reported Pedals staying forever-trimmed by AI pilot even when "Pedals Trimmer" special option is OFF

[Art-J]

There seems to be a new bug / issue related to anti-torque pedals, probably related to the latest multicrew implementation (?)

Up till recently, when "pedal trimmer" special option was turned OFF (as a compromise for those of us who didn't want the trim to affect pedals), the virtual pedals position always matched the physical ones, no matter if player flew the mission from the pilot's seat all the time, or switched to engineer or gunner positions during flight temporarily.

New incorrect behaviour is as follows (steps to reproduce the issue):

a) Fly the helicopter from either pilot's seat, you may trim the cyclic as required, pedals remain non-trimmable with aformetioned special option being OFF;

b) Switch to any non-pilot position (engineer or gunner) and wait a few seconds. While you do so, AI pilot takes over flying the helicopter, adjusting or trimming collective, cyclic and pedals as it sees fit to maintain level, coordinated flight.

c) Switch back to either pilot's seat. You will notice, that while you're geting full control of cyclic and collective back, the pedals, which were trimmed left or right by AI, stay trimmed that way. You can move them of course, but they stay off-center and not aligned with your physical pedals. I've shown it in a replay track below.

The only way to re-center and realign them again is to use trimmer reset button, also affecting cyclic, which is obviously not desirable.

That's not how they behaved between module release up till recently and it makes "Pedals Trimmer" special option half broken. "Half" broken in a sense, that it remains OFF as long as you fly from pilot's seat only, but anytime AI pilot takes over, it overrides that option and the game works as if the option was ON.

Mind you, it happens only during flight. Switching to engineer's seat while stationary on the ground (for startup or shutdown sequence) doesn't trigger the problem.

My special settings and replay track (recorded in stock Caucasus Freeflight mission) are attached below. Game version is the latest OpenBeta 2.8.8.43704.

Cheers.

Mi-8_trim_test.trk

Edited September 12, 2023 by Art-J

[Art-J]

Bump.

Inspired by the other bug thread with AI activating collective clutch behind player's back, I checked "my" problem again to see if it's not a similar thing here, with AI pilot enabling heading hold mode all by himself (that would explain pedals being trimmed by something, autopilot in such case). Maybe I've just missed it.

Nope, that's not it. Heading hold mode remains disabled all the time when switching from and back to pilot's seat and yet, the pedals remain stuck trimmed by AI even when I'm back at controls. The only way to re-center them is to reset all trims altogether.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Art-J

[LuseKofte]

*In oilfield campaign this is very noiticeable. During heavy slingload it just dive and almost inrecoverable .

Tried to replicate it in a instant action but it was baerly noticable. Anyone else have this problem. Can chang between pilot and co pilot. and to crew chief. when changing from crewchief in the loading bay back to pilot something happens

slingfload.mi8 .trk

[PawlaczGMD]

Yes, I'm not sure of the exact nature of it, but even changing to the engineer in flight can cause a sudden jerk of the heli and uncontrolled flight. I just don't do it in flight. I agree that losing the cargo view is especially painful, but I just use the external view. Honestly, you don't want to see the cargo bay textures anyway.

[SMH]

If changing between the pilot and copilot causes it I haven't noticed it. But now since multi-crew was added it seems we can no longer fly from the engineer position (which used to be kind of a nice thing to do sometimes as it provided a useful view - though it's not realistic so I'm not complaining that it's gone now). That means that the auto-pilot (not a system but rather the modeling of a human pilot) gets activated when you occupy the engineer's seat, as well as it always did when manning the side gunner position. And that auto-pilot sets his own trim so it won't be where you expected it to be when you return to a control seat.

I've also noticed that the (modeled human) auto-pilot doesn't like to fly fast, and will often slow down a lot from the speed I was cruising at when I changed to a position that activates it (almost always the gunner position). So that of course means it needs a different trim set than the one you were using at a higher cruise speed.

