Switching to TWS?

[The_Cokester]

Hi guys, 

With the recent OB update the hornets radar flow has changed. RWS, then STT, then TWS. The question is, is the softkey the only way to switch to TWS? Is their a hotas function? Or do you just have to bind it? I feel like you having to remove your hands from the stick to switch to TWS isn’t necessarily right. But I’m probably wrong lol. Any help?

thanks!

[Harker]

You can switch to TWS, same as before, by using OSB 4. You don't need to press the DDI button either, you can switch by hovering over the radar mode (RWS) with the TDC. It'll expand the list, and you can select TWS from there.

[falcon_120]

Exactly, as Harker said. 

You can hover with the TDC and select the TWS. Why they didn't make it to an physical button in the HOTAS like in other jets I would not understand.

Apparently the real TDC in the throttle use a force sensing mechanism that lets you be really precise going for the different options, "PC-Mouse like". But I would never know unless one day i find a hornet parked in front of my house.... 

If you are not a realism freak you can always bind it to your HOTAS as I've done myself.

BTW, I know that the hornet has this neat function of saving a set of parameters like range,HRP, bars to a certain weapon, which i use a lot, I wonder if in the latest SW OFP/lots you could for example do the same including the TWS mode, so for example you use the sparrow WCS as your normal RWS wide search mode but when you go WCS forward to select the AMRAAM you directly enter in TWS...

Edited April 21, 2023 by falcon_120

[wilbur81]

Even with the increased TDC speed... I still find the "hover over option and click" method for radar options nearly impossible to do quickly. As has been said, just map it to your HOTAS. Here are the Radar ATTK Page functions I've mapped to mine:

Range

Mode

Data

Frame time

Set/Reset

Azimuth

Elevation

Manual/Auto (for TWS)

etc...   I rarely ever touch the DDI buttons when doing A/A. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by wilbur81

[The_Cokester]

On 4/21/2023 at 3:40 AM, Harker said:

You can switch to TWS, same as before, by using OSB 4. You don't need to press the DDI button either, you can switch by hovering over the radar mode (RWS) with the TDC. It'll expand the list, and you can select TWS from there.

I was hoping there was a dedicated hotas function like double clicking SCS right or something. Thanks for the answers guys.

[bfr]

31 minutes ago, The_Cokester said:

I was hoping there was a dedicated hotas function like double clicking SCS right or something. Thanks for the answers guys.

Yeah, it'd be nice to have something more dedicated. Yes you can map HOTAS to DDI buttons (and I have done for things like targeting pod zoom) but the big gotcha with that is it only really works on the assumption you're always using a specific DDI (e.g. right DDI).  And in the targeting pod case for the F18 then one of the zoom buttons is different depending on whether you're carrying the ATFFLIR or LITENING (which i've managed to configure but means using an additional HOTAS 2 way switch to select which pod i'm lugging around).

[mason.zh]

Like others already mentioned, I've tried to use TDC cursor to change radar mode in F18, however, I still found the best way is to map all essential radar modes to the joystick.

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by mason.zh

[escaner]

Yeah, it'd be nice to have something more dedicated. Yes you can map HOTAS to DDI buttons (and I have done for things like targeting pod zoom) but the big gotcha with that is it only really works on the assumption you're always using a specific DDI (e.g. right DDI).  And in the targeting pod case for the F18 then one of the zoom buttons is different depending on whether you're carrying the ATFFLIR or LITENING (which i've managed to configure but means using an additional HOTAS 2 way switch to select which pod i'm lugging around).

You do zoom in the tgp with the antenna elevation hotas controls, no need for further button mapping

[bfr]

1 hour ago, escaner said:

You do zoom in the tgp with the antenna elevation hotas controls, no need for further button mapping

Thank you very much, I didn't realise that axis performed both functions!  I will give it a try. I noticed the FOV button did multiple DDI pages (Mav, TPod) but never thought to try that axis with the zoom function.

Edited April 25, 2023 by bfr

[jaylw314]

On 4/24/2023 at 1:13 AM, The_Cokester said:

I was hoping there was a dedicated hotas function like double clicking SCS right or something. Thanks for the answers guys.

It's not in DCS, but as a workaround you can use Joystick Gremlin or some joystick firmware to set different bindings for button double-taps and long-presses.  You just want to make sure you're not using it in a module that interferes with (long-presses in the A-10C, for example)

[MARLAN_]

There is no shortcut IRL either sadly, this is just one of those things where it's just much easier to do in the real jet than by grabbing your mouse or whatever in DCS.

That said, following a timeline you'd typically be switching from RWS -> TWS at meld range which is about 30 seconds prior to shot range, so you have plenty of time to press it. In "emergent" situations you'd often be using an ACM mode anyway.

All that said, one "shortcut" you can use, is to SCS Right to enter FACQ/AACQ (depending on context) which will put your radar into STT on the track, then press PB10 (top right button) to enter TWS. It's 2 less button presses to deal with as this will initialize you into TWS AUTO.

