noted Mav boresighting is very annoying for me, any workaround to get rid of it? (I guess no)

[Guest]

No, this is no post about how boresighting works nor do I have any problems understanding the procedure and the physical background (parallax effect...). I also know that it is the nature of this procedure that it is not always 100% accurate and that boresighting may still result in slight disalignments even if you've done your best to get it perfect. I know why this has to be done in real life and I am fully aware that this "feature" adds to the realism of the Viper for those who like ist as real as it gets.

Sadly not for me. I have to say that this feature of the Viper annoys me so much that I do not use the module anymore. Currently I've completely uninstalled the Viper only because I really hate this boresighting thing. May sound as a radical step to most of you, but for me it is the best solution to currently not have this module on my hard drive, even although the module is way more than AGM-65 under a F-16s wing. But it is my decision, simple as that.

I know that real pilots have to do it every time they load these AGM-65(D/G/H/K) under their wings. The point is, realism is ok, but the pilots who fly the Viper IRL do this as their main job and get paid for this. And I'm fully aware that in every job there are tasks that are fun and that there are also tasks that annoy. This is the nature of having a job you get paid for and if you're getting paid, you'll have to accept this. So far so good.

But there is a difference between a real world Viper pilot and me. I am no Viper pilot. I do net get paid for flying the Viper in DCS. I want to do this in my spare time and it should be fun and help me to get a few moments where I can get my mind off of all the problems life brings up (job, family, children, the defunct washing machine and so on). In its current state the Viper does not deliver this fun and recreation for me, simply because of this annoying boresighting feature. Ok, my fault for having bought the Viper, so everything is fine, I can live with that. It is totally ok for me to give up the Viper and journey on to another module that matches my requirements better (and draw the appropriate conclusions for me to inform myself better the next time before buying a module).

But before giving up the Viper completely, I'll try one last thing, one last chance. Perhaps I have overseen something, some secret feature that avoids having to boresight the mavs and lets me use them with the tgp like in every other module. I know that it has been asked several times that there should be an official option to deactivate the boresighting and that this has been accepted but given very low priority by ED. But maybe there is some other sort of workaround to avoid the boresighting and still be able to use the mavs with the tgp? I think I already no the answer (it is "no"), but perhaps fortune proves me false. And no, no one needs to tell me that I have to boresight these missiles in the air with a target at least 5nm away, better 8nm and so on. I already know all this. I know how to get the best results out of the boresighting, but I don't want to have it anyway. It is the procedure itself that annoys me, not the fact that the alignment is not always perfect.

[Esac_mirmidon]

You have plenty of choices not realism based around the game universe.

If this kind of things annoys you some much i suggest just move to something not so " hardcore " and enjoy your spare time on that because almost any "study level" module in DCS has this kind of feautures like:

Wait 90 seconds in the Harrier for the Mavs to be ready to use, everytime.

Wait several minutes to align any DCS module with a real INS modelled from a cold start.

Wait for GBU´s selected to align before they can be used on the Hornet or so.

Warm up the right way engines on the warbirds if you dont want to kill them soon.

There are so many examples of things, procedures, steps, you must do in order to flight properly a combat aircraft that if boresighting is to much for you to the point to uninstaling the Viper, then maybe is time just to rethink about your preferences and just move to something more fun for you from your point of view.

But dont take my advice to seriously, i´m enjoying with my squad team mates simulating a LOLA zone in the Airbase with some triggers and sound files just to simulate we are arming the weapons before take off, and the same when we arrive with some ordinance hanging. Crazy. Isn it?

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Esac_mirmidon

[N0L3R]

Hello Cosmo, I know what you're saying. I've also gone through your frustration but now that I've been through it, I tackle it this way and work almost every time.

1) Switch on TGP and Mavs (I usually start with the Viper on the runway so I'm ready to go)

2) Fly out at least about 10 Nm runway heading, take your time. Make sure TGP and Mavs are up and running.

3) Make a 180 degree turn and fly back to the field. I usually keep my speed around 300 KCAS and around 6000 feet or so

4) Switch on Autopilot to Maintain Alt and heading.

5) Pick a decent target (Like a PAR or something that is close to the runway and easily visible) with the TGP as SOI

6) Make Mavs SOI, slew to target, TMS UP to lock target (make sure crosshair is closed). Try 7Nm or less, BSGT - Mav is now boresighted. TMS Down.

