investigating George as CPG stops slaving after engaging first target/Can't Safe weapons

[KeyserSoze62]

I saw some similar posts but not exactly this description so apologies if we think this is already reported. This is new since last update for me. I start a mission as Back Seat with George AI as CPG.  I bring up George. WAS any weapon. Direct George to Slave. He will slave over reliably until I lock on and Lase first target.  Whether I engage the target or not he will not Slave anymore after the first target.  I have tried wasing any other weapon, de-was, turning him off and back on and back and forth but nothing brings him back. He will continue to WAS other weapons, will De-Was, will change from LOBL to LOAL, will change rocket counts etc.  He just wont slave anymore.

I also cannot place the weapons back on Safe once this happens.  If I press the ARM/Safe button it just stays armed and keeps repeating "Weapons Armed."

Now what I feel pretty positive about is this only happens on Cold Start missions.  I ran a few Hot Starts and no problem. Went back to a Cold Start and it did it again on 2 missions and then was OK on the 3rd.

 I will try and get a track. Of course when i went to save it didn't do it.

[Tholozor]

Did you jump in the front seat and ensure the Laser Tracker switch on the Right Handgrip was set to Off instead of Auto?

[KeyserSoze62]

20 hours ago, Tholozor said:

Did you jump in the front seat and ensure the Laser Tracker switch on the Right Handgrip was set to Off instead of Auto?

Yes.  Did that during all the cold starts.

[VKing]

I got this bug in MP, and when I jumped into the front seat to try some manual control, George/the aircraft would turn slaving off when I tried to turn it on as the CPG, and switch back to the TADS after I to selected HMD. As CPG I could safe the aircraft, but as soon as I returned to the pilot's seat, George would unsafe it again.

[VKing]

Apache_George_CPG_Arm-Slave_bug_partial.trk

Here's a track in SP that shows part of what I saw when I had the bug previously. I don't know if this is a fully separate bug or not from George not safing the aircraft and refusing to slave again.

Towards the end of the track, when commanding George to disengage, instead of slaving the TADS to FXD, he slaves it for a short while and then deslaves, leaving the TADS space stabilized instead of fixed.

What's different in this instance is that George safed the aircraft and I could arm/disarm it at will, and George accepted the slave command again after not slaving the TADS back to FXD.

[DOG]

yes I have had this issue once in MP idk what causes it.

[ump104]

Jump into the CPG seat, set George's ACQ to "PHS", and then return to the pilot seat and that should make him useable.  It doesn't completely fix him (for example, he won't go back to a center position when you tell him to deslave), but it will make him playable again and allow you to safe/arm weapons, tell him where to look, etc.

Let me know if this works!

[Lord Vader]

Hey @KeyserSoze62

Thank you for the thorough explanation but we really need to see this happening, perhaps with a track or a video.

And @VKing

We're investigating this other issue. Thanks.

[VKing]

Apache_George_CPG_Arm-Slave_bug_full.trk

Managed to get a track of the full bug. @Lord Vader

Can confirm ump104's statement that switching to the CPG seat and changing acq source to PHS lets you use George again, albeit slightly broken.

[CapnCoke]

George Interface keys don't work except short left and short right. After switching to front seat and setting acq to PHS, George works normally.

[Lord Vader]

Hey @VKing

I watched both your tracks, the previous and this last one. Unfortunately they are a bit too long and you end up crashing before I can observe anything abnormal.

I ran my own tests and, although George sometimes will not realign TADS to the aircraft datum when commanding deslave, this happened only occasionally and after some time in mission with me. And I never got an instance where it refused to comply to commands after deslaving. So it's more like a nuisance than a bug, since it doesn't seriously affect the operation.

That being said, there is something going on here, but we need to catch it to understand what happens to cause the bug. Unfortunately the random nature of the bug makes this difficult.
Please keep monitoring this and try to capture the bug clearly, either with a track or with video capture. I will do that too.

[VKing]

5 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

Hey @VKing

I watched both your tracks, the previous and this last one. Unfortunately they are a bit too long and you end up crashing before I can observe anything abnormal.

I'd call that in itself somewhat abnormal, as I didn't crash while recording the tracks.

[Lord Vader]

Unfortunately tracks can sometimes have issues with long recordings. It's a system that can and will be improved in the future.

