Apple's new headset ?

[dburne]

24 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s hard to tell what 4,000 PPI means. 4,000 pixels for a 1” display? 4,000p? I can’t imagine any PC being able to handle that even in 2D let alone VR. And this isn’t even PCVR but a standalone. So you can see legless Meta cat avatars in Horizon Worlds in 20/20 clarity?

 

Pretty sure Horizon Worlds is on it's death bed. Zuck keeps trying to create a market where there is none and then other big players try to follow them into the abyss. Not a bad strategy but not always easy to accomplish. 

 

[DirtyMike0330]

10 minutes ago, Slippa said:

 “Not interested that much”. 
 

If I were completely disinterested I wouldn’t have looked in, did you consider that? Also interesting to see others using a similar set up to me starting a thread discussing it. 
 

I missed your appointment as, well, anything constructive really but always a pleasure sweetheart, opinions are like arses, we’ve all got em. Don’t be upset, buy yourself a headset or something, maybe one of these. You’d be well placed to give everyone your judgement then and better inform everybody. 

Nope, I just stopped considering once I determined that you are a douchebag. 

Buy myself a headset  I won't dive into how uninformed you are, since a cursory glance at my signature and forum contributions would easily highlight how absolutely stupid that comment was, but, hey, keep using cute quotes and your 6 year old mac to make yourself feel fancy.  

[Rodeo]

… so anyways back on topic. I am full card carrying Apple Cultist but in regards to the headset and DCS the issue is going to be with any next gen system is how well will it integrate within DCS. I jumped head first into VR last year with the Pimax 8kx and not knowing anything my first impression was “amazing”. I took delivery of it the same week the Pimax OpenXR tool was released. But after a year and all the changes with MT and just the lack of quality, IMHO, of Pimax I abandoned it. Just within the last month I switched to the Aero and I am so happy I did.  
 

I say all that because now having both “high end” headsets and my experiences with them in DCS I do not see the need (although I understand the desire) to put the money towards any of the soon to be released headset. I don’t think the internal game mechanics of DCS will be able to keep up with the next Gen technologies.
 

Not to sound like an Aero fan boy (which I guess I now am) but I think that it is a great balance of performance and technologies for DCS. I don’t see ED creating a system that the Aero will become obsolete but only will become better. Be it the new Apple headset or Pimax 12kx or even one of Varjo’s current professional grade if the ED/DCS program doesn’t support the new technologies you will be wasting money. 

[Steel Jaw]

Aero...LMAO, $2000, WHO CAN AFFORD THAT????

[nikoel]

6 hours ago, Steel Jaw said:

Aero...LMAO, $2000, WHO CAN AFFORD THAT????

Probably most of the people posting here can

I can not speak for anyone but myself. But I chose not to because I had a 6900XT so a Quest Pro was the best I could buy. Except for some shortcomings compared to its Meta counterpart Aero is currently best *consumer level* headset we have for DCS - with the Quest Pro being an uncomfortably close second (especially for the $ )

Edited June 3, 2023 by nikoel

[Rodeo]

10 hours ago, Steel Jaw said:

Aero...LMAO, $2000, WHO CAN AFFORD THAT????

You can too with an attitude like yours.. here is a list of opportunities  that might help… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multi-level_marketing_companies

I went a little more difficult route by building a company from scratch but that just my personal work ethic. 
 

BTW this thread is about an Apple Product… nothing Apple does is cheap so discussing higher priced headsets is appropriate for this discussion. 

[SharpeXB]

15 hours ago, Steel Jaw said:

Aero...LMAO, $2000, WHO CAN AFFORD THAT????

It’s not the cost so much as the appeal or use of it. DVD players cost as much at one time but everyone could see the use and appeal of those. Now you can buy one for less than a DVD. But VR hasn’t found any mainstream use or appeal. It’s as if HMD makers ascribe to the “if you build it they will come” mentality. So if Apple builds one will it be so great as to overcome this hurtle? just by the virtue of it being Apple? And ironically I think the pandemic put a quash on the whole VR affair because people aren’t willing to share headsets anymore, so a company would have to buy one for everyone (at $3k each?). Amazing, the last thing I was doing before the lockdown was attending a meeting where everyone was sharing a VR headset, that’s never going to happen again. Oddly enough “virtual” VR meetings required you to attend in person in order to bring along all the hardware. That world is gone now in favor of Zoom calls. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by SharpeXB

[Mogster]

I abandoned my early Rift and DCS VR a volume of years back. However I am a sucker for Apple’s ridiculously expensive gear, so this has me interested. Apple do make nice but very very expensive screens.
 

