Use what device and hand to click cockpits?

[Keith Briscoe]

I'm very new here and to DCS, and sorry if this has been raised many times.  I search G and YT but haven't found clear answers.  I'm currently getting my feet wet with F15c /FC3.  But, already looking ahead to other full fidelity modules.

I cannot get my head wrapped around the challenge of having both my hands on HOTAS, but also using mouse (?) to click items in cockpit - e.g., selecting pages/options on MFDs.

How do you all do this?  You can't possibly use your right hand, can you?  Or, is there really not that much to touch unless you're primarily in level flight? Would really be interested in the specifics of how most do this.  Thank you!!

[unlikely_spider]

Yes, use your right hand. If it's something that requires a lot of heads down time, set altitude hold or whatever the specific plane has.

[Slippa]

I”m spending a lot of time training myself.

I do an hours exercise every day remembering to always warm up and cool down properly. I haven’t found one yet but there may be moulded mice or suchlike that could be better than what I’m doing but what I do suits me fine. Maybe others do the same, I don’t know but I’m betting a lot do, they just don’t mention it much.

I made ten small baskets with pea sized weights. I’ll move up to marble sized when I’m a bit stronger but for now I’m still working on the smaller weights. I just remove my socks, attach each weighted basket to each individual toe on both feet. It’s then a simple case of exercising the muscles and improving dexterity. I’m pretty amazed with the results so far, my toes are almost twice the size they were when I started around two years ago and I swear I could play piano with them (though I’ve yet to try). The movement in them is incredible, I can almost do drumrolls with just my left foot and my missus has taken to calling me ‘twinkle toes’. I think she’s pretty impressed.

Once I built up my strength I found I could place a second keyboard and mouse on a mat and use my feet quite well. Obviously, I can’t ‘toe-type’ while using the rudder pedals but after a while I got used to doing lots of things simultaneously. I’m often typing in a chat box under the desk while happily flying along. Perseverance is the key.

In case you don’t think this would suit you, there are alternative ways and means. Not everything needs doing at once and you’ll probably work out what’s manageable and when. Some people use different devices, from joypads, keyboards and mice to VR headsets and a trained octopus. There are things like trackIR and the like that will handle most of your views. Almost all the time you’ll need something holding the stick but you’ll work out ways to do what you need to and when. Once you’re trimmed out nicely you’ll have more time for checking other things.

Good luck and enjoy. If you do feel the toe exercises are for you, make sure your diet allows for the extra energy you’ll be using and be prepared for bigger shoes.

 

[Furiz]

Hey @Keith Briscoe

My answer to your question is when I fly I try to be prepared as much as possible for the situation ahead. When I fly Viper or Hornet for example I set up my screens, countermeasures, ECM, bombs codes etc ahead of time, on the ramp or while flying to target destination so when I get there I am ready for whatever situation occurs with just one button click. And if I need to mouse click something it is usually one click and my hands are back on the stick.

After all that's how they do it in real life, they have preparation before they even get into cockpit with briefings etc, then they set everything up while waiting to take off. That is how we should do it too, prepare for the mission then go do the mission ready.

That way most of the time you won't even need to mouse click anything.

Hope this helps.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Furiz

[Lace]

I fly VR so the cursor is in the centre of my vision, which combined with a LMB/RMB/Scroll HOTAS bind means just a look and click - no mouse required. 

However, I still spend a lot of time setting up the aircraft on the ground, countermeasures, MFD master mode config, TGP setup, RADAR modes, etc. (you  have 8 minutes of INS alignment - might as well put them to good use), and then FENCE etc during the ingress legs.  Make use of the ALT HOLD/STRG SEL autopilot modes if needed.  You'll find with the Viper that once set up there are very few non-HOTAS controls you will need to manipulate, and the majority are on the left AUX or gear panel. 

It is possible using modifiers to multiply the number of HOTAS inputs you have, so in theory you could have all these additional controls mapped too and not need the mouse at all - the difficulty here now becomes remembering what is mapped where.

[MAXsenna]

Great advice all around.
The Viper is FBW and don't really need much hand holding, so for it I use a side stick, and for the rest central mounted. You'll see that it becomes easier to use both hands to fly or manipulate keyboard/switches and whatever you have available after a while. I use a couple of macro keyboards with individual key lighting as super cheap button boxes. I also use VoiceAttack with the free VAICOM plugin to handle comms/radio, so I don't need to use mouse/keyboard to "struggle" with the radio menu. Head tracking is also must I'd say.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[scoobie]

3 things come to my mind, but I'm using TrackIR, VR people need different solutions.

