Bigscreen VR HMD

[Callsign.Vega]

I cancelled my Bigscreen order when I found out the panels can only handle 90 Hz with dynamic screen compression at only 1920x1920 resolution. Then up-scaled by the panels to 2560x2560. I hate fuzzy up-scaled images, and 75 Hz is too low for me in VR. 90 Hz has always been the minimum for VR, even with the original Oculus Rift. Not going to run a measly 75 Hz to get the full 2560x2560. Add on top the glare, low brightness and poor edge clarity.

I'm going to wait for the Somnium or Deckard. 

[freehand]

I want one but not sure why lol.

[M0rph3u5]

 @Nedum

On 7/28/2023 at 12:50 PM, Nedum said:

The FoV is still the same as a Quest 2 horizontally, vertical it's still as small as the one from the Aero.

There is -> no eye-tracking <- If you know how much performance Foveated rendering will give you back, a VR-HMD without it is a huge back step.

The Battery lasts 6 - 8 hours with a USB power hub.

Where've you get that from, that the Tracking is so bad? I really would like to hear more about it?

While I am aware and agree with all the points that you have made re: FOV & lack of Fov.Rendering, the BSB is still very appealing taking into consideration the (1) extremely lightweight, (2) Cheaper price, and (3) fact that it sits perfectly on the designated user's face since it's constructed based on the individual's facial anatomy/features. Again this is a hugely subjective matter. Having said that for flight sims and DCS specifically, it's not really a great option.

Regarding the Pimax's tracking, I wasn't referring to the sitting flight sim experience but rather to tracking in other, more dynamic games like shooters e.g. Pavlov, half-life Alyx..etc, you can check out MRTV, SadlyBradly, and other folks. In fact, inside-out tracking is known to be inferior to lighthouse tracking. Once the controllers are behind your head/headset level for more than a few seconds, the software will try to predict where the controllers will be; similarly, when the controllers are too close to the face e.g. aiming down the sight.

@BazzaLB

On 7/28/2023 at 1:20 AM, BazzaLB said:

I tend to agree with a lot/most/all of what you said, but this is a tad disingenuous I think. The Aero has cooling, Eye tracking (this is honestly a game changer in VR) and a facial interface that can suit people other than 1 person (so you could sell it on easier). Sure it has visual anomolies people complain about (except youtubers with redemption vouchers on offer), like motion blur, Chromatic abberation, poor stereo overlap, pathetic Vertical FOV etc, but its hardly almost same specs. Its a lot more feature rich than that.

I totally agree with you, the specs aren't that close including of course the higher resolution of both Crystal/Aero compared to BSB, but I guess what I was getting at is despite the drawbacks of the BSB it is still a great contender and has it included more features e.g. IPD adjustment, a headphone jack (which is annoyingly missing as well), & fov. rendering, it would have not been that light in weight. 

TL;DR: "Bottom line, if you are planning to upgrade or get to VR, you'd better off waiting at least till the end of the year and I am pretty sure you won't regret it. Well, I know that I won't."

All in all, I find myself in the very same position that I was in 5 years ago when I was researching my first PCVR & at the time the only 2 available options were HTC Vive (hated the wand controllers but loved Steam tracking) & Oculus Rift (hated the sensors tracking but loved the controllers) until the Valve Index arrived which had the best of both worlds and my wait paid off. Ironically, the Valve Deckard is on the horizon which I hope will be as inclusive features-wise as the Index at the time. Another promising upcoming VR is Somnium V1 which hopefully will be coming to the market late this year as well.

My final thoughts: The BS Beyond although a very unique HMD and probably a no-brainer imho to get for an all-in-all improved and more immersive VR experience,  BSB is NOT a great option for DCS due to what I would like to refer to as the "4Fs" :

Foveated Rendering absence - arguably this is so crucial if you need to squeeze every bit of performance for texture clarity & FPS

FOV being restricted - No need to mention how important that is in Flight sims especially DCS

FPS being low- Another important factor for a smoother experience

Fixed IPD - probably the least relevant part to DCS or anything for that matters other than showing off your HMD or "Sharing"

P.S. I have compiled a list of all VR options which I am updating regularly (attached) and I am sure I am gonna be gobsmacked with whatever VR upgrade that I go with compared to my Index 

VR Options 2023.xlsx

Edited July 30, 2023 by M0rph3u5

[CybrSlydr]

If the big screen had eye tracking, I'd get it immediately. If it had eye tracking and better FOV, I'd throw myself at them.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

[cordite]

Anyone here get a BSB in there hands to try?

