broken FFB trim

[Torbernite]

In the FM update an FFB support is stated. But with my G940 the force trim shows wrong behavior.

The normal behavior and I think your target is, when the force trim button is released, the FFB stick is kept at its current position as new center position, and no virtual offset is added. For example, when I move from (0,0) to (25,50) and release force trim, the FFB physical stick should stay at (25,50) when I don't touch it, and the final input to the game is (25,50).

But now its behavior is, when the force trim button is released, another virtual offset is added to the FFB device like it's not FFB. For the example above, the FFB physical stick stay at (25,50) but another (25,50) offset is added. That's to say, when I leave the stick at its physical new center position (25,50), the input to the game is offset to (50,100). If I want a normal (25,50) input, I have to pull the stick to its geometry center position (0,0) with forces. If I want a (-25,-50) input, I need (-50,-100) physical stick movement. And If I want a (-100,-100), it's impossible before the trim is moved again.

This virtual offset should be prepared for non-FFB devices, which need to back to its spring or rail center after releasing force trim. But in FFB devices the trim is already realized by the movement of center position, so the offset is repeated, making the trim totally broken.

[MAXsenna]

Always been like this for me.
I was hoping this would be fixed now.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Amarok_73]

7 hours ago, Torbernite said:

In the FM update an FFB support is stated. But with my G940 the force trim shows wrong behavior.

+1

[Torbernite]

6小时前，MAXsenna说：

Always been like this for me.
I was hoping this would be fixed now.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

 

2分钟前，Amarok_73说：

+1

Please try my temporary solution inspired by Anthony on discord.

Set the FFB force of Gazelle to 0 and cyclic trim mode to NONE. Then use a simFFB or VPforce or anything like that (depending on what stick you use, I use simFFB with G940) and set a trim in software to override the original broken FFB trim in game. Only start the software when flying Gazelle then other aircraft will not be affected.

[Amarok_73]

1 hour ago, Torbernite said:

 

Please try my temporary solution inspired by Anthony on discord.

Set the FFB force of Gazelle to 0 and cyclic trim mode to NONE. Then use a simFFB or VPforce or anything like that (depending on what stick you use, I use simFFB with G940) and set a trim in software to override the original broken FFB trim in game. Only start the software when flying Gazelle then other aircraft will not be affected.

Nah, I'll rather wait for the proper FFB implementation. SimFFB is good when flying only one machine, what is not my case.
But thanks for the interest anyway.

[MAXsenna]

Nah, I'll rather wait for the proper FFB implementation. SimFFB is good when flying only one machine, what is not my case.
But thanks for the interest anyway.

Agreed! I used simFFB in the free UH-60L module, as it has the exact same issue regarding FFB trimming. (Same coder?)
But in a paid module, I expect it to work.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Stal2k]

Same deal with the VPforce stick if it matters. Shame I thought this was a new bug and would be sorted soon. 

 

Kind of like the other guy the workaround isn't really feasible unless I was doing like a campaign or something and flying it long term. 

[Lt_Jaeger]

12 hours ago, Stal2k said:

Same deal with the VPforce stick if it matters. Shame I thought this was a new bug and would be sorted soon. 

 

Kind of like the other guy the workaround isn't really feasible unless I was doing like a campaign or something and flying it long term. 

I use the Rhino as well. Even so I only hop in the Gazelle only once in  awhile, I made a profile for it. So it is just a matter of clicking a couple of times and all is working fine. 

After the session, I load my standard F-14 profile, or that gets restored after I restart my system automatically. 

[MAXsenna]

I use the Rhino as well. Even so I only hop in the Gazelle only once in  awhile, I made a profile for it. So it is just a matter of clicking a couple of times and all is working fine. 
After the session, I load my standard F-14 profile, or that gets restored after I restart my system automatically. 

Are you saying you don't get the faulty trimmer in the Gaz as others have reported?

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[RealDCSpilot]

The faulty trimmer is the same for everyone. He is talking about the VPforce software option, you can apply force trim from the "outside". But you have to disable FFB in DCS or override and activate this option everytime you want to hop into the Gazelle.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by RealDCSpilot

[MAXsenna]

The faulty trimmer is the same for everyone. He is talking about the VPforce software option, you can apply force trim from the "outside". But you have to disable FFB in DCS or override and activate this option everytime you want to hop into the Gazelle.
 

Ah, I see. I really have to get me one of those!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Lt_Jaeger]

8 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

But you have to disable FFB in DCS or override and activate this option everytime you want to hop into the Gazelle.

Nope. The only thing you need to do is to implement a Gazelle profile in the Rhino FFB Software. You can override the DCS effects and use the force trim. If I switch to another airframe, I just choose the fitting profile and everything is "back to normal". 

I basically have a profile for every regularly used airframe, because I also switch grips around as well as use the software for airframe specify throw limits and force settings. 

You would be able to set shortcuts to start the respective profile from the desktop. 

3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

I really have to get me one of those!

Yeap, you have too. But beware, that thing is kind of expensive, but well worth it. Wonder how I could have been without one. 