[Temetre]

Am 21.4.2023 um 10:40 schrieb Harker:

you can switch by hovering over the radar mode (RWS) with the TDC. It'll expand the list, and you can select TWS from there.

Wow, thats such a useful feature and I never knew about it! Thx  

Am 27.4.2023 um 05:15 schrieb MARLAN_:

There is no shortcut IRL either sadly, this is just one of those things where it's just much easier to do in the real jet than by grabbing your mouse or whatever in DCS.

That said, following a timeline you'd typically be switching from RWS -> TWS at meld range which is about 30 seconds prior to shot range, so you have plenty of time to press it. In "emergent" situations you'd often be using an ACM mode anyway.

Maybe I misremember, but I vaguely remember people saying the F18 was basically always kept in TWS mode, as long as there wasnt a need to scan a large area? Like the F-18 radar suite was built around TWS, unlike the F-16.

[MARLAN_]

12 minutes ago, Temetre said:

Wow, thats such a useful feature and I never knew about it! Thx  

Maybe I misremember, but I vaguely remember people saying the F18 was basically always kept in TWS mode, as long as there wasnt a need to scan a large area? Like the F-18 radar suite was built around TWS, unlike the F-16.

Pre-meld you'd be in your radar sanitization set (RWS), post-meld you'd switch to your desired employment mode (TWS AUTO, TWS SCAN RAID, STT)

[Temetre]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb MARLAN_:

Pre-meld you'd be in your radar sanitization set (RWS), post-meld you'd switch to your desired employment mode (TWS AUTO, TWS SCAN RAID, STT)

Fair, maybe what Ive heard was specifically for when you already got hostiles identified or so. Gotta look up the F-18 stuff again, been a while.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Temetre

[Swift.]

2 hours ago, Temetre said:

Wow, thats such a useful feature and I never knew about it! Thx  

Maybe I misremember, but I vaguely remember people saying the F18 was basically always kept in TWS mode, as long as there wasnt a need to scan a large area? Like the F-18 radar suite was built around TWS, unlike the F-16.

Hornet (post MSI hornet at least) seems really really focused around RWS. To the point where it effectively acts like TWS would in other jets.

From RWS you can designate and launch on a track (be it onboard or offboard) and can quickly switch to STT through the various ACQ modes if the target under amraam attack starts going into R MEM etc. Or remaining in RWS and let the amraam guide onto the what track and track quality thereof you want.

[Temetre]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Swift.:

Hornet (post MSI hornet at least) seems really really focused around RWS. To the point where it effectively acts like TWS would in other jets.

From RWS you can designate and launch on a track (be it onboard or offboard) and can quickly switch to STT through the various ACQ modes if the target under amraam attack starts going into R MEM etc. Or remaining in RWS and let the amraam guide onto the what track and track quality thereof you want.

Wow really? Shows how little I know lol, I was just using TWS how it works so well.

Been learning the F-16 for a bit, now im motivated to dive a bit deeper into the hornet again!

[MarkyMark]

On 4/28/2023 at 12:32 PM, Temetre said:

Wow really? Shows how little I know lol, I was just using TWS how it works so well.

Been learning the F-16 for a bit, now im motivated to dive a bit deeper into the hornet again!

This is one reason I exclusively fly the hornet. After a few years, I’m still learning new things. Hell, I can barely even effectively use the ground radar (so that’s another 30-40 hours of practice to get proficient).   No time to learn anything else, the hornet is extremely deep and well done. Not to mention the best multi role aircraft (sorry falcon guys ) 

[Temetre]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb MarkyMark:

This is one reason I exclusively fly the hornet. After a few years, I’m still learning new things. Hell, I can barely even effectively use the ground radar (so that’s another 30-40 hours of practice to get proficient).   No time to learn anything else, the hornet is extremely deep and well done. Not to mention the best multi role aircraft (sorry falcon guys ) 

Tbh the Hornet ground radar seems kinda bugged in terms of visuals. It shouldnt look this bad, in reality it was used to identify vehicles, for example. The expand modes also dont seem to do much either.

I do like the F-18 for its powerful sensors, and big, informative screens. But I gotta admit, the G-limiter really makes me miss the Falcon. F-16 you got like 8G even with a central drop tank, but I just flew a clean F-18, full fuel tank, and did a turn at 500 knot...  the G-limit went down to 5.5... thats pretty rough man xD 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Temetre

[MarkyMark]

3 minutes ago, Temetre said:

Tbh the Hornet ground radar seems kinda bugged in terms of visuals. It shouldnt look this bad, in reality it was used to identify vehicles, for example. The expand modes also dont seem to do much either.

I do like the F-18 for its powerful sensors, and big, informative screens. But I gotta admit, the G-limiter really makes me miss the Falcon. F-16 you got like 8G even with a central drop tank, but I just flew a clean F-18, full fuel tank, and did a turn at 500 knot...  the G-limit went down to 5.5... thats pretty rough man xD 

 

Yeah, the ground radar looks like a bowl of mashed potatoes to me. I can’t figure out what’s going on with it most of the time. Which is why I probably need practice. 

