correct as-is RF 114L curving a lot in flight

[Ian Boys UK]

I'm not saying this is a bug at all because I don't know how the real ones work but the RF Hellfires do a big lateral curve in flight, shooting off to the left or right before curving back towards the target, even in a mission with no wind. Is there a reason I don't know about?

Track attached

114L curve.trk

[AvroLanc]

Yes the curved trajectory is deliberately off-axis. It's curved to give the missile DBS - Doppler Beam Sharpening. Basically giving the seeker a high LOS rate vs ground speed vs terrain -to pick out the target against the ground clutter.  

You'll notice the LOBL shots have a much more direct trajectory. They don't need DBS, because they're already locked on.

Very nicely done by ED.

Edited May 18, 2023 by AvroLanc

[Ian Boys UK]

Ah thank you. It didn't work as I expected but I thought it was probably me just not knowing. Appreciated.

 

[Ian Boys UK]

Oh we finally have a weapon that can take out Tunguskas 

NICE!!

[Floyd1212]

Is there a way to predict which way it is going to come off the rail?  Maybe left wing flies out left and right wing flies out right or something?

They don't loft very high, so launching from behind cover requires some extra planning.

[NeedzWD40]

1 hour ago, Floyd1212 said:

Is there a way to predict which way it is going to come off the rail?

If the target is to the right of the missile, the missile will shift left, while if it's to the left, the missile will shift right. If it's close to the center, then it's a toss up if it goes left or right.

[Cyborg71]

Either way, when I finally fired the first Lima and it performed that little Tokyo drift before going ballistic I let out a silly satisfied giggle. 

I didn't know if it was accurate to real life - but it just looked correct.

Great work.

[Dniwe125]

AGM 114 L in real life: we can hit absolutely any target, and under any conditions
L modification in DCS : you accelerated more than 20 km / h , I'm sorry I won't hit , you have too much distance I need 3 kilometers , zero hits out of 16 , thanks ED , everything is very realistic, it looks right if it's supposedly the correct use of rockets ,
then I feel sorry for you

[TheGhostOfDefi]

I cant complain, those arent "Spamramm" Missiles. If people are facing issues may they can try locking targets LOBL with IAT. I dont know if this is a bug or not but i can even LOBL at sationary targets at over 8 km. Works pretty well except George but this is another topic.

[Hobel]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb Dniwe125:

AGM 114 L in real life: we can hit absolutely any target, and under any conditions
L modification in DCS : you accelerated more than 20 km / h , I'm sorry I won't hit , you have too much distance I need 3 kilometers , zero hits out of 16 , thanks ED , everything is very realistic, it looks right if it's supposedly the correct use of rockets ,
then I feel sorry for you

If you have problems post tracks of them and we can help you.   And also see if it is a user error or bug.     

 

 

In my opinion, it works great so far and even with crazy things....

https://youtu.be/N8etIJoIU2U

[Vakarian]

49 minutes ago, Dniwe125 said:

AGM 114 L in real life: we can hit absolutely any target, and under any conditions
...

Highly doubt that

[NeedzWD40]

52 minutes ago, Dniwe125 said:

AGM 114 L in real life: we can hit absolutely any target, and under any conditions
L modification in DCS : you accelerated more than 20 km / h , I'm sorry I won't hit , you have too much distance I need 3 kilometers , zero hits out of 16 , thanks ED , everything is very realistic, it looks right if it's supposedly the correct use of rockets ,
then I feel sorry for you

Uh, it actually really can't. See the setting on the WPN page when you have RF missiles selected? Says "2ND TARGET INHIBIT"? Basically, the missile can get two targets passed to it during launch. The reason for this is if it can't find the primary, it will fall back to the secondary. If it can't find either, it goes to the INS coordinates it has. It's up to the crew to ensure the best possible PK (in this context, "Probability of Kill"), which includes understanding the missile's envelope. Firing the missile on a maneuvering target at 8km has a very low PK.

I rigorously tested the AGM-114L yesterday and the only thing I had trouble killing were Mi-24s maneuvering at max range and fast movers. Crossing to about 6km made for a much greater hit rate on the Mi-24, and 4km were almost always hits. Tail on against a Su-25, I was able to make a shot at 3km and score a hit. Ground vehicles didn't matter, they couldn't maneuver fast enough to save their lives, plus moving vehicles were perfect for LOBL shots. You should always be trying to get a LOBL box on moving targets, it just takes a hair longer to make an acquisition.

[Dniwe125]

16 минут назад, NeedzWD40 сказал:

Uh, it actually really can't. See the setting on the WPN page when you have RF missiles selected? Says "2ND TARGET INHIBIT"? Basically, the missile can get two targets passed to it during launch. The reason for this is if it can't find the primary, it will fall back to the secondary. If it can't find either, it goes to the INS coordinates it has. It's up to the crew to ensure the best possible PK (in this context, "Probability of Kill"), which includes understanding the missile's envelope. Firing the missile on a maneuvering target at 8km has a very low PK.

