Best "trainer" jet in DCS

[Mars Exulte]

T-45 Goshawk, no question. It has no weapons, but best for overall learning.

[lmp]

F-15C or A-10A perhaps? No FBW but at the same time no real quirks in the FM. All the modern aids are there (HUD and flight path marker mainly), but at the same time the simple avionics won't distract from the flying. The Viper can be tricky during takeoffs and landings. The Hornet is easier if you insist on a full fidelity module, but the trimming logic doesn't carry over to other planes.

[Dragon1-1]

F-15C is an FC3 module, and therefore a bad introduction to DCS. Plus, it has a big disadvantage of being keyboard-operated, which means remembering a lot of keystrokes unless you have a HOTAS that can take them all. Most of those functions are on clickable switches in FF modules, which means they're often easier to learn. 

[draconus]

On 7/27/2023 at 7:09 PM, razorseal said:

Just realized MB339 is less than a year old lol. I thought it was a pretty old DCS jet

Because it was a good mod for a long time before going official.

My answer - other: Su-25T but really no trainer is needed in simulation world.

[Dragon1-1]

Su-25T is terrible. Flies like a pig, FC3, and looks really dated on top of that. If it wasn't free, nobody would've bought it. It's a good enough combat jet, but a poor introduction to DCS, mostly on account of not being all that fun to fly.

[Schlingel mit Kringel]

On 9/4/2023 at 2:00 PM, Dragon1-1 said:

Su-25T is terrible. Flies like a pig, FC3, and looks really dated on top of that. If it wasn't free, nobody would've bought it. It's a good enough combat jet, but a poor introduction to DCS, mostly on account of not being all that fun to fly.

Absolutely agree. Even with clean wings, that thing is a brick and terrible to fly. For new people, this plane imho makes it way harder to get into flying than necessary (and i think any FC3 aircraft btw. does, since "(over)simplified" does not necessarily mean "easier"). And i think also not easier getting into DCS in general as well.

For "best trainers", i think there really is no such. Currently we got two western trainers: the C-101 and MB-339. And one eastern one: the L-39.
Concepts, procedures and instruments of either side are somewhat-to-quite different. So if one plans to get a trainer, i'd put the choice of module on what aircraft he later plans to fly:

- If you plan to later fly a western jet: get the C-101 or MB-339. Western aircraft use the imperial system. Navigation is done via TACAN mostly and ILS for (instrument) landings.
- If you plan to later fly an eastern jet: get the L-39. Like all eastern (read: Soviet) aircraft, it uses the metric system. Navigation is done by ADF/VOR and PRMG for (instrument) landings.
- For western helicopters, one should really pick either the Gazelle or Huey for a starter as the Apache is way too complex in both systems and handling to learn the ropes.
- For eastern helicopters, the Mi-8 is really great imho. The big open cockpit gives great visibility, which makes flying, navigating and especially landing way easier. It got all the instruments and equipment you will find in the other soviet helicopters (and also in airplanes as soviets re-used things where they could). It also got multicrew now so you can have a teacher flying in the same aircraft with you. The Ka-50 with its coaxial rotors is not really suited for learning helicopters imho, as it handles quite different to the usual helicopter. It also is not multicrew.

I do not consider either the F-5 or A-4 a trainer as they have none of the features needed to qualify as a trainer (cockpit layout, two-seater, special equipment like an IFR hood...). They are both full blown single-seater combat aircraft.

[Hiob]

C-101 is a good choice, for its exceptional simulation of systems (and system failures).

[MAXsenna]

C-101 is a good choice, for its exceptional simulation of systems (and system failures).

And superb training missions. The instructor really hates me.
The Su-25T is a great module IMHO, especially with FFB, but it lacks quite a few features, like dual wheelbrake axis etc. And I agree, it's not a great trainer, but it was kinda fun as my introduction to DCS, though one needs a HOTAS which I kind of didn't have at the time. Only my old TM game port one.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Slippa]

I discovered the T-45 Goshawk not long ago and tried it out.

It’s a jet trainer, carrier capable and simple to fly. Really well done little mod I reckon. Multiplayer as well I think?