This is why, for now, we ask to make them as short as possible.

[VKing]

Due to the randomness of the bug, I haven't been able to get a shorter track, but playback works fine on my end, so I've gotten a recording showing what it looks like.

(The IHADSS decided to stick to my actual head as I was recording rather than the head position in the track, so that's why the symbology goes weird)

Every time George goes "Ah.. Aircraft's Armed" is a down command to cease, while any up commands to slave are ignored.

When I go to the CPG seat, I only ever switch to HMD as sight, the reset to TADS is automatic. Same with slaving, I only ever initiate the slave, all unslaving is automatic.

Edited June 14, 2023 by VKing

[CapnCoke]

I did the mission again to record a track (I think it's Saipan strike in Marianas) and didn't encounter the bug this time. It happened twice in a row from my last session which made me end up in this thread. I'll record a track next time if it happens.

[KeyserSoze62]

On 6/14/2023 at 2:06 PM, VKing said:

Due to the randomness of the bug, I haven't been able to get a shorter track, but playback works fine on my end, so I've gotten a recording showing what it looks like.

(The IHADSS decided to stick to my actual head as I was recording rather than the head position in the track, so that's why the symbology goes weird)

Every time George goes "Ah.. Aircraft's Armed" is a down command to cease, while any up commands to slave are ignored.

When I go to the CPG seat, I only ever switch to HMD as sight, the reset to TADS is automatic. Same with slaving, I only ever initiate the slave, all unslaving is automatic.

 

@VKing Thanks for sharing this video. I had to go out of town right after making this thread and never got around to sharing a track but your video shows the issues I was having perfectly.

[71st_Mastiff]

yes been happing; I was wondering if it was my button know I now its not.

 

todays update, Still an issue may be due to Lag on MP servers?

Edited June 22, 2023 by 71st_Mastiff

[Belphe]

I just had the same bug in a MP session. After launching the first missile, George stopped listening to my orders to "look at my LOS" using up-short command in his menu. I quickly realised that no matter what I do he wants to keep Master Arm ON. I tried switching seats and even landing to force the Master Arm OFF but as soon as I was airborne again, he would arm the aircraft. When sitting in the CPG's seat I noticed I cannot move my TADS with the analog joysticks anymore (having pressed the Sight Select Switch - TADS/Right first). They would produce a very short move of the TADS and then stop. After switching off the aircraft and jumping in the front seat for the last time I found this: 

Sight Select Switch - TADS/Right is being pressed multiple times pes second with no input. I triple checked and I had nothing bound to this function on any of my input devices. I'm sure this was interfering with me being unable to move TADS from the CPG's seat. Could it also be the cause of the endless "Aircraft Armed" bug you're talking about here? 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Belphe

[MstrCmdr]

Ive had this same crap. In addition if I hop into the CPG seat select HMD and then a ghost switches it to TADS

[BIGNEWY]

please attach short tracks if you have them. 

While George is being refined in our tests we are not seeing this issue, so any scenario where you do we would like to see it. 

It is important to make sure you are in range ( min / max ) and check LOS, I would also not rush George with commands, take time to be methodical with request to him, if you are spamming requests it will complicate the task. 

 

[VKing]

@BIGNEWY The track I posted has the bug in it. I don't understand how the replay thing works that you can't replay it; do you know if there's a way of getting partly through the replay and restarting the track recording or something like that?

[CapnCoke]

Just happened to me today while doing reservoir fight mission. Had to switch to front seat and set acquisition to PHS to fix it.

[Sulfa]

This fixed it for me as well. 

 

On 7/17/2023 at 7:35 AM, CapnCoke said:

Just happened to me today while doing reservoir fight mission. Had to switch to front seat and set acquisition to PHS to fix it.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Sulfa

[CervO]

Happened to me also for the first time two days ago on MP Grayflag. George won't respond anymore to the slave command. Couldn't find a way to fix it (didn't try what Sulfa did)  ... I am not on my computer now, will see if I have a track.

[KeyserSoze62]

This bug with George not engaging after first time is still not fixed even though 07/24/2023 update says it is.  It happened to me twice today.  I had to jump to front seat and reset acquisition to PHS to correct.