w.i.p Apache (George Pilot) ability to steady hover is very poor

[mdee]

Hi,

I have quite severe issues with George AI when hovering, the hover is unstable and makes operating from the front seat very difficult, sometimes impossible. The heli oscilates from left to right, 10-20 degrees each side. I have tried all George modes, doesn't make any difference. I have tried with an empty heli.

I am using latest beta, I have triple checked my controls, no trim, no wind. I can hold a stable hover from pilot seat.

Any ideas?

Edited October 24, 2023 by mdee

[andyfoot]

Having same issues. Also had George taking off and hovering at 10 feet if I jump into CPG whilst starting up. That has happened with Throttles at both Fly and Idle,This happened when I started up on HMS Invincible

 

 

[mdee]

Can someone who is using stable branch check this please?

Edited October 24, 2023 by mdee

[mdee]

BTW I checked the Hind, just out of curiosity, no issues. Not that I'd want to hover in this one, but is super stable when light.

[Floyd1212]

There are some issues since the latest patch with ATT Hold modes, and with George flying.

[lester]

7 hours ago, mdee said:

Hi,

I have quite severe issues with George AI when hovering, the hover is unstable and makes operating from the front seat very difficult, sometimes impossible. The heli oscilates from left to right, 10-20 degrees each side. I have tried all George modes, doesn't make any difference. I have tried with an empty heli.

I am using latest beta, I have triple checked my controls, no trim, no wind. I can hold a stable hover from pilot seat.

Any ideas?

 

Same here. Makes working with TADS after switching really uncomfortable.

[KeyserSoze62]

Had this problem in a mission yesterday as well. Came to a solid hover from the back seat.  Trimmed and set ALT/ATT Holds and still solid.  Switched to the CPG seat and it started oscillating left and right persistently.  Never settled down but never failed or crashed either just rocking.

I saw that issues with ATT holds have already been reported so I didn't save a track.  It was intermittent as well. Did another mission and hover was solid in both seats.

 

[Caldera]

mdee,

I have been playing today, and shooting allot from the front seat.  George AI as pilot has been as stable as a rock for me.  Version 2.9.xx has had no effect in this regard.

I simply bring it to a hover as pilot and switch to the front seat.  George bobbles for a few moments and then is really stable.  I do not use any of the hold modes prior to doing this.

Caldera

[450Devil]

When George is flying the Apache its ability to maintain a steady hover is severely degraded if there is any wind. The attached track has the wind going towards 330 at 6 knots. In the hover (200 feet ASL) George swings from side to side when the wind is at the aircraft's 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock. Surprisingly, George's hover is fairly steady when the wing is coming from 90 degrees right or left of the helicopter in the hover. Me thinks George needs some retraining.

Apache Hover Test.trk

[admiki]

I have noticed same control twiches when activating attitude hold

[lester]

I wasn't able to reproduce it in singleplayer mission: both with hot start in the air and with cold start and take off, with my usual startup routine.

But it's definitely reproducible for me in multiplayer. Unfortunately can't provide track because of that. This is how this effect looks like:

Note that I didn't touch rudder pedals after switching to CPG seat.

Edited October 26, 2023 by lester

[mdee]

1 hour ago, lester said:

I wasn't able to reproduce it in singleplayer mission: both with hot start in the air and with cold start and take off, with my usual startup routine.

But it's definitely reproducible for me in multiplayer. Unfortunately can't provide track because of that. This is how this effect looks like:

Note that I didn't touch rudder pedals after switching to CPG seat.

 

Yeah, that's exactly how it looks like.

[admiki]

There is another thread about this. It turns out George is having issues hovering into/back to wind. If there is no wind or he is hovering 90 degs to the wind, stable hover.

I confirmed this myself.

[andyfoot]

After today's hotfix, he still oscillates, but much less pronounced. It's now about 2 degrees either side

 

[skybaby68]

As the title suggests, using george to orient to a desired direction in H-B mode or asking him to align to tads in CMBT mode, once in a stationary hover, the aircraft continues to oscillate severely along the horizontal plain, with around 30° of movement, making it absolutely impossible to employ weapons etc.

 

[skybaby68]

As the title suggests, using george to orient to a desired direction in H-B mode or asking him to align to tads in CMBT mode, in any wind condition; once in a stationary hover, the aircraft continues to oscillate severely along the horizontal plain, with around 30° of movement, making it absolutely impossible to employ weapons etc.

 

Have also posted in the 2.9 AI Aircraft (Non Combined Arms) section of this forum

Edited October 26, 2023 by skybaby68

[jazzviper]

same here

[Hotdognz]

Same here 2.8 George was ok in wind, in 2.9 he has forgot his flight school training and is useless again

[450Devil]

Thought I would try and see if the latest update had improved George's ability to maintain a steady hover - unfortunately not. George still jerks from side to side when in a hover. Track attached. The track shows me as pilot taking off and moving to Gudauta's parallel taxiway and going into a 10 foot hover. I then land and swap to the CPG seat and direct George to ascend 10 feet. George gets into a 10 foot hover but still jerks from side to side. Heavy handed cyclic perhaps? Wind was from 150 degrees at 10 knots.

Apache Hover Test_2.trk

[Lord Vader]

Hi all.

George will be the subject of several improvements and refinements in the future. No, there wasn't any noticeable work between the last updates to its behaviour. 

Like we've said earlier, for now we must consider it "work in progress".

Just be careful giving him commands, always attempt to hand him a trimmed aircraft if switching to CPG and avoid some more challenging conditions like crosswinds.

[Shadey]

I had this issue the only way I resolved it was to rewrite the mission with the latest update installed.

It may be possible to just remove Apaches and replace them but my mission was pretty quick and easy to replicate from scratch. 

It even happens in the start from hot mission that comes with the Apache. Which was obviously written before the 2.9 update. 

Tested on four or more separate users PCs and two different missions. Single and multiplayer. 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Shadey

[NIGHTHAWK1]

Dido     Just yesterday same thing happened to me, but funny, because prior did not have the problem.

[Antix70]

On 10/26/2023 at 7:09 AM, lester said:

I wasn't able to reproduce it in singleplayer mission: both with hot start in the air and with cold start and take off, with my usual startup routine.

But it's definitely reproducible for me in multiplayer. Unfortunately can't provide track because of that. This is how this effect looks like:

Note that I didn't touch rudder pedals after switching to CPG seat.

 

I'm having this same effect in a friends mission. He's set the winds rather high, 15+, same as yours. I have confirmed that George does NOT do this in calm winds.

[pii]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:16 PM, Antix70 said:

I'm having this same effect in a friends mission. He's set the winds rather high, 15+, same as yours. I have confirmed that George does NOT do this in calm winds.

It looks like when the pilot is trying to get in a hover. Could it be that when we switch seats the pilot or CPG has to start the hover hold all over again?

[Antix70]

The way I've been doing it is as follows: I fly to within 20km of my target, then I switch to front seat and get everything ready, George holds the course to the waypoint perfectly, once I'm close I command George to slow to 40kts, which he does just fine, no oscillations, once I'm within firing range, I order George to 0kts, here's where loses his friggin mind, as soon as we've stopped, and have a nice hover, the oscillations begin.

I have tried to switch back the Pilot, and correct the issue, but the swapping of seats is still messy, and as soon as I move my controls, I have to begin the recovery required for just the seat swap. I don't believe there is a way to switch to front seat, put George in a hover, and switch back to pilot and keep it in a hover, or maybe there is a way and I just suck.