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LRLS discrepancy between ST and MT

tezak

By tezak
in Bugs and Problems

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BarTzi

BarTzi

Posted
Posted
On 6/16/2023 at 11:39 PM, abikns said:

Yes, my game is up-to-date and I used to see the light, before the MT version game out. Am I not supposed to see the light during day landings? Was it dimmed down? I used to see that light from 10 nm away in the past, now I don't see it at all.

 

Hit F9 and look at it closely. I don't think it's that visible from the cockpit during the day in DCS.

Str][ker

Str][ker

Posted
Posted

I honestly thought this was a known issue and then I see us being asked to provide a track file. Yikes. I should stop assuming things. 

I can definitely say that the LRLS is not working properly. In this video from Wags, you can start to see it at just under 20 nm. Wags then talks about it at around 14 nm. I have always been able to use this in the past until the MT release came out. Now I can not see the LRLS while flying. It's like it's not there at all. It's effectively useless. I have a video (linked below) which I recorded in Sinai of me landing at night on the 4YA server. Even at 1.5 miles you can't see the LRLS.. you can see the IFLOLS and the ramp lights only. This is in stark contrast to before the MT executable was released where I could clearly see it at night and during the day. I can provide track files if required of day and night landings.

The Super carrier manual states 10 nm so I don't know if it was to be adjusted down but it was instead dialed too far back?

"The Long-Range Laser Lineup System uses eye-safe, color-coded lasers to provide visual lineup information to approaching aircraft. These low intensity lasers are projected aft of the ship and are visible out to 10 miles at night."

Wags' video first visibility at around 20 nm.

 

 

Wags starting to talk about the LRLS  (14 nm)

 

 

My video starting at about 12 nm from carrier at night (MT open beta). No LRLS visible at all, even at 1-2 miles from carrier.

 

 

  • Like 3
Flappie

Flappie

Posted
Posted

@Str][ker Near. perfect. post. These videos are of great help, if only the last one came with the DCS track, which is the first thing we ask for . Without the track, all that I can say is: "indeed, it's not visible on your PC".

First, let me explain why I badly need tracks. Part of us -like myself- are benevolent testers. I for one don't land planes on carriers, because that's not what I'm into when playing DCS. I don't do AAR either. I don't like it, and I'm not paid to do it. Why would I bother? My favorite plane is the Viggen anyway.

In the absence of user tracks regarding DCS tasks I'm not familiar with, I sometimes try to make one by myself: when it comes to AAR and carrier landing, it is executed very poorly, and devs are not happy, telling me such things as "you're not in the glide slope". You bet I'm not. I don't usually fly this thing! That's one of the reasons I keep asking for tracks: I need a hand from you guys to perfectly execute tasks you do on a weekly basis.

If you accepted to provide a short DCS track, you'd give me the power to:

  1. See the problem with my own eyes on my own PC (the bug can now be tagged "reported") ,
  2. Send it to devs so they can see it with their own eyes on they own PC (the bug gets acknowledged by devs and they can plan a fix),
  3. Test a fix for it with my own eyes on my own PC (the bug is fixed... or not - the videos you provided are very useful at this stage).

If you don't, I wont be able to help on this one, sorry.

  • Like 10

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boerdi

boerdi

Posted
Posted (edited)

I will record a track as soon as I can.

Until then, here are my observations that I posted already in the Supercarrier Bugs forum:

 

Short version:

When MT released, LRLS didn't work at all

LRLS got patched (OB 2.8.6.41066 ?) but the lights are quite dim and difficult to see (even with current OB 2.8.6.41363)

 

Example of LRLS in OB 2.8.6.41066
Dim lights, difficult to see

 

Example of a pre-Multithread version (Turning final at 03:00)
LRLS looks bigger/puffier than in current MT build
Easy to spot at distance

 

Both examples with same graphics settings in 1440p

Edited by boerdi
Str][ker

Str][ker

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Flappie said:

@Str][ker Near. perfect. post. These videos are of great help, if only the last one came with the DCS track, which is the first thing we ask for . Without the track, all that I can say is: "indeed, it's not visible on your PC".

First, let me explain why I badly need tracks. Part of us -like myself- are benevolent testers. I for one don't land planes on carriers, because that's not what I'm into when playing DCS. I don't do AAR either. I don't like it, and I'm not paid to do it. Why would I bother? My favorite plane is the Viggen anyway.

