Do we have NATO Cold war 4th Gen Fighter with 80s avionic to face Mig-29A?

[pepin1234]

As we will get our first Soviet Cold War 4th Gen Fighter Full fidelity, beside him the closest Full Fidelity 80s available for now is the M2000 and F-14A 

So what is the plan for a Cold War Scenery with Such lack of 80s fighters?

Panavia Tornado could be another candidate. F-15C makes sense too.

of course Mig-23ML and F-4, they are just a Gen behind but both sides were plenty of them. Probably in mayor number than 4th gen.

no news on early F-16 versions or F-18? Both of them were really part of the 80s European scenery? 

 

 

[Mike_Romeo]

Id say the F-15C without datalink and just Sparrow is pretty much 80's like

[HWasp]

I'd buy a F-16A, 15A, 18A "downgrade" even though I have the current modules.

Weapon restrictions can solve the problem even right now, more or less, but of course that is not perfect.

[IanC58]

44 minutes ago, HWasp said:

I'd buy a F-16A, 15A, 18A "downgrade" even though I have the current modules.

Weapon restrictions can solve the problem even right now, more or less, but of course that is not perfect.

But do you really want to wait and be teased and Irritated by endless previews, progress updates, peoples I wants and then debates/discussions that get heated?

Id rather see an end point to modules that have been in use for years which are still classed as "early access"  this also reflects on what is currently happening with new modules in development.

Finish up and sign off what we have in a priority order.

Every new update brings new bugs to old modules [that are still classed as early access] which is a constant frustration to a lot of people, 2024 should be a year where this sim and its modules are squared away, finished, completed and maybe give us a years break or more to further enjoy the sim at a stabilized point.

Nothing against development and progression here but maybe ED can do this in the background and only launch it when its fully ready and will integrate into the sim without any bounce back on or to finished modules?

[HWasp]

1 hour ago, IanC58 said:

But do you really want to wait and be teased and Irritated by endless previews, progress updates, peoples I wants and then debates/discussions that get heated?

Id rather see an end point to modules that have been in use for years which are still classed as "early access"  this also reflects on what is currently happening with new modules in development.

Finish up and sign off what we have in a priority order.

Every new update brings new bugs to old modules [that are still classed as early access] which is a constant frustration to a lot of people, 2024 should be a year where this sim and its modules are squared away, finished, completed and maybe give us a years break or more to further enjoy the sim at a stabilized point.

Nothing against development and progression here but maybe ED can do this in the background and only launch it when its fully ready and will integrate into the sim without any bounce back on or to finished modules?

I don't really see, how this is connected to what I wrote, but you are not wrong.

It really is annoying sometimes, I'd also prefer if modules would come out of EA quicker and get completed.

I think that having more versions as I propose would not be against that, it might even help, since that would mean a dev group is more commited to a single type even if versions are quite a bit different, instead of starting something completely new.

[Mr_sukebe]

2 hours ago, HWasp said:

I'd buy a F-16A, 15A, 18A "downgrade" even though I have the current modules.

Weapon restrictions can solve the problem even right now, more or less, but of course that is not perfect.

This is my solution for the missions that I create, ie remove access to Fox 3 missiles, JDAMs, Aim9x etc.  

It’s not perfect, but I’m happy to live with it, as I’d rather have the time/effort required to be used in creating a completely new aircraft, than something that we can emulate to 90% accuracy with little effort

Edited February 8 by Mr_sukebe

[HWasp]

29 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

This is my solution for the missions that I create, ie remove access to Fox 3 missiles, JDAMs, Aim9x etc.  

It’s not perfect, but I’m happy to live with it, as I’d rather have the time/effort required to be used in creating a completely new aircraft, than something that we can emulate to 90% accuracy with little effort

 

Valid point.

My counter argument is, that new versions of the same plane could (and should) be used to finance graphic/system upgrades of the existing version.

My other point would be, that I think the "fun" factor peaked in the 80s latest, and with all the other cold war jets in development, it would make sense to concentrate there and develop a more complete plane set for that period.

[IanC58]

50 minutes ago, HWasp said:

I don't really see, how this is connected to what I wrote, but you are not wrong.

It really is annoying sometimes, I'd also prefer if modules would come out of EA quicker and get completed.