[Temetre]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb MarkyMark:

Yeah, the ground radar looks like a bowl of mashed potatoes to me. I can’t figure out what’s going on with it most of the time. Which is why I probably need practice. 

I dont think youre not making a mistake, the radar is either bugged or unfinished. There is no way to improve it.

For comparision, the IRL F-16 radar is less capable in its A2G functions, but in DCS its way more usable and closer to reality than the F-18s.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Temetre

[gonvise]

On 4/30/2023 at 5:42 PM, Temetre said:

Tbh the Hornet ground radar seems kinda bugged in terms of visuals. It shouldnt look this bad, in reality it was used to identify vehicles, for example. The expand modes also dont seem to do much either.

I do like the F-18 for its powerful sensors, and big, informative screens. But I gotta admit, the G-limiter really makes me miss the Falcon. F-16 you got like 8G even with a central drop tank, but I just flew a clean F-18, full fuel tank, and did a turn at 500 knot...  the G-limit went down to 5.5... thats pretty rough man xD 

 

I guess you know, but the limit of G's can be overrided with Stick paddle...

 

[Temetre]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb gonvise:

I guess you know, but the limit of G's can be overrided with Stick paddle...

Of course, tho its only a 30% override. I feel like the realism-people here infected me and it feels like cheating when I use the paddle. So I try to fly without it (ofc not gonna judge anyone for using it either). One thing I noticed btw is, I feel like the 5.5 limit I sometimes hit is in relation to the wings bending? That makes it a bit less confusing why the limit would suddenly go down halfway into starting a turn.

Funny thing is tho, this made me read into G-limits, and theres actually a lot more g-limitations, especially in air-to-ground missions, than I knew. Even having a targeting pod on the F-16 is only rated to 7.3g, even Mavericks only got 6.5-6.0. Most bombs got 5.5. Makes a bit more sense why the clean Hornet is just 7.5 to 6.5G, more isnt really useful for its primary strike roles. The F-18 then auto-limits you to those values depending on equipment, but the F-16 apparently doesnt g-limit you at all, even in CAT 3.

But currently we dont have any G-damage implemented in relation to equipment. So over-g'ing your massive 3x bomb rack in an F-16 has little consequences, nor is it gonna hurt your TGPs functionality. I feel like air-to-ground missions are going to become a lot more difficult in the F-16, when g-damage for stores is implemented. Probably gonna cement the idea that the F-16 has a bit of a general edge in A2A, but the Hornet has very useful qualities in A2G.

Oh, and apparently at least the older ECM-pod got a 6G limit in itself? Thats gonna hurt the F-16, that thing is so useful in contested space. The Hornets internal jammer does as much G as the rest of the plane.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Temetre

[gonvise]

5 minutes ago, Temetre said:

Of course, tho its only a 30% override. I feel like the realism-people here infected me and it feels like cheating when I use the paddle. So I try to fly without it (ofc not gonna judge anyone for using it either). One thing I noticed btw is, I feel like the 5.5 limit I sometimes hit is in relation to the wings bending? That makes it a bit less confusing why the limit would suddenly go down halfway into starting a turn.

Funny thing is tho, this made me read into G-limits, and theres actually a lot more g-limitations, especially in air-to-ground missions, than I knew. Even having a targeting pod on the F-16 is only rated to 7.3g, even Mavericks only got 6.5-6.0. Most bombs got 5.5. Makes a bit more sense why the clean Hornet is just 7.5 to 6.5G, more isnt really useful for its primary strike roles. The F-18 then auto-limits you to those values depending on equipment, but the F-16 apparently doesnt g-limit you at all, even in CAT 3.

But currently we dont have any G-damage implemented in relation to equipment. So over-g'ing your massive 3x bomb rack in an F-16 has little consequences, nor is it gonna hurt your TGPs functionality. I feel like air-to-ground missions are going to become a lot more difficult in the F-16, when g-damage for stores is implemented. Probably gonna cement the idea that the F-16 has a bit of a general edge in A2A, but the Hornet has very useful qualities in A2G.

 

I understand you, I don't even have it mapped but sometimes I miss it... although it doesn't seem like a cheat to me, I understand that since structural damage is possible, a real pilot will use it in very few cases.

[Temetre]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb gonvise:

I understand you, I don't even have it mapped but sometimes I miss it... although it doesn't seem like a cheat to me, I understand that since structural damage is possible, a real pilot will use it in very few cases.

Of course its not cheating, the feature is realistic. And frankly, who knows how much it would be used in more desperate conflicts, where the USN/USAF/NATO doesnt got aerial supremacy? Whole navy-logic with limited Gs is to keep down cost and maintenance, and in war priorities change. 

But eg when I play liberation and train dogfights vs AI, I generally try to fly the aircraft in its normal flight regime. Ofc still gonna pull it when im in danger of crashing into the ground or if the alternative is death.

And if G-damage to stores is implemented, pulling that lever might actually damage gear like targeting pods. Maybe even the under-wing weapon stations with Aim-120s?