7) Cycle to Next Station and repeat step 6.

 

I suggest to try and boresight the mavs when distance is between 3 and 7 Nm to ensure proper boresightedness. I also usually move the TGP crosshair and compare with what the Mavs are seeing to ensure they're looking at the same target.

 

Keep practicing, it's worth it.

[MAXsenna]

@N0L3R
Did you read his post at all?
He knows the procedure, he just wants to skip it all together.

Quote: "Perhaps I have overseen something, some secret feature that avoids having to boresight the mavs and lets me use them with the tgp like in every other module".

Do you know how? I don't.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Esac_mirmidon]

Maybe just ask devs for a special option on the Viper to have Mavs already boresighted could do the trick,

I dont know how receptive ED could be with such thing

[N0L3R]

18 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

@N0L3R
Did you read his post at all?
He knows the procedure, he just wants to skip it all together.

Quote: "Perhaps I have overseen something, some secret feature that avoids having to boresight the mavs and lets me use them with the tgp like in every other module".

Do you know how? I don't.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

 

Okay sorry for that, I thought that although he knew the procedure, what annoyed him was that there was a some uncertainty in it.

Well, as far as I know, if you start in the air the tgp and mavs are boresighted. That's as far as I know and I don't play online

[Guest]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb Esac_mirmidon:

You have plenty of choices not realism based around the game universe.

If this kind of things annoys you some much i suggest just move to something not so " hardcore " and enjoy your spare time on that because almost any "study level" module in DCS has this kind of feautures like:

Wait 90 seconds in the Harrier for the Mavs to be ready to use, everytime.

Wait several minutes to align any DCS module with a real INS modelled from a cold start.

Wait for GBU´s selected to align before they can be used on the Hornet or so.

Warm up the right way engines on the warbirds if you dont want to kill them soon.

There are so many examples of things, procedures, steps, you must do in order to flight properly a combat aircraft that if boresighting is to much for you to the point to uninstaling the Viper, then maybe is time just to rethink about your preferences and just move to something more fun for you from your point of view.

But dont take my advice to seriously, i´m enjoying with my squad team mates simulating a LOLA zone in the Airbase with some triggers and sound files just to simulate we are arming the weapons before take off, and the same when we arrive with some ordinance hanging. Crazy. Isn it?

 

 

 

 

You nailed it and then again you didn't. My problem is, I really enjoy the deep hardcore realism. I love getting into the depths of a module, learn the avionics, the systems and so on. And with most procedures I really have no problem at all. Some are great, some annoy a little bit but thats ok. But then there comes this one procedure that ruins a module completely for me. I know, sounds crazy and yes, I know I'm doing some kind of crazy cherry picking with this attitude. I want realism, but I want to chose what realism is ok for me. Cherry picking at its best, I know. But as it is my (rare) spare time, I'm fine with this attitude and I also have no problem with taking the consequences that come with this, like abandoning a module I've paid for.

So long story short, as there seems to be no workaround to get rid of the boresighting, I guess I'll have to accept it as it is, take the Viper with this feature or leave it uninstalled until some day ED may make this procedure optional.

Edited August 26, 2023 by c0sm0cat

[Guest]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb N0L3R:

Okay sorry for that, I thought that although he knew the procedure, what annoyed him was that there was a some uncertainty in it.

Well, as far as I know, if you start in the air the tgp and mavs are boresighted. That's as far as I know and I don't play online

Nothing new for me, as said before, I know how to boresight mavs. I just don't want to do it. And it is not the uncertainty that comes with this procedure. In the opposite, it would be totally ok for me if an option to deactivate the boresighting would instead bring some kind of rng inaccurracy to the alignment between the mavs and the tgp.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Well sometimes i can get annoyed with the BS3 real INS, align procedure, 12 minutes, when you get shot down. 

But there are  INS readyness spawn options that can shorten It so , as i've said, ask kindly for a "Mavs already Boresighted" special option.

Maybe ED Will add It.

[MAXsenna]

Okay sorry for that, I thought that although he knew the procedure, what annoyed him was that there was a some uncertainty in it.
Well, as far as I know, if you start in the air the tgp and mavs are boresighted. That's as far as I know and I don't play online

Apologies! I may have sounded a little harsh. I will personally keep your procedure in mind, so thanks!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Guest]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Esac_mirmidon:

Well sometimes i can get annoyed with the BS3 real INS, align procedure, 12 minutes, when you get shot down. 