I used to fly with a force feedback stick and this was particularly apparent then, as the stick physically moves its center to reflect the force-trim position. I haven't flown with it since the Mi-8 got multicrew, but in the Huey it was amazing to watch my stick jump around as my (actual human) co-pilot changed his trim settings. I assume the Mi-8 does the same thing now (as it should). 

So, I think this is an intentional and necessary thing, at least if I'm understanding you correctly. And don't forget the (unrealistic, imaginary) trim-reset function. That is your friend in DCS helicopters, particularly if you don't have a FFB stick that makes it obvious where the trim is set at. If ever in doubt, hit the trim-reset immediately!

Edited February 19 by SMH

[f-18hornet]

Reported.

[Flappie]

@LuseKofte Can you please confirm the problem described in the thread below is the exact same issue?

 

[MAXsenna]

If changing between the pilot and copilot causes it I haven't noticed it. But now since multi-crew was added it seems we can no longer fly from the engineer position (which used to be kind of a nice thing to do sometimes as it provided a useful view - though it's not realistic so I'm not complaining that it's gone now). That means that the auto-pilot (not a system but rather the modeling of a human pilot) gets activated when you occupy the engineer's seat, as well as it always did when manning the side gunner position. And that auto-pilot sets his own trim so it won't be where you expected it to be when you return to a control seat.

I've also noticed that the (modeled human) auto-pilot doesn't like to fly fast, and will often slow down a lot from the speed I was cruising at when I changed to a position that activates it (almost always the gunner position). So that of course means it needs a different trim set than the one you were using at a higher cruise speed.

I used to fly with a force feedback stick and this was particularly apparent then, as the stick physically moves its center to reflect the force-trim position. I haven't flown with it since the Mi-8 got multicrew, but in the Huey it was amazing to watch my stick jump around as my (actual human) co-pilot changed his trim settings. I assume the Mi-8 does the same thing now (as it should). 

So, I think this is an intentional and necessary thing, at least if I'm understanding you correctly. And don't forget the (unrealistic, imaginary) trim-reset function. That is your friend in DCS helicopters, particularly if you don't have a FFB stick that makes it obvious where the trim is set at. If ever in doubt, hit the trim-reset immediately!

That's interesting. My MS SW FFB2 doesn't do that in the Huey. Which stick did you use?
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[SMH]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

That's interesting. My MS SW FFB2 doesn't do that in the Huey. Which stick did you use?
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

It was a Logitech Wingman Force 3D. 

I think the Microsoft ones have an IR sensor that make the stick go dead when your hand isn't on it.

[Flappie]

4 hours ago, SMH said:

I think the Microsoft ones have an IR sensor that make the stick go dead when your hand isn't on it.

My FFB2 does not do that. My former Logitech G940 did that.

[LuseKofte]

11 hours ago, Flappie said:

@LuseKofte Can you please confirm the problem described in the thread below is the exact same issue?

 

Yes this is the issue. When you really need crew chief point of view with heavy load and are too close to ground this is not recoverable and you crash. This report is exactly what I mean but better described. 

[LuseKofte]

11 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

That's interesting. My MS SW FFB2 doesn't do that in the Huey. Which stick did you use?
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

I have vp force rhino. And it do not behave this way on mine. But I probably can make it do that by manipulate the software. I just think you wear out the stick if you get too much such reaction. VP force also got a very strong motor that easily can (probably) can brake something if you have strong settings on it with sudden movements 

[Flappie]

9 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

Yes this is the issue. When you really need crew chief point of view with heavy load and are too close to ground this is not recoverable and you crash. This report is exactly what I mean but better described. 

Thank you, threads will be merged.

[MAXsenna]

It was a Logitech Wingman Force 3D. 

I think the Microsoft ones have an IR sensor that make the stick go dead when your hand isn't on it.

Thanks! I have removed that LED ages ago.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[BIGNEWY]

posts merged