This is supposed to be a dev model? I’d take the suggested prices with a pinch of salt. Apple’s gear has a habit of being rumored as being phenomenally expensive but then appears and is just  very expensive… Surely in this niche Apple would be stupid to exclude PC gamers with their deep pockets.

[SharpeXB]

2 minutes ago, Mogster said:

Surely in this niche Apple would be stupid to exclude PC gamers with their deep pockets.

Such gamers are a tiny tiny fraction of the market. But yeah excluding the Windows ecosystem would be a huge blunder. I can’t imagine it would be exclusive to OSX

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, Rodeo said:

here is a list of opportunities  that might help… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multi-level_marketing_companies

Off topic but what a rip off!

[Temetre]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb SharpeXB:

Such gamers are a tiny tiny fraction of the market. But yeah excluding the Windows ecosystem would be a huge blunder. I can’t imagine it would be exclusive to OSX

Its probably the biggest niche in VR tho, after maybe onboard-quest stuff. But Facebook has screwed up hard trying to monopolize an ecosystem, without a plan of what they actually wanted.

VR just has the problem of being very niche by design, its clunky, expensive, needs a lot of processing power. The devices are complex, its like strapping an entire gaming PC including peripherie to your head. Sure its mobile hardware, but even PCVR requires super low latency processing of screens, controls and positioining systems at the same time. Lots of software to make it work together as well.

You really gotta try to broaden the appeal with this stuff.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Temetre

[SharpeXB]

10 minutes ago, Temetre said:

Its probably the biggest niche in VR tho, after maybe onboard-quest stuff.

Less than 2% of the PC and console gaming market uses VR. So clearly they need to target something beyond gaming to sell these things. The question is, what’s that? So far there hasn’t been an answer. 

[Temetre]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb SharpeXB:

Less than 2% of the PC and console gaming market uses VR. So clearly they need to target something beyond gaming to sell these things. The question is, what’s that? So far there hasn’t been an answer. 

Imo why companies serious about VR should start where the biggest audience is. And thats the PC/quest/console audience. The chance of jsut untapping a completely new audience is unlikely.

Especially because you cant really do "casual" VR. It takes money and time investment, and tech understanding for PCVR.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Temetre

[SharpeXB]

24 minutes ago, Temetre said:

Imo why companies serious about VR should start where the biggest audience is. And thats the PC/quest/console audience. The chance of jsut untapping a completely new audience is unlikely.

Especially because you cant really do "casual" VR. It takes money and time investment, and tech understanding for PCVR.

 

So far VR hasn’t figured out apps that make the headsets worthwhile. Especially a $3,000 one. Sure DCS in VR seems cool but this genre is a tiny tiny fraction of the market. 
What’s telling to me is that given what I do and the clients I work for. My work should be heavily into VR but the hype seems to just be gone. Not a good sign for the future of VR. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by SharpeXB

[Rodeo]

6 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Less than 2% of the PC and console gaming market uses VR. So clearly they need to target something beyond gaming to sell these things. The question is, what’s that? So far there hasn’t been an answer. 

It is targetwe to the Wall Street and Worldwide business analysts that only care about headlines and “emerging” technologies. Apple is one of the best at playing that game although they have a proven track record with world changing ideas. Facebook/Meta was hoping to be the “first” in the VR space for profit and once again Zuck proved he is a one hit wonder (only success is actual creation of FB). 
 

Sorry I got off topic.. could I interest you in some Tupperware or Avon or better yet the health benefits of essential oils 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Rodeo said:

Apple is one of the best at playing that game although they have a proven track record with world changing ideas.

Well not everything they touch turns to gold

https://startuptalky.com/apple-failed-products/

[Rodeo]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Well not everything they touch turns to gold

https://startuptalky.com/apple-failed-products/

So true 

[kerlcat]

No matter if it might be another apple-failed-product in the market. Without any doubt, it will create a new baseline of VIRTUAL REALITY and put Quest Pro in shame (1832x1920 per eye in 2023 as "Pro" @$1499 of launch price, really?).  