In the absence of user tracks regarding DCS tasks I'm not familiar with, I sometimes try to make one by myself: when it comes to AAR and carrier landing, it is executed very poorly, and devs are not happy, telling me such things as "you're not in the glide slope". You bet I'm not. I don't usually fly this thing! That's one of the reasons I keep asking for tracks: I need a hand from you guys to perfectly execute tasks you do on a weekly basis.

If you accepted to provide a short DCS track, you'd give me the power to:

  1. See the problem with my own eyes on my own PC (the bug can now be tagged "reported") ,
  2. Send it to devs so they can see it with their own eyes on they own PC (the bug gets acknowledged by devs and they can plan a fix),
  3. Test a fix for it with my own eyes on my own PC (the bug is fixed... or not - the videos you provided are very useful at this stage).

If you don't, I wont be able to help on this one, sorry.

Thank you for your explanation of the need for tracks (it was helpful). So.. funny thing. I just fired up DCS with a night landing mission on the Sinai map and the LRLS is working now. I am guessing that it was just recently fixed (last patch)? I thought this had been fixed a while ago and then noticed it not working when flying using the previous patch version. Regardless, from my perspective, this is fixed. I also gave a daytime / bad weather CASE III approach in the Persian Gulf a try and the light was visible out quite far. I never really use it for CASE I landings so I never really noticed how visible it is in full daylight.

I am using: Open Beta (latest), Open-XR VR in a Varjo Aero headset using Dynamic Foveated Rendering. AMD 7950X3D, 64 GB DDR5 6GHz RAM, NVMe drive, 4090 Video card.

Flappie

Flappie

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Str][ker said:

So.. funny thing. I just fired up DCS with a night landing mission on the Sinai map and the LRLS is working now.

Yes, the June 8th update changelog mentioned it.

Quote
  • Fixed: MT - long range lineup light not visible

I'm glad if it works for you. Other users above don't seem to agree with you. Maybe ths issue occurs in broad daylight?

  • Like 1

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Flappie

Flappie

Posted
Posted

I talked with ED crew about this issue today. Chances are the Long Range Laser Light is not supposed to be visible in broad daylight, since it is a laser. I wanted to be sure about this one, so I checked several daylight landing footage and I just couldn't see the LRLS spot, not even once.

If anyone can find some footage showing LRLS working in broad daylight, this is the right time to post it here.

In the absence of such proof, consider MT to be correct as is (light visible at night, invisible in daylight) and ST in need of a fix.

 

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boerdi

boerdi

Posted
Posted (edited)

No objections from me!
Seems we all got used to a pre-MT LRLS that was too bright 😀

 

And the "old" LRLS in-game sounds like what the Navy wants IRL in the future 😆

https://www.sbir.gov/node/1208423

"OBJECTIVE: Develop an Enhanced Long Range Line-up System (E-LRLS) which can meet/exceed the current LRLS range performance requirements with significant reductions in form factor and weight. 

DESCRIPTION: The current LRLS gives the pilot an indication of the deviation away from the landing centerline, as well as an "on-course" indication. It uses Helium-Neon (He-Ne) laser technology to precisely shape and aim visible beams into corridors that are encoded in color and in blinking rate."

[...]

"Issues with the current system include obsolescence, high cost to maintain, excessive size/weight, and a difficulty in projecting the light beam at the required range through poor weather and cloud cover. The Navy desires a new system capable of providing precision long range visual guidance for a pilot on final approach. The system must be easily interpreted by pilots, usable at a distance of at least 10 nmi in clear weather with a desired objective to be used in all weather conditions, and with significant reductions in form factor and weight."

 

 

[edit]

 

A former Growler pilot gave me this answer:

 

image.png

Edited by boerdi
  • Like 2
rob10

rob10

Posted
Posted

I miss having it during the day (since this is a hobby, so I don't do enough landings to have a really good sight picture of where I should be even during the day 😳), but I actually figured it not being bright enough during the day to show up might be correct.  I get why they might not use it during day, especially if it would cause "wear" on the system and require more maintenance when the good 'ole MK1 eyeball should be enough.

  • BIGNEWY changed the title to LRLS discrepancy between ST and MT
Furiz

Furiz

Posted
Posted
On 6/30/2023 at 7:23 AM, boerdi said:

A former Growler pilot gave me this answer:

 

image.png

As  you can see in his videos for example, I think they are sometimes on I've watched through 5 or 6 of his carrier recoveries and I think I saw a glimpse of that light during daytime, but anyway if its there it is very hard to see.

 

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