That applies for all old school airframes. FBW is kind of dull, but these airframes are lifeless anyhow

 

[MAXsenna]

Yeap, you have too. But beware, that thing is kind of expensive, but well worth it. Wonder how I could have been without one. 
That applies for all old school airframes. FBW is kind of dull, but these airframes are lifeless anyhow
 

Yeah I know! Been following the project here and other places.
But it really seems worth it, though I'm not sure if I should get the completed on or make the base myself. Might do both as I need two. Sigh...

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Vita_CZ]

On 6/8/2023 at 6:24 PM, Torbernite said:

In the FM update an FFB support is stated. But with my G940 the force trim shows wrong behavior.

The normal behavior and I think your target is, when the force trim button is released, the FFB stick is kept at its current position as new center position, and no virtual offset is added. For example, when I move from (0,0) to (25,50) and release force trim, the FFB physical stick should stay at (25,50) when I don't touch it, and the final input to the game is (25,50).

But now its behavior is, when the force trim button is released, another virtual offset is added to the FFB device like it's not FFB. For the example above, the FFB physical stick stay at (25,50) but another (25,50) offset is added. That's to say, when I leave the stick at its physical new center position (25,50), the input to the game is offset to (50,100). If I want a normal (25,50) input, I have to pull the stick to its geometry center position (0,0) with forces. If I want a (-25,-50) input, I need (-50,-100) physical stick movement. And If I want a (-100,-100), it's impossible before the trim is moved again.

This virtual offset should be prepared for non-FFB devices, which need to back to its spring or rail center after releasing force trim. But in FFB devices the trim is already realized by the movement of center position, so the offset is repeated, making the trim totally broken.

Same here. Here is a short video to demonstrate this behavior.

This time with MS Sidewinder FF 2

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Vita_CZ

[Gunfreak]

Just tried the gazelle for the very first time today and I have the same bug as you all with my Brunner FFB base. Good to know it's not just a brunner problem (then it would never be fixed. ) but a shame they haven't fixed it.

 

Would be nice to get an official response!

[MAXsenna]

@Kinkkujuustovoileipä

Any chance you can comment on this?

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[swatstar98]

We are checking internally, will communicate if we find a solution

[jnr4817]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:33 AM, Lt_Jaeger said:

Nope. The only thing you need to do is to implement a Gazelle profile in the Rhino FFB Software. You can override the DCS effects and use the force trim. If I switch to another airframe, I just choose the fitting profile and everything is "back to normal". 

I basically have a profile for every regularly used airframe, because I also switch grips around as well as use the software for airframe specify throw limits and force settings. 

You would be able to set shortcuts to start the respective profile from the desktop. 

Yeap, you have too. But beware, that thing is kind of expensive, but well worth it. Wonder how I could have been without one. 

That applies for all old school airframes. FBW is kind of dull, but these airframes are lifeless anyhow

 

Will you please share your rhino profiles here or on their discord. I too am a rhino user. Thank you.

[Kinkkujuustovoileipä]

This will be fixed in the next Gazelle update. My apologies for messing this up in the first place.

[Gunfreak]

2 minutes ago, Kinkkujuustovoileipä said:

This will be fixed in the next Gazelle update. My apologies for messing this up in the first place.

Yay thank you!

[MAXsenna]

This will be fixed in the next Gazelle update. My apologies for messing this up in the first place.

Perfect!
Can't ask for a better response time!

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Lt_Jaeger]

15 hours ago, jnr4817 said:

Will you please share your rhino profiles here or on their discord. I too am a rhino user. Thank you.

Here you go, but mind, for the force trim I use loop back, since I currently use a VKB Grip with the Gazelle.

ffb_config.vpconf_heli_Gazelle.vpconf

[skypickle]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:33 AM, Lt_Jaeger said:

Nope. The only thing you need to do is to implement a Gazelle profile in the Rhino FFB Software. You can override the DCS effects and use the force trim. If I switch to another airframe, I just choose the fitting profile and everything is "back to normal". 

I basically have a profile for every regularly used airframe, because I also switch grips around as well as use the software for airframe specify throw limits and force settings. 

You would be able to set shortcuts to start the respective profile from the desktop. 

Yeap, you have too. But beware, that thing is kind of expensive, but well worth it. Wonder how I could have been without one. 

That applies for all old school airframes. FBW is kind of dull, but these airframes are lifeless anyhow

 

yeah i thought about doing that, but then i have to quit dcs and load the correct profile for the airframe i want to fly. is that what you do?

[Lt_Jaeger]

On 6/15/2023 at 4:50 PM, skypickle said:

yeah i thought about doing that, but then i have to quit dcs and load the correct profile for the airframe i want to fly. is that what you do?

No, you don't need to do that.

Start the Vpforce software, start DCS. If you want to switch the profile, tab out into the VP Software and load the profile you like and tab back into DCS and enjoy. 

[jnr4817]

On 6/16/2023 at 10:36 AM, Lt_Jaeger said:

No, you don't need to do that.

Start the Vpforce software, start DCS. If you want to switch the profile, tab out into the VP Software and load the profile you like and tab back into DCS and enjoy. 

Thanks homie, just figured that out.