But there are  INS readyness spawn options that can shorten It so , as i've said, ask kindly for a "Mavs already Boresighted" special option.

Maybe ED Will add It.

Has been asked before by others and ED already has said that they'll look into it, but with very low prio. Thats why I've started this post, in the hope that there may be some sort of workaround, even if the chance for it was very low.

Edited August 26, 2023 by c0sm0cat

[Gronank]

If you create your own scenarios, you can put down a steerpoint on something lockable along the way and you can get the boresighting done in less than 30 seconds with minimum hassle.

You still have to do it, of course, but it isn't a massive pain (compared to trying to get it done on the ground, for example)

[Floydrix]

Totally agree, it's just needless busy-work.  

Either that or force the other planes that use Mavs to boresight as well so everybody has to suffer it.

[ACME_WIdgets]

I still cannot get SP to work correctly to boresight the F16 Mavericks. Regardless of what I do (TMS down, up, etc), when
i hit SP, the TPOD moves to 130 degrees magnetic (able to see square with HMCS)- regardless of aircraft pointed heading, on tarmac.
This is in SP or MP, waypoints (not in 130 degrees direction) or no waypoint. 
I have also noticed that TMS down/twice does not CZ under some circumstances.

Edited August 27, 2023 by ACME_WIdgets
typo

[hawk4me]

The tgp is screwed up in the viper right now. Has been for awhile. I have seen nothing from ED on a temporary fix till they get the tgp finished. You cannot SP the tgp and yes TMS down twice sometimes works and sometimes goes to some random location. I have tried recently putting stpt 1 onto a tank or truck on the ramp so I can use it to boresight. It doesn't work either. Putting the mav in PRE mode makes it point behind you for some reason. Only work around right now is to start in the air.

[OldFlyer]

10 hours ago, hawk4me said:

The tgp is screwed up in the viper right now. Has been for awhile. I have seen nothing from ED on a temporary fix till they get the tgp finished. You cannot SP the tgp and yes TMS down twice sometimes works and sometimes goes to some random location. I have tried recently putting stpt 1 onto a tank or truck on the ramp so I can use it to boresight. It doesn't work either. Putting the mav in PRE mode makes it point behind you for some reason. Only work around right now is to start in the air.

Have encountered this very same issue. I posted something similar in the bugs forum a while back and @Lord Vader said they were working on some TGP updates 

[_SteelFalcon_]

10 hours ago, hawk4me said:

The tgp is screwed up in the viper right now. Has been for awhile. I have seen nothing from ED on a temporary fix till they get the tgp finished. You cannot SP the tgp and yes TMS down twice sometimes works and sometimes goes to some random location. I have tried recently putting stpt 1 onto a tank or truck on the ramp so I can use it to boresight. It doesn't work either. Putting the mav in PRE mode makes it point behind you for some reason. Only work around right now is to start in the air.

Almost. I use the AG radar as a workaround. SP on the AG radar, designate the nearest town you deem convenient, switch to tpod, refine, boresight, profit.

or set hud markpoint, make active stp, cz pod, bsgt. There is ways to get around the SP bug on the pod. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by _SteelFalcon_

[skywalker22]

On 8/26/2023 at 3:30 PM, c0sm0cat said:

I have to say that this feature of the Viper annoys me so much that I do not use the module anymore.

There are other weapons on the Viper that can do the same work as the Mavs, but in a bit different way. Personally I maybe take them with me every 10th time or less, and its quite interesting to do the boresighting in the air ones in a while. Really don't get your complaining.

Anyway, you can still boresight the Mavs on the ground, it works perfectly fine, I tried it 3 weeks ago.

[void68]

The only workaround I remember is not starting cold&dark and the Mavericks are boresighted already but I think you already know about that. Despite the F-16 being an 80$ Early Access bird for years (which changed my attitude toward Early Access support completely, and I thought I would have learned my lesson already by being a StarCitizen since 2015 ) I still love flying it and would want you to reconsider your decision .

That's all if can add to the topic. Everything below is not totally on topic.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The SP is broken for months and DCS just rejects to re-fix the once working SP on the TGP. For me, the boresighting process would be ok - if it wasn't broken!

vor 15 Stunden schrieb skywalker22:

There are other weapons on the Viper that can do the same work as the Mavs, but in a bit different way. Personally I maybe take them with me every 10th time or less, and its quite interesting to do the boresighting in the air ones in a while. Really don't get your complaining.

