Autopilot BALT Not Working

[SharpeXB]

The BATL function on the autopilot doesn't work. I think this is because it won't engage if you don't have the stick centered but the game is now too sensitive and picks up any micro input. It wasn't this way before Stable 2.8.4.39731

BALT.trk

[markom]

Create a tiny dead zone for your stick.

[LeCuvier]

I just tried, and I do not see any change. It works for me, even though not always the first time. I use a VRP stick (Mongoos T-50) and I have no dead zone at all.

[speed-of-heat]

you can have a zero dead zone, but you need a good set of centering springs!

 

[Temetre]

What kind of deadzone you need, is completely dependant on your stick. Some sticks got a deadzone setting built into the onboard hardware (eg VKB sticks), other you need to set it in game or by software.

Some sticks deadzone also changes over the life. Best example isnt a joystick, but the Thumbsticks on 360 pads: They start of wobbly, requiring big ~10% deadzones, and it can get worse over time.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb LeCuvier:

I use a VRP stick (Mongoos T-50) and I have no dead zone at all.

I think its impossible to have a stick without a deadzone. Its either built into the hardware, or set by the onboard software of the controller. With Virpil I assume its the latter, check the configuration software if you want to see it.

My VKB got 3% deadzone set, looking at the configurator. Thats pretty low, makes it feel like there is no deadzone.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Temetre

[Tom Kazansky]

And the real Hornet stick has a deadzone too, so the pilot doesn't have to fiddle with the BALT hold? I doubt it. I guess Boeing/McDonnell Douglas implemented their autopilot with more tolerance to movement, but I have no proof.

[SharpeXB]

A dead zone will mess up your ability to fly particularly AAR. Not a good solution. This command was working fine previously, the problem has nothing to do with my stick.

9 hours ago, Tom Kazansky said:

And the real Hornet stick has a deadzone too, so the pilot doesn't have to fiddle with the BALT hold? I doubt it. I guess Boeing/McDonnell Douglas implemented their autopilot with more tolerance to movement, but I have no proof.

Right. I very much doubt the real aircraft is like this.  Imagine trying to drive a car with a dead zone in its steering  

Edited May 12, 2023 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

Recalibrating the stick through Windows seems to have helped. 

[Phantom711]

 

vor 14 Stunden schrieb SharpeXB:

Imagine trying to drive a car with a dead zone in its steering

You mean like any older car…? Especially before there was power steering…?!

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Phantom711 said:

 

You mean like any older car…? Especially before there was power steering…?!

Since that’s a mechanical linkage I doubt there’s a literal dead zone. Dead zones only exist in video games. Their best use is for defective controllers. 

[MAXsenna]

Since that’s a mechanical linkage I doubt there’s a literal dead zone. Dead zones only exist in video games. Their best use is for defective controllers. 

Deadzone in old cars is a very real thing. Legal limit in Norway is ≈ 5cm IIRC.
Drove a friend's Willy's Jeep that had been used in Korea, and you had to constantly compensate side to side all the time.
Good fun!

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[jackdaw]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:48 PM, SharpeXB said:

The BATL function on the autopilot doesn't work. I think this is because it won't engage if you don't have the stick centered but the game is now too sensitive and picks up any micro input. It wasn't this way before Stable 2.8.4.39731

BALT.trk 334.59 kB · 3 downloads

Have the same problem with the Hornet, with theA10C II you can be +/-3degrees on pitch which seems more likley

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Deadzone in old cars is a very real thing. Legal limit in Norway is ≈ 5cm IIRC.
Drove a friend's Willy's Jeep that had been used in Korea, and you had to constantly compensate side to side all the time.
Good fun!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

 

I hope that just the allowable slop in the tolerance and not an intentional feature. Like you say you’d be fighting to control it.

Edited May 14, 2023 by SharpeXB

[markom]

Nope, was a legal requirement.

[SharpeXB]

21 minutes ago, markom said:

Nope, was a legal requirement.

 I suppose so every bump in the road doesn’t yank your hands about. 
A better analogy for an airplane would be a motorcycle. Imagine that with a dead-zone in the handlebars. I can’t imagine an airplane has an intentional dead zone either. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

@markomPS that still makes no sense. If the car’s steering has a dead zone, then the front wheels are loose. That seems disastrous. I think we are not talking about the same thing. You must be referring to a less sensitive range of operation akin to a response curve. I can’t imagine there would be a literal dead zone in a real car like is possible in a game controller. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by SharpeXB

[markom]

Oh no, I am talking about "you turn the wheel fore 10 degrees and nothing happens"... I am not going to presume any age here, but... some of us are old enough to remember these.