1. Hand tracking devices. I've never used any, but maybe people with experience will chime in - are these devices more of a blessing than pain? I have no idea.

2. If you have some space to use the mouse with your left hand, you might try and teach it to drive the mouse. I've tried it, used a separate Bluetooth mouse, but didn't really like it. Whenever I wasn't thinking about it, I always found that it was my right hand on the mouse, not the left one. Instincts. And the left hand was rather clumsy with the mouse. Yep, practice makes perfect, I know, but I just didn't like it and gave up.

3. This is a very good solution, but doesn't solve the problem 100% - hardware button boxes and/or other similar devices. However, for MFCSs/MPDs/DDIs specifically you'd need specialized hardware, it exists, but I don't have it.
I've got an own-built button box, very crude, built over a weekend, but it works. It sits directly to the left of my throttle, same size as TM Warthog throttle base. It's got toggle switches, a few buttons, and 7 potentiometers (with 1/2" knobs). Next, I've got 1 Stream Deck XL and 2 Stream Decks "+" (with awesome ctytler's SD plugin for DCS). SD XL is in front of me, on modern aircraft I use it primarily for UFC. Those two SD+ sit behind the throttle and to the left. Again, the aim is to operate all these with the left hand, so the right one can grab the stick at all times. Oh, I'm using tabletop HOTAS configuration, which is a not recommended setup, but that's what I've got now. If you had the stick in between the legs, I'm sure you could arrange such additional devices more equally - left and right, because you can easily switch hands and hold the stick with the left one for a few moments.
All such devices let you quickly/easily use controls you need most when flying. I mean HOTAS is always the first choice, most important bindings, button boxes etc. are the second choice, only then come the mouse and/or keyboard keys. If you have a few such devices, the need for grabbing the mouse just decreases significantly. In fact, in simple aircraft (most warbirds), I don't need mouse/keyboard at all. I know some people are using smartphones, maybe also tablets with appropriate software to do the same thing. The choice is relatively broad, though obviously you need to spend money on such hardware.

Lastly, modern aircraft will offer an autopilot, so if you need a longer session of heads down, you can set an orbit and flick/press/turn whatever you need with the mouse.
And, lastly-lastly, that's why I'm loving A-10C II so much (even though she's otherwise boring to fly) - she's got awesome HOTAS system and lets you fly and fight "HOTAS mode only" out of the box, most of the time.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by scoobie

[Sacarino111]

4 hours ago, Keith Briscoe said:

I'm very new here and to DCS, and sorry if this has been raised many times.  I search G and YT but haven't found clear answers.  I'm currently getting my feet wet with F15c /FC3.  But, already looking ahead to other full fidelity modules.

I cannot get my head wrapped around the challenge of having both my hands on HOTAS, but also using mouse (?) to click items in cockpit - e.g., selecting pages/options on MFDs.

How do you all do this?  You can't possibly use your right hand, can you?  Or, is there really not that much to touch unless you're primarily in level flight? Would really be interested in the specifics of how most do this.  Thank you!!

HI.

Get a set (minumum) of Thrustmasters MFD s. Life is great with with those things... Use two as your actual MFD and if you have more than two, well, set them up as you see fit.

Use a second set of (cheap) hotas, but don't use them to fly; use them (bind the buttons) for the more important buttons on the cockpit. Even console controllers are a great addition.

If you are more into building things, get an Arduino Mega and be creative (https://forum.dcs.world/topic/97434-an-arduino-usb-hid-controller-composite-usb-controller). The best option, in my opinion.

Saludos

Saca111

 

[Keith Briscoe]

Just want to say thanks everyone - great perspectives and advice.  I'm sure a lot of this is going to play out as I gain experience and comfortability with the knobs and buttons and beeping and lights, Oh My!!  It's so much fun and I love this learning phase. 

Thanks again.

[Stonkernz]

I use a Kensington cordless trackball mouse with scroll wheel on my left thigh. Sewed velcro onto a thigh strap with hook glued to bottom of mouse but have seen people do the same with an actual knee board as well. Fly mainly in VR but use the same for flat screen 

[Keith Briscoe]

Had a feeling there's some creative solutions like this.