Reverb G2 -> ????

[Morat]

Ok, so I know we've got a few months until Windows moves up a version and WMR users become stuck on older windows versions but...

If you are a Reverb owner, where will you go after WMR becomes legacy? I can't think of a headset with a compelling cost/performance that would tempt me from the Reverb G2 right now, which is a bit of a worry as I'd rather not spend money just to stand still!

My personal feature list would include:

• At least 2160x2160 resolution per eye (can't see a good reason to go backwards from the G2)
• Integrated off-ear headphones (I love the immersion of off-ear audio)
• Wired/powered so that I don't need to charge it, or worry about WiFi setup/speeds/interference
• Inside out tracking (no base stations please)
• No light leakage
• 550g max weight

And the wishlist:

• OLED panels
• Pancake lenses
• £800 max budget

I don't care about:

• Hand Controllers
• AR
• Anything but DCS

 

Is there anything out there that fits the bill? Or anything in the pipeline? I'm sure there are plenty of us G2/WMR users in the DCS space who are wondering about this.

[speed-of-heat]

I went to Varjo Aero , if you just buy a single light house that will put you about 150 quid  over you budget

[Phantom711]

@Morat

I think the Quest 3 would suit your needs.

I went from the G2 to a Quest Pro becauseI also wanted DFR and I accepted the slightly lower resolution. 
 

EDIT: Also I wouldn‘t worry too much about WMR yet….I think it‘s not really clear at what point WMR will end up being removed or unusable.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Phantom711

[Joch1955]

I am sticking with my G2 for now. it's a bit too early to panic until we have more clarity. "Officially", MS has said WMR will be supported until end of 2026.

[MarkyMarkUK]

I'd stick with G2 for now with regards WMR but I would add that I migrated from G2 V2 to Pico4 and have been well impressed! Not having the tiny sweet spot alone and being able to read dials better in DCS and experience VR virtual pinball via VPX, in much more clarity, has been worth every penny.

[Morat]

Yep, definitely not panic time - but if I need to save up £2k for something decent then I'd like to know early!

Pico4 looks interesting, thank you. I wonder if they'll do a DP version one day....

[Eaglewings]

Yep, definitely not panic time - but if I need to save up £2k for something decent then I'd like to know early!
Pico4 looks interesting, thank you. I wonder if they'll do a DP version one day....

There are rumours of Pico 5 for next year. It seems display port will only be available in their highest model.
If the rumours are true about the specs, it is a bit of a let down to exclude the DP on the lower model.
Again, just rumours.

Microsoft plans to deprecate wmr in hard to understand. Vr is becoming very popular.

Sent from my XQ-AT52 using Tapatalk

[cordite]

Really? Latest news is Pico5 is shelved.

[Eaglewings]

Really? Latest news is Pico5 is shelved.

Now that is interesting. I must have been reading staled news on the web.

Sent from my XQ-AT52 using Tapatalk

[freehand]

Apart from the early headsets I owned I went G2 , Questpro , Pico4 gone back to a G1 love the head set until I get the Varjo Aero.

[C3PO]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:59 PM, speed-of-heat said:

I went to Varjo Aero , if you just buy a single light house that will put you about 150 quid  over you budget

Hi - so just a single lighthouse and the headset for the Aero then? I am interested too and moving from a G2. What about sound?

[winghunter]

I went from G2 to Quest 3. Because there is no truly next gen headset yet, so I wanted to have an intermediate solution. The apple vision pro is coming out soon, but I dont expect it to be usable for PC within the first 6 months.

The Q3 is a major update over the G2. Performance seems about the same with a 4090, still CPU bound.

Pros:

• It has the best consumer lenses available. If you remove the facial interface and get as close to the lenses as possible you get a stunning FOV which feels like 140° and everything is still sharp. So I bought a different facial interface from AMVR.
• Due to edge to edge clarity I noticed a lot more details in the environment, like writings on the carrier i've never noticed before. With the G2 your eyes stay mostly in the center.
• I unintentionally spent 10 minutes low level flying over water and couldnt stop. Due to the increased FOV and edge to edge clarity you get a much greater sense of speed. Also when taxiing i can now control the pedals very precise because i can feel every subtle change in acceleration.
• Case 3 procedures are much easier, I can scan all instruments with my eyes, while keeping the head level.
• The head and controller tracking is so much better, the whole experience feels much more fluid.
• The latency is much better, its easier to fly the tomcat, it feels a lot more responsive.
• The controller is small and actually useful as a mouse replacement. Can be bound in game.
• You can switch to Desktop view in VR, which is a huge plus if you need to fiddle with other apps.
• Quest3 has some fun shooting games