[hannibal]

i tried BSB last night on DCS. wow.. very sharp.. like aero

 

[Habu_69]

I have been using BsB HMD for couple of weeks and am very happy with the device. I use Quadviews fixed foviated rendering and 75 FPS setting. Excellent performance with DCS on a high-end PC: brightness, colors, sharpness, view smoothness with 2 base stations. Good clarity over about 50% of total FOV. Cost with required peripherals is admittedly pretty pricey, and a number of users, including yours truly, have needed to exchange headsets for corrected face gaskets and IPD, which is fixed on each device. The BsB support is great, however, and after getting the right fit the device is a marvel.

[GookaDuke]

Hi guys, my BSB arrived Monday (reaction video attached).  Going to have allot of questions for settings if that's ok, as I've been out the loop for years with DCS and new to VR but looking forward to getting back in especially after my first go!

[Habu_69]

For flight simmers a good DCS VR experience is unequaled. Settings for DCS VR will be dictated by your GPU, CPU, RAM and personal quality tolerance. You obviously need to adjust your seat position more forward. Have fun playing with settings to find YOUR sweet spot. Guess you got a good gasket and IPD fit.

[Marshallman]

18 hours ago, GookaDuke said:

Hi guys, my BSB arrived Monday (reaction video attached).  Going to have allot of questions for settings if that's ok, as I've been out the loop for years with DCS and new to VR but looking forward to getting back in especially after my first go!

I love your awe of being in the VR...it is mind blowing first few times....Great video!!

[hannibal]

20 hours ago, Habu_69 said:

I have been using BsB HMD for couple of weeks and am very happy with the device. I use Quadviews fixed foviated rendering and 75 FPS setting. Excellent performance with DCS on a high-end PC: brightness, colors, sharpness, view smoothness with 2 base stations. Good clarity over about 50% of total FOV. Cost with required peripherals is admittedly pretty pricey, and a number of users, including yours truly, have needed to exchange headsets for corrected face gaskets and IPD, which is fixed on each device. The BsB support is great, however, and after getting the right fit the device is a marvel.

you have to put me on to quad views... how do you do that?

i like the aero like quality, but the edge clarity is annoying.. i love that i can look anywhere by moving my eyes in a QUEST PRO.. but i can NOT do that with the BSB, i have to keep my eyes ahead more or less...

i think i got lucky, it was good fit from start... i was worried about exchanging different IPDs

Edited March 7, 2024 by hannibal

[Habu_69]

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated/wiki  BsB supports only fixed FR, not dynamic like Aero.

Edited March 7, 2024 by Habu_69

[GookaDuke]

Thanks guys, yeah I actually set up the BsB incorrectly initially which made me sit all the way back but after a fresh setup, it's seating position is now perfect and the quality somehow looks even better!  It's now running at 75fps /native...

I'm now in search of the best settings which I'm certain is going to take some time lol.

[GookaDuke]

On 3/7/2024 at 1:42 PM, Habu_69 said:

For flight simmers a good DCS VR experience is unequaled. Settings for DCS VR will be dictated by your GPU, CPU, RAM and personal quality tolerance. You obviously need to adjust your seat position more forward. Have fun playing with settings to find YOUR sweet spot. Guess you got a good gasket and IPD fit.

Ah yes, that's something I should have mentioned actually, as I know it's been contentious point for some users.  It's very comfortable, no light leakage and both eyes are 'tact sharp'.  It's a 67mm ipd, I was worried this seemed much wider than others reviewer were stating so I had it check at a local opticians they confirmed 66.5mm so I stuck with the original size/order and can't see how it could be improved.

[lawsjr]

There is an open source mod for the Bigscreen for eye tracking. You can do it yourself and 3dprint the parts needed. 

[GookaDuke]

On 3/15/2024 at 4:23 PM, lawsjr said:

There is an open source mod for the Bigscreen for eye tracking. You can do it yourself and 3dprint the parts needed. 

Yeah have Seen it, very interesting but I'll probably wait for Official release on a V2 something that technical.

[Decibel dB]

@GookaDuke Are you happy with your purchase? Looking forward to ear about your experience 

[kablamoman]

I've been running an Index for 4 years, with a focus on IL2 and DCS for the most part.

I was really looking forward to the BSB and making it my new daily driver as all the early influencer stuff, specs, and first impressions made it sound like it was a no-brainer upgrade from the Index. The kinds of things it was supposed to be really good at, were great for flight sims, while the tradeoffs were things I thought I would be fine with.

Unfortunately, this was not the case at all for me. Indeed, my experience with it has only served to highlight just what a champ of a headset the Index was for its time.

