM).  Why spend $2500+ on these and then use a small case or PSU just to save $50...???

On the PSU: I did a little quick looking around and, as I thought may be the case, it's a brand that's just not common in the states...but as you pointed out, it's made by the same Chinese outfit that makes other brands which are common here.  This is actually very common, with almost any brand of PSU these days.

Good show!  I am sure you'll be very happy with the new build

Edited July 25, 2023 by kksnowbear

[SilentSierra]

I'm very happy with my new rig.

Here in Brazil this new PC costs the price of an old car, but it's the cost devalued currency, high taxes and taxes over taxes.

I'm waiting to receive the HP Reverb G2 V2 to have my first impressions with VR in DCS.

Probably I'll feel bad with motion sickness in the first days, but the people who fly VR says that's amazing.

[Ganesh]

Am 24.7.2023 um 19:47 schrieb SilentSierra:

...I'm waiting to receive the HP Reverb G2 V2 to have my first impressions with VR in DCS.

Probably I'll feel bad with motion sickness in the first days, but the people who fly VR says that's amazing.

You will be overwhelmed with joy. It's a dream come true. Flightsim or gaming in VR in general is a completely different world. You enter a new dimension!

In DCS you can take it slow... first sit in the pit and admire everything. You are actually sitting IN the pit for the first time  not in front of it!

Then slowly roll towards the runway... this is where you will feel the first signs of nausea, especially in the curves of the taxiway, but you can slow down at any time.

Taking off isn't bad at all because it's straight ahead, it's an amazing feeling and believe me you'll take your time before your first barrel roll Oh, i remember my first flight in VR what a joy! Since joining VR (December '20) i've never played anything in 2D again.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Ganesh

[SilentSierra]

On 7/25/2023 at 5:51 PM, Ganesh said:

You will be overwhelmed with joy. It's a dream come true. Flightsim or gaming in VR in general is a completely different world. You enter a new dimension!

In DCS you can take it slow... first sit in the pit and admire everything. You are actually sitting IN the pit for the first time  not in front of it!

Then slowly roll towards the runway... this is where you will feel the first signs of nausea, especially in the curves of the taxiway, but you can slow down at any time.

Taking off isn't bad at all because it's straight ahead, it's an amazing feeling and believe me you'll take your time before your first barrel roll Oh, i remember my first flight in VR what a joy! Since joining VR (December '20) i've never played anything in 2D again.

 

Amazing. Only if you see through the lenses to believe in this VR stuff.

Looks so real, like you can touch the instruments of the cockpit.

I'm very satifect with my purchase. The entire PC run smoothly in VR.

[Nedum]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:51 PM, Ganesh said:

You will be overwhelmed with joy. It's a dream come true. Flightsim or gaming in VR in general is a completely different world. You enter a new dimension!

In DCS you can take it slow... first sit in the pit and admire everything. You are actually sitting IN the pit for the first time  not in front of it!

Then slowly roll towards the runway... this is where you will feel the first signs of nausea, especially in the curves of the taxiway, but you can slow down at any time.

Taking off isn't bad at all because it's straight ahead, it's an amazing feeling and believe me you'll take your time before your first barrel roll Oh, i remember my first flight in VR what a joy! Since joining VR (December '20) i've never played anything in 2D again.

 

Could be me who has written this.

By 100 % the same experience.

[Motomouse]

I am enjoying my 5600 & 3080 & Aero. No need to upgrade CPU now.

But if you like to test yourself, feel free to post your results.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Motomouse

[Gman109]

I'm looking for advice on the best AMD cpu to get right now.  I've been out of the game a lot the last year with some health problems (shattered my right leg, high energy impact comminuted fracture of the right leg, 8 breaks total and broke the ankle in 2 spots), and it's been a real biatch dealing with it.  Now that I have a bit better handle on things, I'm back into the DCS swing of things.

