Weird behavior of the ASL fall line for AUTO bombing

[davidp57]

Yesterday in a MP mission I was trying to make a loft AUTO bomb pass on a SA6, with a human WSO in the rear seat.

With my target point (6.A) selected, in A2G master mode, an AUTO program set up for my Mk20 Rockeyes, I expected to see the ASL lined up with the target point losange in the HUD. Well, it was not, in fact it went all over the place as I chased it.

I tried resetting the point, the program, going Master Arm off then on again, every trick in the "Hello, IT" guidebook

Eventually I noticed that even my CDIP fall line was weird, it kept my bomb cue at the centerline point and the line from the FPM was therefore going up, not down!

I made a small video, could you please have a look and tell me what I did wrong? 

[Holbeach]

@davidp57

 

Maybe it's connected with this.

 

 

..

Edited July 27, 2023 by Holbeach

[SmirkingGerbil]

I have experienced this.

Was using an older map (Syria), with assets and missions setup on it. ASL was always left or right of middle of Pipper and you could never line it up. Drops of dumb bombs was always long. Someone suggested to remove wind data, I did and same result. It was also suggested to start from scratch on a new map.

Used the new Sinai map, setup a simple bombing scenario, and ASL line was perfectly aligned with the target drop and dumb bombs hit correctly. I did this with MK82's and 84's. No wind was setup in ME, so I did not test to see if wind correction would work.
 

If needed, I can recreate, and upload log files for analysis.

[dporter22]

I've had the same problem. ASL line is often way off target.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I have had the most success flying directly into the wind while lining up.

Wind correction is indeed not being taken into account: not for bombing and not for navigation either. Hopefully we won’t have to wait too long to see that fixed

[davidrbarnette]

Ok, so this evening I noticed that when flying level, the ASL is off to the side of the target. When you bunt forward to descend and put the nose on the target, it drifts over and corrects the steering. If you pull back up to level out, it drifts off to one side again. Not sure why this is the case, but it indicates that if you aren’t descending at a steep enough angle that the ASL aligns with the target, you’ll miss to one side.

[KlarSnow]

That is very incorrect, the ASL should remain fixed, unless you fly into a different wind value, or change the bombs time of fall. In which case it will have to be a significant change in wind or bomb time of fall to change the ASL the way we are seeing it. 

Right now I really have no trust in the ASL or steering cues in any condition other than no wind.

makes it very difficult to employ the simplest of munitions dumb bombs on a jet who’s entire reason for existence is as a precision strike fighter.

[davidrbarnette]

35 minutes ago, KlarSnow said:

That is very incorrect, the ASL should remain fixed, unless you fly into a different wind value, or change the bombs time of fall. In which case it will have to be a significant change in wind or bomb time of fall to change the ASL the way we are seeing it. 

Right now I really have no trust in the ASL or steering cues in any condition other than no wind.

makes it very difficult to employ the simplest of munitions dumb bombs on a jet who’s entire reason for existence is as a precision strike fighter.

Agreed. It is definitely not the correct behavior, but that is what it is doing right now. The ASL seems to move significantly with the pitch of the aircraft. Weird stuff.

[davidp57]

Thanks for all your answers.

I'm not sure it's a matter of wind, or not this alone at the very least.

The CDIP line was _inverted_ for god's sake, so unless the wind was going up so much that the bombs would climb ...

Also, if it was simply a matter of wind correction (or lack of) the ASL would be fixed, albeit in a wrong position - but still fixed.

Here, it was fleeing as I was chasing it, as is the case when you're too close to release point (see my video).

 

[dporter22]

I've also had an inverted ASL. It's very broken.

[SloppyDog]

On 7/27/2023 at 4:45 AM, davidp57 said:

Yesterday in a MP mission I was trying to make a loft AUTO bomb pass on a SA6, with a human WSO in the rear seat.

With my target point (6.A) selected, in A2G master mode, an AUTO program set up for my Mk20 Rockeyes, I expected to see the ASL lined up with the target point losange in the HUD. Well, it was not, in fact it went all over the place as I chased it.

I tried resetting the point, the program, going Master Arm off then on again, every trick in the "Hello, IT" guidebook

Eventually I noticed that even my CDIP fall line was weird, it kept my bomb cue at the centerline point and the line from the FPM was therefore going up, not down!