The biggest issues, without question, have to do with the miniscule tolerances required by the teeny hardware and optics. It quickly became apparent that the device has an extremely small sweet spot -- it is so small that simply moving your eyes is enough to leave it entirely. This makes the problem of the already smaller FOV much, much worse. It seems that anything outside of the immediate center of the lenses is blurred severely, which makes it feel like your view has been slathered in vaseline. I suspect that many of the complaints of excessive glare are largely (but not entirely) the result of this effect.

My initial unit had an IPD that was slightly too wide, and this presented big problems for convergence when looking at objects close to my face, like instrument panels or gunsight bases. Because the inner portions of the lenses were a blurry mess, it was impossible to see things clearly when they were up close. To Bigscreen's credit, their customer support is exemplary, and they worked to get me a replacement unit with an IPD 2mm narrower and this resolved the convergence problem for the most part, but with the new, narrower IPD, a larger portion of the outer edge became blurred. When dealing with customer support, I also requested a thinner facial interface, hoping that getting closer to the lenses would widen the sweet spot, and they obliged. However, when the replacement face gasket arrived, it was no thinner, and support informed me they couldn't get it any closer due in part to my face shape (more pronounced brow compared to my cheeks). In desperation, I cut away the excess from one of the gaskets and was able to get close enough for my eyelashes and even portions of my eye lids to make contact with the optics -- and while this helped somewhat (not enough), it also meant there was very little cushion left to soften the hard edges of the device and the vaunted comfort went out the window.

Even with the sweet spot maximized, the outer edges of the FOV are a blurry mess: This makes things like checking six require you to turn your head even more (whereas you could clear your six with the edge of your FOV in the index) or maintaining a basic scan of your panel while looking out front next to impossible. If you tilt or move the headset slightly to make more of the instrument panel (lower FOV) clear, the high 12 portions of your outside view become a mess.

Another problem is the oft boasted about OLED color: I don't know what people are smoking to not mention this, but another quirk of the areas outside the sweet spot is that colors are shifted to red in the vertical portions, and to blue/green on the sides. When fully half of your useable FOV sits in these areas, and the colors are shifted, it makes for a psychedelic experience, flying through with a blue/red/green sky. I was pretty shocked at this one, having fondly remembered the OLED colors in my old Vive. I think the reviewers are honestly on crack, here -- what good is "great color" if 50% of the display is color-shifted??? Both units I tested behaved identically in this regard.

Similarly, I also find that the great "low light", high-contrast performance is completely ruined by the poor brightness of the display in general. Pancake optics end up dissipating the panel's actual brightness and traditional LCD panels just amp up the brightness to compensate -- you can actually overdrive the BSB OLED panel to get similar brightness to say, an Index at 100%, but you will get terrible persistence: Think motion blur, whenever you move your head. I did run the BSB at 100% brightness as a middle ground -- but even without overdriving it above that, it still has noticeable persistence and is still too dim! This made the color and light in the night scenes lack "oomph", and the great blacks were smeared with glare anyway.

All this on top of the things I was already prepared to accept, like smaller FOV (not as easy to look up across the circle in a dogfight), and lack of the phenomenal audio solution of the Index.

I was actually looking forward to 75hz and a hard DP connection. I bought a 4090 to drive it and keep it above 75hz minimum at all times without motion smoothing or fixed-foveated rendering. The 4090 coupled with a 14900k did admirably even in demanding multiplayer scenarios and over large cities with the render resolution set to 80%. The headset was indeed very clear in the sweet spot. Impressively so. In addition to the form factor and comfort, clarity in the immediate center field of the display was probably what I enjoyed the most about the headset. That said, the persistence issues did take away from clarity of the panel/DP connection, as any kind of motion resulted in fine detail being smeared and lost.

For DCS, this headset just did not work out for me. I love what the company is trying to do. I love the focus on dedicated, no frills, high-performance, innovative PCVR. So, I'll not be returning it -- hell, I've even ordered the hard head strap, as the soft strap it comes with does not provide the experience the HMD deserves -- and I'm excited to see what they'll do in the future.

After trying to make it work, I gave up and went back to my Index (it really is a phenomenal headset), but the BSB also highlighted its one big weakness: Resolution. I was so bummed out I finally caved in and picked up a Quest 3 from a local retailer. The optics are absolutely stellar, and resolution isn't a problem -- the visual experience really is a worthy successor to the Index. I am still coming to terms with the lack of DP and the problems with encoding and streaming the display signal, but wireless has been a fun experiment so far. I really wanted to not like, and return the Q3, but it's looking like it's the main contender for my daily driver at this point.

Hope these impressions help.