Also, watch older movies. You will see people in them moving the steering wheel A LOT more than you do in the cars today. There was a reason for that :-).

[MAXsenna]

Oh no, I am talking about "you turn the wheel fore 10 degrees and nothing happens"... I am not going to presume any age here, but... some of us are old enough to remember these.
Also, watch older movies. You will see people in them moving the steering wheel A LOT more than you do in the cars today. There was a reason for that :-).

Exactly this!

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[Tom Kazansky]

And when you trim you shift the deadzone to the right or left or what ever in the real thing? How is that working?

[SharpeXB]

16 hours ago, markom said:

Oh no, I am talking about "you turn the wheel fore 10 degrees and nothing happens"... I am not going to presume any age here, but... some of us are old enough to remember these.

Also, watch older movies. You will see people in them moving the steering wheel A LOT more than you do in the cars today. There was a reason for that :-).

Cars without power steering had larger steering wheels for more leverage and they had a greater ratio (about 24:1 vs 14:1) so they moved more. Looser steering but not no steering. That’s what you’re perceiving.
Why on earth would you want a dead zone where you move the control and nothing happens? either IRL or a game?

13 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Exactly this!

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Link? Seriously this makes no sense. I understand cars having less responsive steering but the idea of literally moving the wheel and zero response makes no sense. Why would anyone engineer that?

I’ve driven a car like that but it would have been and old car in high school or something. Of course that’s too long ago to remember what it was like. I do recall you could hardly turn the wheel unless the car was moving. So it didn’t just move much on its own without the wheels like a dead zone would imply. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

On 5/14/2023 at 11:21 AM, markom said:

Nope, was a legal requirement.

The law is referring to an allowable tolerance, not requiring a deliberate dead zone by design.

”(b) Linkage play. Free play in the steering linkage shall not exceed one-quarter of an inch.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/570.7#:~:text=Free play in the steering linkage shall not exceed one,wheel bearings are correctly adjusted.

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by SharpeXB

[markom]

The laws I am referring to were from a different continent

[MAXsenna]

@SharpeXB
Are you deliberately misunderstanding?
I just told you, a Willy's Jeep from the in Korean war. It probably didn't have a deadzone factory new. And of course they didn't make a deadzone on purpose.
Linkage and fittings WILL deteriorate over time. That said, it's the only car I can remember having one.
I remembered incorrectly from my drivers ED. The rules in Norway is that the deadzone should not exceed 3cm.
Think veteran/vintage cars. Pretty sure you will not find a T-Ford without a deadzone.
I have no idea how this allies to aircraft, but the reason we can adjust a deadzone in the sim, is of course due to potentially faulty joysticks. Especially old ones with old school potentiometers before magnetic sensors became the norm.

Cheers!

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[SharpeXB]

19 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

@SharpeXB
Are you deliberately misunderstanding?
I just told you, a Willy's Jeep from the in Korean war. It probably didn't have a deadzone factory new. And of course they didn't make a deadzone on purpose.
Linkage and fittings WILL deteriorate over time. That said, it's the only car I can remember having one.
I remembered incorrectly from my drivers ED. The rules in Norway is that the deadzone should not exceed 3cm.
Think veteran/vintage cars. Pretty sure you will not find a T-Ford without a deadzone.
I have no idea how this allies to aircraft, but the reason we can adjust a deadzone in the sim, is of course due to potentially faulty joysticks. Especially old ones with old school potentiometers before magnetic sensors became the norm.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

We are saying the same thing then. Your wording makes it sound like you are disagreeing though.
A dead zone would make a car difficult to drive. It wouldn’t be put there intentionally the way games let you add one for a joystick. And a dead zone in a flight sim would make the plane difficult to control just like the old jeep. 

[MAXsenna]

We are saying the same thing then. Your wording makes it sound like you are disagreeing though.
A dead zone would make a car difficult to drive. It wouldn’t be put there intentionally the way games let you add one for a joystick. And a dead zone in a flight sim would make the plane difficult to control just like the old jeep. 

Ahhhhh! Okay, phew!
Yes, agree with this!
Deadzones are not wanted for obvious reasons. The only time I can think of are spiking potentiometers in old sticks.

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