Anyway, you can still boresight the Mavs on the ground, it works perfectly fine, I tried it 3 weeks ago.

Yes, but these mentioned weapons were broken, too, just thinking about the CBU-105 drift / accuracy error, some GBU error and wasn't even the JSOW broken gives me the creeps! Endless hour of testing the CBU105 and DCS always asking for a track? Why didn't they just jump into the cockpit and fly a single CBU105 drop theirselves and... see? They fix one and break the other.

Boresighting in the air is IMHO the only way to do it right but do this while flying as a wingman and in bad weather / bad sight conditions and it's something not only the noob would complain about. And then DCS gives us the broken Snowplow on top of it. Ok, as you are already flying towards your steerpoint and the TGP is looking dead ahead at least you don't need the SP anymore and don't have to slew the sensor head like 10 seconds or so. And to add just a bit of complicating things let's hope the mission creator had put some easy to spot ground units (and active i.e. "hot" on your IR) enroute... a simple structure does not work most of the time if the contrast is too low.

What I don't understand: Why no hotfix for such a simple problem? If Press Button 5 then Sensorhead to X,Y,Z to simplify it. What works with the FCR does not for the TGP?

Skywalker22's in-flight boresighting workarounds are helpful, I think.

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by void68
thanks to Skywalker22 added

[Shimmergloom667]

On 8/26/2023 at 5:26 PM, Floydrix said:

Totally agree, it's just needless busy-work.  

Either that or force the other planes that use Mavs to boresight as well so everybody has to suffer it.

I would hope so! There must be some sort of boresighting mechanism in the other planes as well, and I would welcome that. Feels wrong to just sling them in the Hornet, I want the full monty and have to boresight as well.

[Guest]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb skywalker22:

 Really don't get your complaining.

 

I don't expect anyone to be the same opinion as I am, but I expect everyone to accept that I have a personal opinion even if it differs from the opinion of others, ok?

[skywalker22]

2 hours ago, c0sm0cat said:

I don't expect anyone to be the same opinion as I am, but I expect everyone to accept that I have a personal opinion even if it differs from the opinion of others, ok?

O'right, no problem with me 

[Guest]

Am 28.8.2023 um 20:33 schrieb skywalker22:

Anyway, you can still boresight the Mavs on the ground, it works perfectly fine, I tried it 3 weeks ago.

Technically it works, no problem. The avionic lets you do this of course. But the alignment between the mavs seaker head and the tgp camera won't be accurate enough. This is a physical problem (parallax effect) that I guess is simulated correctly since the last update of the boresighting mechanism. On the ground you can hardly spot a target that is far away enough to get the boresighting for distances between 6nm and 8nm. So boresighting on the ground works but won't give you the accurate results you want for the standoff distance of the maverick. At least in my tests this was always the case.

[skywalker22]

4 minutes ago, c0sm0cat said:

Technically it works, no problem. The avionic lets you do this of course. But the alignment between the mavs seaker head and the tgp camera won't be accurate enough. This is a physical problem (parallax effect) that I guess is simulated correctly since the last update of the boresighting mechanism. On the ground you can hardly spot a target that is far away enough to get the boresighting for distances between 6nm and 8nm. So boresighting on the ground works but won't give you the accurate results you want for the standoff distance of the maverick. At least in my tests this was always the case.

I am aware and I know all that, but the point being, the Mav can still hit the target perfectly well. So go figure if it really is simulated correctly.

[Guest]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb skywalker22:

I am aware and I know all that, but the point being, the Mav can still hit the target perfectly well. So go figure if it really is simulated correctly.

I'd say yes and no, it depends on the situation. At least thats what my experiences were so far. If you have a single target with high contrast the mavs seeker will lock the target even if it is not boresightet correctly. But if you have a group of targets tight together like a group of tanks or so, then you set the SPI on a specific target with the TGP, the mav gets a lock, rifle, but it hits not the target you locked with the TGP but one target besides the one you locked instead. The problem is, at a range of 6-8nm it is very hard to distinguish a specific target in a group of several targets with the mavs seeker even in narrow FOV mode. With the TGP no problem at that distance. The mavs seeker image is just too... bad? for this distance in that specific use case.