[Schlingel mit Kringel]

19 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

And superb training missions. The instructor really hates me.
The Su-25T is a great module IMHO, especially with FFB, but it lacks quite a few features, like dual wheelbrake axis etc. And I agree, it's not a great trainer, but it was kinda fun as my introduction to DCS, though one needs a HOTAS which I kind of didn't have at the time. Only my old TM game port one.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

yes. That training missions is another pro for the C-101 and i think such should come with all at least the trainers. You are asked to fly precisely: speed, altitude, bank, heading. With little margin. And you are called out for not doing so. Other modules' and their training missions pretty much invite you to jink how you feel and by that, train bad muscle memory. You'll hate that later in your journey.

For the wheel brakes in the Su-25: that is a soviet thing, i do not think any russian plane got rudder pedal (left/right) brakes. All a single handle on the flight stick. But i think FC3 does not even have that single wheelbrake axis? Would definitely be helpful.
That HOTAS remark is why i wrote FC3 level imho isn't a good starter thing in general: you can not click anything. You either already have a HOTAS with many buttons - i started with that TM T.flight and had like 6 modifier buttons set up and remember these. Or you remember three dozen weird keybinds that keep your fingers flexible. From that point it is really easier to start with a FF module as you can just click things and a simple joystick or even gamepad does for the beginning.

42 minutes ago, Slippa said:

I discovered the T-45 Goshawk not long ago and tried it out.

It’s a jet trainer, carrier capable and simple to fly. Really well done little mod I reckon. Multiplayer as well I think?

Oh look Was not aware of the T-45. Probably great for starters if you want a trainer but not invest money in a module yet. I'll link that below in case folks are interested

 

Edited February 11 by Schlingel mit Kringel
Was wrong about those soviet brakes :P

[DD_Friar]

As somebody posted, in DCS if you crash, you hit re-fly, you do not die.

Rather than buying a module to learn in, I support the above post suggesting the T-45, plus its free.

It can be used in Multiplayer providing the server has it as well.

Over at the Dangerdogz we have it as part of our "must have" mods to get onto our server.

If you are a new pilot and looking for a DCS squad that has UK and North American elements, drop by and say hello

www.dangerdogz.com

[MAXsenna]

@Schlingel mit Kringel
Actually, the MiGs have the brake lever on the stick. The Sus have ordinary brake pedals. For some reason ED left them out for the 25s, while the 27 and 33 have them.
Cheers!

EDIT: And the T-45 is an excellent choice. 

 

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Edited February 11 by MAXsenna
Added text and corrected grammar.

[Dragon1-1]

6 hours ago, Schlingel mit Kringel said:

For the wheel brakes in the Su-25: that is a soviet thing, i do not think any russian plane got rudder pedal (left/right) brakes. All a single handle on the flight stick.

That is true for many Russian fighters, but ironically not for Su-25, which has Western-style toe brakes. The Soviets tested the F-5 they got from Vietnam around the time it was developed and the brakes was one thing they really liked. The real Su-25T retained the system, though ours does not have separate toe brakes. The paid Su-25 does.

Amusingly, the previous Russian aircraft to feature toe brakes was the I-16, where they were not hydraulic but purely mechanical, like a bicycle brake (the thing was notorious for having weak brakes, not that this was a bad thing in a taildragger). They switched to pneumatic brakes around WWII and have kept them for a long time, with Sukhoi and Tupolev eventually going back to toe brakes with hydraulics. MiGs use pneumatics with a shared lever to this day.

Edited February 11 by Dragon1-1

[MAXsenna]

@Dragon1-1 Oh, I thought both the 25s didn't have them. Kewl!

[Schlingel mit Kringel]

1 minute ago, MAXsenna said:

@Schlingel mit Kringel
Actually, the MiGs have the brake lever on the stick. The Sus have ordinary brake pedals. For some reason ED left it out for the 25s, while the 27 and 33 have them.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

and @Dragon1-1

Oh weeh, shame on me! You are right To my defense: i usually fly the Su-25a only and stick to the MiG-29 otherwise, guess that missing 25 axis tricked me. Rarely sit in the 27 or 33. Is there a bug report for that missing axis on the 25? Got to bump or create!

[MAXsenna]

and @Dragon1-1
Oh weeh, shame on me! You are right To my defense: i usually fly the Su-25a only and stick to the MiG-29 otherwise, guess that missing 25 axis tricked me. Rarely sit in the 27 or 33. Is there a bug report for that missing axis on the 25? Got to bump or create!

Yeah, brake axis have been requested in wishlists.

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[HiJack]

T-45 is a great free addition. No payed content needed so great for new players.