Issue - I have always had 2 or 3 gaming systems in the home as there are multiple PC gamers around.  I do have a 13900k, but also 2 10900k systems I was planning on upgrading to the new 14900 or 700kfs today.  After seeing some of the early reviews, it looks like the 14XXX is a bust, so I figured in the interim I'd upgrade the 10900 systems to AMD.  I have 4090s (just the regular Asus TUF cards, the cheapest other than Zotac, but good enough) in both already.  Primary question - which of the X3D AMD chips should I buy?  I'm pretty certain on the AMD5 MBs and RAM, but picking which of the 5800, 7800, 7900, and 7950 X3D chips is difficult based on the 50 videos and reviews I've read.  It seems so game to game, some games the 5800X3D handily beats the 7950X3D.  Lots of WTF moments this AM.  So, which of these is best for DCS and DCS only, and by what kind of % in terms of FPS performance in VR? I have a Reverb G2 that's sat for a year, and will probably get either an Aero, or maybe even try out the new Occulus/Meta Quest3 and QuestPro as well.  I also play 2D, I have an LG 27" 4k and a new Alienware 34" OLED.

I'm sold on the AMD idea mainly due to the AMD5 platform still having a ton of life in it, so plunking in new CPUs that come out over the next couple years will be simpler than a complete tear out of the system and components on 2 of our systems.  I'd also like to know the DCS performance though and what I'm getting into with that, without reading through all the threads here.

Thanks in advance.

[kksnowbear]

FWIW I think you have the right idea about AMD at the current time.

However, I am somewhat surprised to hear you're concerned about the 5800X3D beating a 7800X3D.  I'd be interested to hear more about that.

Also, just to be clear: The 5800X3D isn't AM5 - so that would address any concerns about future 'upgradability'.    You are correct in saying the AM5 has a future in front of it - but AM4 is already "maxed out" with a 5800X3D.  (I think you probably know this, but just to be sure).  So, I wouldn't be considering an AM4 platform if the intent is to do a total replacement.  Even if we assume 5800X3D is comparable to a 7800X3D, the latter has an upgrade path where the former does not.

HTH

 

[Gman109]

4 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

FWIW I think you have the right idea about AMD at the current time.

However, I am somewhat surprised to hear you're concerned about the 5800X3D beating a 7800X3D.  I'd be interested to hear more about that.

Also, just to be clear: The 5800X3D isn't AM5 - so that would address any concerns about future 'upgradability'.    You are correct in saying the AM5 has a future in front of it - but AM4 is already "maxed out" with a 5800X3D.  (I think you probably know this, but just to be sure).  So, I wouldn't be considering an AM4 platform if the intent is to do a total replacement.  Even if we assume 5800X3D is comparable to a 7800X3D, the latter has an upgrade path where the former does not.

HTH

 

Hah, like I said I've been out of action a while, and I never did pay nearly as much attention to AMD as Intel, and I'd forgotten that the 5800 was AM4 and not AM5 compatible, so thanks for the reminder, and that makes things a little bit simpler now.

Comes down to now really the 7800X3D, 7900X3D or 7950X3D.  $ isn't really an issue, however I also don't want to spend extra $ on the 7950 or 7900 if their performance only shades the 7800 by 5 %, if you get my drift.  10%, ya, that'll be a decision I'll have to think about for a short bit, any more than that and I'll just buy the 7900 or 7950 x 2 of them.  But that's what I came here to ask, those of you who have been using AMD in DCS, what are "the numbers" between the 3 AM5 CPUs.  

[Biggus]

41 minutes ago, Gman109 said:

It seems so game to game, some games the 5800X3D handily beats the 7950X3D.  Lots of WTF moments this AM.

I suspect this is because of the configuration of the 7900X3D and 7950X3D.  They are dual CCD, with the stacked cache only on one of the CCDs.  The 7800X3D is a single CCD.  For DCS, the 7800X3D should be the pick of the bunch because of this.

[kksnowbear]

14 minutes ago, Biggus said:

I suspect this is because of the configuration of the 7900X3D and 7950X3D.  They are dual CCD, with the stacked cache only on one of the CCDs.  The 7800X3D is a single CCD.  For DCS, the 7800X3D should be the pick of the bunch because of this.

Beat me to it But yes, this is pretty much the way it is.  It's the cache that gives these X3D chips their advantage, and only half of the 'cores' in a 7950/50X3D have access to the cache.

And for whatever it's worth, although the MT patch has helped, DCS is still a long way from what I'd call "good" core utilization...so having a lot of extra cores doesn't really make a lot of difference.  The majority of a CPU's ability is sitting there bored, based on what I've seen first hand.