Even Apple's XR headset is very unlikely to be used with DCS in Windows and super expensive, still full of curious to see what level this tech giant could bring VR to. Let's find out soon in some hours. One thing for sure. It will anchor the new standard of VR headset in near future for us. I hate to wait for another 3-4 yrs to see "next-gen" VR coming with another routine upgrade. I am dying to fly into "reality" in DCS but 720P/1080P level of clarity. Someone pls wake me up pls... 

[Callsign.Vega]

If you could connect it to PC for VR, it's going to be an instant buy for me. But alas, I think the chances of that are almost zero. Apple really hate's PC/Windows. 

[BazzaLB]

it'll keep nagging you inside the headset to update your software every 5 minutes!

 

EDIT: I just realised this is my first post here.. Apologies for the complete lack of creativity and interesting data contained within. I just hate Apple's ecosystem with a passion that I couldn't resist posting. Having said that, I am indeed interested in what they have to offer for sheer technical curiosity sake.

Edited June 5, 2023 by BazzaLB

[ackattacker]

7 hours ago, kerlcat said:

No matter if it might be another apple-failed-product in the market. Without any doubt, it will create a new baseline of VIRTUAL REALITY and put Quest Pro in shame (1832x1920 per eye in 2023 as "Pro" @$1499 of launch price, really?).  

 

The 4k x 4k displays in the Apple (made by Sony) are coming soon to other headsets. The big problem right now would be driving that resolution, it's like running four 4k monitors at once. Good, effecient foveated rendering and foveated transport are going to be critical to make that work. 

[kerlcat]

25 minutes ago, ackattacker said:

The 4k x 4k displays in the Apple (made by Sony) are coming soon to other headsets. The big problem right now would be driving that resolution, it's like running four 4k monitors at once. Good, effecient foveated rendering and foveated transport are going to be critical to make that work. 

Will see how close that leaked rumor to the fact in a few hours. 

It's technically not a big challenge with today's top tier GPUs to drive 4k + 4k... Varjo, Crystal, 8kX are all in that zone. At least playable around 60Hz. 

Wonder how M2 level of chips to drive such heavy duty which 4090 could bearly handle. 

1 hour ago, BazzaLB said:

it'll keep nagging you inside the headset to update your software every 5 minutes!

 

EDIT: I just realised this is my first post here.. Apologies for the complete lack of creativity and interesting data contained within. I just hate Apple's ecosystem with a passion that I couldn't resist posting. Having said that, I am indeed interested in what they have to offer for sheer technical curiosity sake.

 

Congrats your 1st post with motion.

If anyone hate ecosystem, then Android is the way for openess (or chaos). So yes, I prefer to stay inside the "castle". Seems I am getting into a potential "war". Let's watch Apple's special event. Yeah！

[Callsign.Vega]

21 minutes ago, kerlcat said:

Will see how close that leaked rumor to the fact in a few hours. 

It's technically not a big challenge with today's top tier GPUs to drive 4k + 4k... Varjo, Crystal, 8kX are all in that zone. At least playable around 60Hz. 

 

No they aren't. Varjo is 15.7 mil pixels, Crystal is 16.6 mil pixels. If the 4000x4000 resolution panel rumor in the Apple is true, which is likely, that's 32 mil pixels. Double the demand of the Aero and Crystal. 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Callsign.Vega

[Hiob]

1 minute ago, Callsign.Vega said:

No they aren't. Varjo is 15.7 mil pixels, Crystal is 16.6 mil pixels. If the 4000x4000 resolution panel rumor in the Apple is true, which is likely, that's 32 mil pixels. Double the demand of the Aero and Crystal. 

 

The amount of physical pixels isn't necessarily the amount of logical pixel that need to be adressed. Apple is infamous for such marketing trickery....

think of sub-pixel etc.....

However. Apple is usually not reinventing the wheel, but refining it thoroughly (and slapping an ungodly price tag on it...)

We will see

[ackattacker]

30 minutes ago, kerlcat said:

 

It's technically not a big challenge with today's top tier GPUs to drive 4k + 4k... Varjo, Crystal, 8kX are all in that zone. At least playable around 60Hz. 

Wonder how M2 level of chips to drive such heavy duty which 4090 could bearly handle. 

4000x4000 x 2 is about the same as an "8k" monitor... 7680x4320... a 4090 can drive it l, but not AAA games at 120fps... a lot depends on what you are trying to display. Productivity, AR, simple polygon games would be no problem with 2xM1. But DCS would be nigh impossible I think at that resolution. I guess we'll find out!