I think that having more versions as I propose would not be against that, it might even help, since that would mean a dev group is more commited to a single type even if versions are quite a bit different, instead of starting something completely new.

The connection is that you want 3 more hi-fidelity all whistles blowing modules, they're not squaring up what we already have.

[HWasp]

2 minutes ago, IanC58 said:

The connection is that you want 3 more hi-fidelity all whistles blowing modules, they're not squaring up what we already have.

If you mean, that they should properly finish the existing ones first, thats ok, nothing against that.

I don't really want anything that much, I'm just signalling my willingness to buy an A version of those planes, any of them, if/when they are available.

[Joch1955]

Mirage F1 and F14A.

[Exorcet]

F-14, FC3 F-15, M2000.

The F-4 will be an 80's version I think and while it is older, that's fine, planes don't always fit into nearly organized match ups in real life. The MiG-29 will be appropriate to fight even the F-16/18 despite being less advanced.

[Northstar98]

The closest contemporary right now is probably the Mirage 2000C, followed by the F-14A and F-15C.

Mirage 2000C has similar weaponry, but a post-Cold War (albeit only just) radar, the F-14A goes further into the mid 1990s, having some of the MMCAP upgrades (namely the radar). The F-15C is supposedly early-mid 2000s with the AN/APG-63(V)1, but being simplified, weapons restricting gets you pretty close.

Once the F-14A-135-GR early releases, that'll be the first true 1980s, 4th generation NATO fighter and the best contemporary to the MiG-29. This would also be perfect if Red Storm Rising-like scenarios are your thing (F-14A vs MiG-29 is exactly what happens in Chapter 31).

Personally, what we're really missing is the F-15A/early F-15C and F-16A to really flesh out late Cold War gone hot (as well as the most relevant theatre for it - Germany).

Edited February 8 by Northstar98
Significant expansion

[buceador]

As the 15C is a FC aircraft that really only leaves the Tomcat, it is a pity that the our F-16 doesn't fit the Aim 7 Sparrow era...

[pepin1234]

very good information source that explain with details the active participation in the 80s Cold War European Scenery. F-16 appeared FIRST in European countries even before Mig-29 did.
 

26 January 1979 BAF accepts first F-16 produced by a European assembly line (No. FB-01).

5 June 1979 The Royal Netherlands Air Force accepts its first F-16

https://www.codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=141

 

[Ramius007]

F-5E Tiger II paid lifting with added late 80's European NATO variant would fit

[Dragon1-1]

We need the F-16A with the old cockpit and small tail. It could be sold as a different module, since it's a very different aircraft from what we have. Fox 2 only, but truly the best dogfighter of its time, and, hilariously enough, could load 6xMERs on both inboards (of course, it didn't have a whole lot of gas if it did that). 

[AeriaGloria]

Honestly the F-4 with AIM-7M isn’t probably far off from MiG-29 9.12 with R-27R. The closer you get the bigger the advantage to the MiG. Though I think the MiG-23ML is a very worthy opponent for F-4 with AIM-7M, 29 9.12 with 27R improves on it capabilities in some more evolutionary then revolutionary ways, with the focus being on dogfighting with 29

As said, F-14 with AIM-7, even Phoenix A, or Mirage 2000C are good opponents. F-15 with AIM-7 would be a close fight I think, F-15 would have quite the BVR edge with its large radar. 

[ESA_maligno]

hace 22 horas, pepin1234 dijo:

As we will get our first Soviet Cold War 4th Gen Fighter Full fidelity, beside him the closest Full Fidelity 80s available for now is the M2000 and F-14A 

So what is the plan for a Cold War Scenery with Such lack of 80s fighters?

Panavia Tornado could be another candidate. F-15C makes sense too.

of course Mig-23ML and F-4, they are just a Gen behind but both sides were plenty of them. Probably in mayor number than 4th gen.

no news on early F-16 versions or F-18? Both of them were really part of the 80s European scenery? 

 

 

Mirage F1.

[pepin1234]

8 hours ago, ESA_maligno said:

Mirage F1.