I made a small video, could you please have a look and tell me what I did wrong? 

I'm seeing this behavior since the launch, the TGP diamond being right over the target, but the ASL much off of target. I measured it and got about 1,400 feet of difference from where the ASL is showing to the target point. My bombs do not fall long, but they do fall laterally off target.

My question is: are you using EGI (GPS) navigation or INS navigation? It seems to get worse with INS.

Also, I asked in the Razbam Discord, and NotSo (the SME) sais that they know the ASL is bugged and are working on it.

 

[shagrat]

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb SloppyDog:

Also, I asked in the Razbam Discord, and NotSo (the SME) sais that they know the ASL is bugged and are working on it.

 

This is good news!

So it is just waiting until it's fixed, but they've already put it on the list.

Thanks for the info.

[SloppyDog]

This was NotSo's answer, and it was before both patches. But I don't believe they've solved it yet.

Anyway, he offered a workaround with the TGP re-designation.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by SloppyDog

[davidp57]

Thanks for the info.

However, this means that one has to designate with the TPOD, whereas in some missions we only bomb on coordinates (that was the case in my original post, loft bombing of a known SA6 site).

Anyway, this will do until they correct the bug.

Again, thanks!

[Musis]

HHI, I had have the same problem, do you switch in A/A mode (Gun or MRM) mode using the Weapon Switch mode just before the pb appends ?

 

Thanks.

[davidp57]

1 hour ago, Musis said:

HHI, I had have the same problem, do you switch in A/A mode (Gun or MRM) mode using the Weapon Switch mode just before the pb appends ?

 

Thanks.

Nope, never.

[Holbeach]

6 hours ago, davidp57 said:

Nope, never.

Here's the scenario.

China has total economic influence over Saipan/Tinian and builds a military airbase.

China attacks Taiwan and forces an attack on Rota and establishes a Radar station and SA 11, SA 10 and SA 3 SAM sites, threataning GUAM.

Anderson is destroyed by DF 26 missile attack from China. All that is left are a few Harriers and FE-15 aircraft.

SAM's must be destroyed before full control of Rota is completed, using Toss Bombing of slicks and Rockeyes.

I've been running this scene since the F15 came out and apart from the problem detailed earlier in your thread, which also affects the Harrier, the ASL has always stuck solid to the target diamond, wind or no wind. 

Not much help, but maybe it's an O/L thing.

..

[davidp57]

"maybe it's an O/L thing"

What does that mean? (i'm french)

[Holbeach]

On 7/30/2023 at 4:16 PM, davidp57 said:

"maybe it's an O/L thing"

What does that mean? (i'm french)

On Line. (Multiplayer).

..

Edited August 3, 2023 by Holbeach
Added clarity.

[durka-durka]

My group (JTF-111) is running into this problem as well, which significantly affected our latest mission.  Our thoughts are that it's one (or all) of these three things:

1. Some bug with a human in the back seat. We can fly a bombing run just fine without issue when only one person is in the plane.
2. Something to do with multiplayer environment. Doubtful, it works just fine in MP servers when only one player is in the aircraft
3. Something to do with wind settings.  Again, it works just fine in a MP server with wind, when there's only one person in the cockpit.

[HoneyFox]

Now I would rather rely on the azimuth cue of TGP. By placing it at 12 o'clock it would ensure that I'm pointing towards the target. Wind correction is often not needed because LGB does have enough sensor FOV to pick the laser spot even if it has some wind drift.

[SmirkingGerbil]

Currently running a basic mission on the Sinai Map. Air start, MK82's, no wind.

Bombing from various altitudes, different speeds/directions, ASL is dead on, and bomb drops are accurate.

However, if I load up an older miz, that has a lot of scripting on the Syria map, it is off center every time. I have disabled wind on this miz, and it is still off.

Has anyone tried using different simple air start bombing missions, from scratch, new miz on different maps? For now on the Sinai map, my miz and ASL are working fine.

[Talvid]

I had a real headache today while trying to line up the bomb fall line on a Tunguska.  I tried to compensate by heading directly at the target even thouh the ASL line was far off to the left.  The game glitched and sent the bomb towards the ASL line instead of in the same direction as the flight path of the aircraft.  Having the weapons systems fail half the time is one of the most frustrating things about this.  It's been a while since I was able to go up and do a whole sortie without a hitch.