I rigorously tested the AGM-114L yesterday and the only thing I had trouble killing were Mi-24s maneuvering at max range and fast movers. Crossing to about 6km made for a much greater hit rate on the Mi-24, and 4km were almost always hits. Tail on against a Su-25, I was able to make a shot at 3km and score a hit. Ground vehicles didn't matter, they couldn't maneuver fast enough to save their lives, plus moving vehicles were perfect for LOBL shots. You should always be trying to get a LOBL box on moving targets, it just takes a hair longer to make an acquisition.

I repeat once again, I fired from the pilot's seat at GROUND targets, used George to aim, at various targets that stand still, that is, somewhere from 5 km and a height of 300-500 meters in a hovering state, fired first at SHILKA, then at a truck, then into a tank, not a single missile hit the target, out of probably 50 missiles, only 4 hit,
This is ridiculous

[NeedzWD40]

26 minutes ago, Dniwe125 said:

used George to aim

George is having issues with the RF missiles currently, due to how he designates targets.

My testing was done from the front seat as I fly and fight from the front seat with no assistance from George. Since George is unable to utilize the LMC and IAT functions currently, this means that the data he passes off to the RF missiles is very spotty. The missile is very persnickety about the target data it receives.

[Dniwe125]

2 минуты назад, NeedzWD40 сказал:

George is having issues with the RF missiles currently, due to how he designates targets.

My testing was done from the front seat as I fly and fight from the front seat with no assistance from George. Since George is unable to utilize the LMC and IAT functions currently, this means that the data he passes off to the RF missiles is very spotty. The missile is very persnickety about the target data it receives.

In my opinion, it works great so far and even with crazy things.... © quote ED Closed Beta Testers Team

[Floyd1212]

I'm finding mixed results, and I haven't quite figured out why yet.

In SP, flying the Caucasus Target Range mission I can hit most targets from the CPG seat.  George can hit most targets if he settles down and lases properly before I tell him to fire.  (I did notice that when targeting the aircraft on the runway at the range that the missile will often hit short of the parked aircraft from my point of view.)

However, I hop into Tempest Blue Flash (cold start) and head out to enemy territory, then swap to the front seat and engage an enemy group from hover, every missile I fire either hits a different target to the right of the intended target, or hits the ground to the right of the intended target. It's possible that the missiles were all coming off the rail and going left in that scenario.)

Maybe it is a server latency issue and a larger mission is causing some problems?  The server wasn't very busy with players at the time, but there are a lot of units in the mission.

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

In my opinion, it works great so fa

I see that video is from the Target Range.  Have you flown on a large MP server?

[admiki]

49 minutes ago, Dniwe125 said:

I repeat once again, I fired from the pilot's seat at GROUND targets, used George to aim, at various targets that stand still, that is, somewhere from 5 km and a height of 300-500 meters in a hovering state, fired first at SHILKA, then at a truck, then into a tank, not a single missile hit the target, out of probably 50 missiles, only 4 hit,
This is ridiculous

Great attitude to take you seriously from now on. 

[Dniwe125]

6 минут назад, admiki сказал:

Great attitude to take you seriously from now on. 

explained as it is, sorry, used google translate

[Hobel]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Floyd1212:

I see that video is from the Target Range.  Have you flown on a large MP server?

No not yet but I understand your point and will do this soon.  

[NeedzWD40]

10 hours ago, Floyd1212 said:

every missile I fire either hits a different target to the right of the intended target, or hits the ground to the right of the intended target.

Wanted to follow onto this after I tested it in multiplayer, though not one quite as busy (still lots of units) and my experience wasn't quite as peculiar: the first AGM-114L launched would usually not go for the intended target, but every subsequent missile would. I then tried a hot start slot and got the same result, the first missile went for a different (though nearby) target, while every remaining missile would hit exactly what I wanted. Moving convoys, static targets, LOBL inhibited, it didn't matter after that first shot. I deliberately tried to confuse the missile with targets that were tightly packed and static, but this made no difference.

[Floyd1212]

11 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

Wanted to follow onto this after I tested it in multiplayer, though not one quite as busy (still lots of units) and my experience wasn't quite as peculiar: the first AGM-114L launched would usually not go for the intended target, but every subsequent missile would. I then tried a hot start slot and got the same result, the first missile went for a different (though nearby) target, while every remaining missile would hit exactly what I wanted. Moving convoys, static targets, LOBL inhibited, it didn't matter after that first shot. I deliberately tried to confuse the missile with targets that were tightly packed and static, but this made no difference.

I posted a video in this other thread to continue this conversation, as this thread is really about the curvy flight of the missiles, which is correct as-is.

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/326008-lima-hellfiresa-little-too-maddog/#comment-5222015