Cons:

• Audio is not as good but acceptable for me. I don't bother using my in ears.
• Microphone quality is worse, which makes VoiceAttack harder to use
• Its heavier and uncomfortable unless you by a replacement like the AMVR face mask and some elite strap. I duct-taped my Q2 elite strap, works fine.
• The default settings deliver a blurry image. You need to change the bitrate and resolution with other apps like OXRTK and OculusDebugTool

Edited January 6, 2024 by winghunter

[unlikely_spider]

17 minutes ago, winghunter said:

The default settings deliver a blurry image. You need to change the bitrate and resolution with other apps like OXRTK and OculusDebugTool

Could you be kind enough to elaborate on what you needed to do? I've no experience with those.

Is one able to test a Quest 3 (I have access to one) without causing conflicts with a Reverb that I'm currently using full-time?

Do you require a cable for acceptable quality on the Quest?

[Phantom711]

vor 44 Minuten schrieb unlikely_spider:

Could you be kind enough to elaborate on what you needed to do? I've no experience with those.

There is no easy answer to this. What works for him might not work for you. But if you increase the supersampling resolution, the image quality increases. As for the bitrate…I experimented with it and went back to default…

vor 44 Minuten schrieb unlikely_spider:

Is one able to test a Quest 3 (I have access to one) without causing conflicts with a Reverb that I'm currently using full-time?

There should not be any conflicts. You just have to switch to make Oculus your OpenXR runtime (and back to WMR if you want to go back to the G2). No big deal.

Problem is, that VR is usually a relatively complex matter, so there is no such thing as a „quick test“, that would lead you to an educated conclusion.

vor 44 Minuten schrieb unlikely_spider:

Do you require a cable for acceptable quality on the Quest?

Not necessarily. If you can start a dedicated WiFi almost solely for the connection of the HMD with the PC you can try the native Air Link or Virtual Desktop.

Edited January 2, 2024 by Phantom711

[winghunter]

41 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

Do you require a cable for acceptable quality on the Quest?

I use a link cable, standard USB-C for best quality and least latency.

You need to install the oculus apps etc. And set it to be the default openXR environment instead of WMR.

Other than that it should not interfere. Up resolution in OXRTK to 1.5 or so, i use 3500x3000 pixels roughly

[unlikely_spider]

@winghunter@Phantom711

Thank you both.

[speed-of-heat]

7 hours ago, C3PO said:

Hi - so just a single lighthouse and the headset for the Aero then? I am interested too and moving from a G2. What about sound?

Certainly seems to work on one OK, YMMV. I find the in box in earphones and microphone works well enough for me... Not an audio snob, so ymmv again

[Nightdare]

Even if I'd want to upgrade my headset, better VR gear would require better hardware, so I'd first have to upgrade the GPU and with that probably the PSU as well

[Tea-Pig]

My Reverb G2 has just died. I'm hoping it's just the cable, but if not then I too will be looking for something to replace it. There doesn't seem to be an obvious successor to the Reverb.

Perhaps the Pico4 is close, and so cheap (£299 on Amazon at the mo) it might be daft not to try it, although the setup for DCS looks to be not exactly straightforward (26 page thread on here).

Or maybe stepping up to the Aero? Seems like a safe, mature option. I see people saying it's only(!) £8-900 now, but the Varjo shop says that's without VAT, and it needs a lighthouse (£150?) And it's 90Hz refresh only. What eye candy compromise is going to be necessary to achieve 90FPS given that it's hard enough to get 60 for the Reverb?

Or a Crystal? 8% off at the mo. Some rave about the visuals, others rant about lack of comfort, poor build quality and traumatic software.

Or a Bigscreen Beyond? Why is it $999 in the US but £1149 in the UK? And three months delivery?

Or choose to re-join the Zuckerman data mining empire with a Quest xxx? After tasting the Meta idea of customer service when my Facebook account was hacked and stolen.... not for me.