Edited April 21, 2024 by kablamoman

[Habu_69]

I guess my visual acuity is less sharp than Kablamoman's and/or my standards less high, but, with respect, I offer a somewhat more temporate review of the BigScreen Beyond from his. I came to the BsB from a G2 and have never experienced the visuals the Index provides. Admittedly, the BsB has a small FOV, but I estimate that the center 50% is usable for reading instruments in DCS cockpits. I also had to endure the inconvenience of exchanging the HMD for a smaller IPD unit. The face gasket, however, fit perfectly and comfortably with no light leaks whatsoever. I confess that I have not noticed the chromatic aberrations Kablamoman discusses, nor the glare others have complained about, and found the screen brightness, and of course the resolution, significantly better than that of the G2 and the total FOV quite comparable. I can understand how an ill-fitting face gasket could affect the apparent screen brightness. My high performance PC with the BigScreen Beyond delivers a steady 75 fps at quite high DCS visual settings.

In summary it is different strokes for different folks, I guess, and everyone's visual perception is different. Your mileage may vary.

[Habu_69]

Addendum. When looking for the chromatic aberration Kablamoman discussed, I did observe it; however, on my device the effect was so near the FOV limits I had not noticed it previously. I can just say that if upgrading from a G2 the improvement is dramatic. From other devices I cannot comment.

Edited April 21, 2024 by Habu_69

[kablamoman]

It’s not so much chromatic aberration in the sense that one might think. I don’t see it around edges or contrasting shapes — it’s the entire area of the screen outside the sweet spot. I find it especially apparent at my high twelve in the sim, usually a nice shade of sky blue. If my head is facing forward centered on the gunsight, I see the sky transition from blue to red as I progressively look up with my eyes along the front to top of the canopy.

I can adjust the HMD up slightly, or I can tilt it slightly to recenter the sweet spot a bit higher to eliminate the effect above, but then it becomes more pronounced at the bottom.

There is a similar green/blue color shift at the horizontal edges, but this tends to be less apparent to me against the sky backdrop we’re typically seeing in the sim.

By comparison, the Index provided a clear picture, and consistent colors and brightness through the entire FOV. With the head centered on the gunsight in the Mustang and sitting in my usual position, for example, I could glance up to above the top canopy strut, and down as far as the top of the weapons panel. Albeit, at a lower resolution in general.

The Quest 3 features even better edge-to-edge clarity, color uniformity and brightness, with just about the same FOV I could achieve in the Index. With the added benefit of being a higher resolution overall (though not quite as sharp as the BSB in the center field).

With the BSB in the Mustang, head centered on the gunsight, it was a struggle to read the airspeed gauge, and red color shift was apparent starting above the gunsight just below the top canopy frame.

To be clear, my facial interface/gasket fit wonderfully and comfort was great in the BSB with zero light bleed — I still found the screens to be excessively dim compared to the index, unless I overdrove the display brightness to 150% at which point persistence problems were unsuitable for even just turning my head. At 100%, persistence was still obviously there but a bit easier to put up with.

Edited April 21, 2024 by kablamoman

[Habu_69]

Yeah, strange. I do not see the color shift you refer to - only the FOV very edge color shift. Blue-green in the horizontal, red at verticals. Perhaps I won the headset lottery, but I do have old eyes.

[winghunter]

Thats what it looked like to me, a device comparable to the Q3 but at twice the price

[GookaDuke]

On 4/19/2024 at 2:58 PM, Decibel dB said:

@GookaDuke Are you happy with your purchase? Looking forward to ear about your experience 

Hey mate, overall yes! Even with the pimax light announcement (which is great) I still take BsB over the competition, there speaker strap is improved things further, though I'm happy with my Sundara's so won't be purchasing even if them seem a bit big/silly.

I've recently been playing msfs20 and noticed there is indeed more glare compared to dcs.  Not sure if that's because after a couple of months owning it, I'm starting to notice flaws or if its the textures, lighting, rendering processes are different to dcs.

I've also noticed the sweet spot more recently in the SR22 scanning both mfd's which are much wider than what I was use to in the Su27. This definitely needs improving in V2 but it's not a deal breaker due to small size for me.

The glare on the other hand is really annoying but even with the crystall light not having this issue, I just don't want to wear something that resembles the Spaceballs movie.

The Q3 was rulled out for me, due to display port and a meta product, such a shame.

Edited May 8, 2024 by GookaDuke

[Timmy51]

If you're flying Apache, the sweet spot isn't good enough for IHADSS and some parts of it will be blurred. I returned to my Aero because of that even though it is less comfortable for long sessions.