It’s a third gen fighter and to be honest was not even a threat due small numbers of users and units. But yeah was there as a third gen. Not a Four Gen. Mig-29A counterpart as same generation level is F-16A, F-15A Non of them are even in Road plan. F-14 as a Navy fighter is not a direct counterpart for a MiG-29A frontline fighter. Our M2000, our version come a bit late for a Cold War, probably our M2000 is more compare to 9.13 version of Mig-29.

[Exorcet]

7 minutes ago, pepin1234 said:

It’s a third gen fighter and to be honest was not even a threat due small numbers of users and units. But yeah was there as a third gen. Not a Four Gen. Mig-29A counterpart as same generation level is F-16A, F-15A Non of them are even in Road plan. F-14 as a Navy fighter is not a direct counterpart for a MiG-29A frontline fighter. Our M2000, our version come a bit late for a Cold War, probably our M2000 is more compare to 9.13 version of Mig-29.

The F-14 was a naval fighter for the US, but not Iran. The 29's came too late to participate in the Iran Iraq war, but they were very close to being direct rivals.

FC3 F-15 with simplifications basically lets it stand in for any version as long as weapon restrictions are in place. It would probably be difficult to tell the difference between a FC Eagle and FF Eagle from the cockpit of another plane.

As for the F1 I believe one managed to shoot down a F-14. It's definitely capable of being a threat even if the MiG should have an advantage.

Air combat isn't always neatly sorted. Older jets fly along side newer ones, so it's not really a problem when a version is a few years older or newer, they are still very much in range of each other.

[ST0RM]

On 2/8/2024 at 4:26 AM, HWasp said:

Weapon restrictions can solve the problem even right now, more or less, but of course that is not perfect.

That's most likely the only way we'll see the early variants of what we've got. Limit GPS/Datalink and lock down what weps are available to the user. 

[pepin1234]

27 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

The F-14 was a naval fighter for the US, but not Iran. The 29's came too late to participate in the Iran Iraq war, but they were very close to being direct rivals.

FC3 F-15 with simplifications basically lets it stand in for any version as long as weapon restrictions are in place. It would probably be difficult to tell the difference between a FC Eagle and FF Eagle from the cockpit of another plane.

As for the F1 I believe one managed to shoot down a F-14. It's definitely capable of being a threat even if the MiG should have an advantage.

Air combat isn't always neatly sorted. Older jets fly along side newer ones, so it's not really a problem when a version is a few years older or newer, they are still very much in range of each other.

Mig-29A was delivery to Iraq after peace agreements and they were delivered without weapons. Iraqi used on them old weapons like R-60 (same missile used in desert storm) Also Iraqi were told not to use it in Iran war. The thread is about Cold War 80s 4gen fighters

[Dragon1-1]

We sadly do not have a direct counterpart because ED focused on the latest variants of the jets that they could make, which for Western ones means mid-2000s models, and for Soviet ones it's the MiG-29A. The F-14A would be the only period accurate opponent, you could also consider the FC3 F-15 that, if you give it just Sparrows and Sidewinders. I hope someone makes the C in its 80s incarnation, eventually.

[pepin1234]

At what date and what variant F-15 received the ECM update?

Edited February 9 by pepin1234

[lmp]

Since we're dealing with a fictional cold-war-gone-hot scenario, I don't think it would be much of a stretch to extend the customary 1989 end date into the early 90s (fall of the SU, Georgian independence). Then the RDI equipped Mirage 2000C fits in just fine. And really, in terms of capabilities and role, it's the closest match we have. The Tomcat is in a different weight class and it's older than the Mirage is newer (if that makes sense). So if you want a very "fair" scenario, then it's the Mirage. Of course, in reality, war isn't fair and you see modern, more capable planes fighting along side older, less capable ones. You can balance it with numbers and skill. Consider that if MiG-29s started rolling off the production line in, what, 1983, then you would still need years to train instructors, then regular crews, develop new tactics... By the time the wall fell I expect the MiG-29 units were only beginning to become truly proficient with their machines. It's realistic that the guys flying older jets are better trained and more experienced.

For a late 80s/early 90s "realistic" (rather than "fair") scenario, I think the F-5, F-4, both Mirages, MiG-21, MiG-23, MiG-29 of course, entire FC3 lineup, and Tomcats are all viable. I probably missed some - my rule of thumb is "could it/did it fly in Desert Storm?". Balance them with numbers, weapons, appropriate missions, skill and you're golden.