Or maybe just get a cheap Reverb off Ebay to tide me over until the muddy VR waters become clearer.

 

[freehand]

1 hour ago, Tea-Pig said:

My Reverb G2 has just died. I'm hoping it's just the cable, but if not then I too will be looking for something to replace it. There doesn't seem to be an obvious successor to the Reverb.

Perhaps the Pico4 is close, and so cheap (£299 on Amazon at the mo) it might be daft not to try it, although the setup for DCS looks to be not exactly straightforward (26 page thread on here).

Or maybe stepping up to the Aero? Seems like a safe, mature option. I see people saying it's only(!) £8-900 now, but the Varjo shop says that's without VAT, and it needs a lighthouse (£150?) And it's 90Hz refresh only. What eye candy compromise is going to be necessary to achieve 90FPS given that it's hard enough to get 60 for the Reverb?

Or a Crystal? 8% off at the mo. Some rave about the visuals, others rant about lack of comfort, poor build quality and traumatic software.

Or a Bigscreen Beyond? Why is it $999 in the US but £1149 in the UK? And three months delivery?

Or choose to re-join the Zuckerman data mining empire with a Quest xxx? After tasting the Meta idea of customer service when my Facebook account was hacked and stolen.... not for me.

Or maybe just get a cheap Reverb off Ebay to tide me over until the muddy VR waters become clearer.

 

As I said above I have owned the g2 pico and quest pro I have currently gone back to a g1 cheap as chips can be run on a toaster lol until I go for a Vario but must say the big screen is starting to pull me in because of the blacks so night missions would be a whole new experience in DCS. 

Edited January 5, 2024 by freehand

[NahkaSukka]

My G2 died recently, and will get the Varjo Aero and base stations next week. Can't wait. Better be worth 1600€

[Tea-Pig]

Replacement Reverb cable came today and fortunately seems have fixed things, so I'm spared having to decide on where to go next for a while at least. I still feel tempted to try a Pico4 though. 

[unlikely_spider]

As a long-time Reverb G2 owner, I do have an update with the Quest 3 that I was able to borrow.

Unfortunately for my finances, I am pretty sure I'm going to make the switch. The edge-to-edge sharpness really is a game changer for me. I was getting tired of the very small sweet spot and blurry edges of the G2 which is what prompted my urge to test a Quest 3.

Running the Quest 3 with a cheap cable from Amazon and a 1.3 or 1.4 pixel density in DCS gets the instruments almost as sharp as the G2's best spot, but it's all the way across the lenses. I can't do without that now. And with the ASW on, I can run without DLSS on in DCS which helps clarity as well. This is by no means scientific A/B testing, but it seems upon initial impressions that the Quest ASW works better than the Motion Reprojection in OpenXR Tools, with fewer ghosting artifacts (which also may be due to turning DLSS off?).

There are some cons though:

• It's not as comfortable as the G2, so if I purchase one I'll be looking for aftermarket face plates.
• I don't like the colors as much as the colors in the G2 - it looks a little more "cartoony" - perhaps the saturation is too great?
• I have to figure out how to keep the headset from switching off immediately after I remove it from my face for a second.
• It's Meta, so of course getting the software set up and linked to my account and phone was quite infuriating. And as a non-FB user I didn't already have an account and had to create one, though I'm never going to use the native social apps. I wish all that extra Meta stuff wasn't required to use the hardware.
• And the audio isn't as good. (On that note - if I get headphones - should I plug them into the headset or into my PC?)

Overall though I'm looking forward to a huge upgrade in optics vs the G2 I've been using for years - that outweighs the list of cons. Of course natural law says as soon as I pull the financial trigger, something next-gen is going to be announced.

Edited January 7, 2024 by unlikely_spider

[cordite]

I hope you just created a Meta account? Still not as good as “no account”; I know.

The face mask doesn’t bother me, but an aftermarket head-strap is a big improvement.

It’s a shame HP didn’t try another go with a non-WMR headset; but I guess they never really sorted the cable issues.

Edited January 8, 2024 by cordite

[freehand]

The binocular over lap on the quest pro was terrible for me so when using the edge to edge clarity broke the emersion pico 4 was not as bad.

The usb cable just not doing it for me in either of the headsets it seems to be the norm now which does not equal as good or better when you notice it.