Thoughts on the new flight model changes?

[Stearmandriver]

On 2/28/2024 at 9:30 PM, Scotch75 said:

However, is anyone noticing a sudden pitch up at the ramp? It is quite abrupt to the point where I feel I have to push forward after being on-speed all the way. Unless it is the burble, but I did not experience any significant down draught prior to the ramp.

This is the same thing the burble would do back when it was first introduced.  It's behavior that doesn't make any sense.  Thankfully, some folks quickly realized that the burble was tied to wake turbulence being on, so you can get rid of this by simply deselecting wake turbulence in the mission editor.  Considering wake turbulence doesn't work realistically either, there really is no reason to have it on.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

2 hours ago, Thorns said:

Is there a way in setup to make the Trim operation move more degrees when hitting the trim button...seems you have to hit the trim button a lot to get where you need it? Asking for a friend...lol. Thanks...

Sure, put in a request to McDonnell Douglas and I’m sure they’ll accommodate you

Edited March 1, 2024 by Raven (Elysian Angel)
Double post for some reason

[EmJay22]

I keep wrecking rear landing gears with pattern landings. Probably because I suck.. but also am still fighting the "new and improved" AOA.  

It seems the recommendation to lower grear and set flaps to full at 250 kts often results in the nose going up too much... probably because I am trimming to much to attain on speed AOA.

This results in a roller coaster ride and usually broken landing gear.   I think maybe in the "old" FM Hornet more trim was needed and now it seems less. 

I have stopped focusing on the pitch degrees and now am only looking a the donut. If the arrow is red, I give it a bit of nose up time and if green, I nudge it down. all the while trying to keep the E bracket next to the velocity vector with the throttle. 

Maybe lower gear below 250 kts, then only half flaps initially and then full when it seems more stable. 

[NineLine]

We generally find that putting the gear down at 250 and then the flaps down only once below 200 works best.

You should also be at idle throttle until around 150ish to arrest speed drop and get on-speed

[EmJay22]

2 hours ago, NineLine said:

We generally find that putting the gear down at 250 and then the flaps down only once below 200 works best.

You should also be at idle throttle until around 150ish to arrest speed drop and get on-speed

That 200 for the flaps works really well along with the idle till about 150. Really helps reduce the nose up effect. 

I've also been playing around with kicking the rudder a bit if the nose is dropping to quickly in a turn. 

Thank you.

[AG-51_Razor]

On 2/26/2024 at 9:29 AM, Fergi19 said:

After the update, my pitch control is terrible for A2A refueling.  The elevator seems to be very jerky causing huge pilot induced oscillations when trying to plug the basket.  I was fairly decent at getting gas before the update, now it is downright frustrating.  This is on the canned mission for CASE 1 landings and hitting the S3 at 300 kts and 15,000’.

I used to have curves set at 25, now it takes at least 50 for the pitch just to get it smooth enough to have a chance.  

Anyone else?

I am experiencing the same thing. I have a 10mm extension on a Warthog stick and have always been quite comfortable behind the basket, day or night but now I am almost totally incapable of getting plugged in, much less staying in! I had a +20 in the pitch curve and bumped it to 25 with no appreciable effect and have tried 30 and now 35 and am still having problems. It is really quite frustrating! All the rest of the changes to the FM seem to be very nice though. 

[Alf973]

Way easier to replicate some airshow displays.....like one below. On the other hand re learning of some basics is necessary.

 

 

[KLaFaille]

6 hours ago, AG-51_Razor said:

I am experiencing the same thing. I have a 10mm extension on a Warthog stick and have always been quite comfortable behind the basket, day or night but now I am almost totally incapable of getting plugged in, much less staying in! I had a +20 in the pitch curve and bumped it to 25 with no appreciable effect and have tried 30 and now 35 and am still having problems. It is really quite frustrating! All the rest of the changes to the FM seem to be very nice though. 

The plane used to instantly stop pitching and maintain its attitude when you pulled slight aft stick and then let it center before the update. Now, doing the same, the plane will continue to pitch up slightly past where you let off the stick, and in order to prevent that, forward stick needs to be applied where it was never necessary to do so before. The plane briefly feels "bouncy" before it settles. The effects on normal maneuvering are negligible, but when it comes to the incredibly fine control needed during refueling, it definitely throws off all muscle memory. Because of this, I've found it very easy to overcorrect by applying too much forward stick where it wasn't necessary in the past, which can result in PIO.

It's definitely frustrating having to learn how to handle this new behavior after you've already mastered refueling.

Edited March 3, 2024 by KLaFaille

[rob10]

1 hour ago, KLaFaille said:

The plane used to instantly stop pitching and maintain its attitude when you pulled slight aft stick and then let it center before the update. Now, doing the same, the plane will continue to pitch up slightly past where you let off the stick, and in order to prevent that, forward stick needs to be applied where it was never necessary to do so before. The plane briefly feels "bouncy" before it settles. The effects on normal maneuvering are negligible, but when it comes to the incredibly fine control needed during refueling, it definitely throws off all muscle memory. Because of this, I've found it very easy to overcorrect by applying too much forward stick where it wasn't necessary in the past, which can result in PIO.

It's definitely frustrating having to learn how to handle this new behavior after you've already mastered refueling.

My experience was that in the previous FM when you let go of the stick it was a little bouncy and dropped from where you had centred the stick whereas now it has more "normal" inertia feel in that it keeps going ever so slightly up, but not enough to require correction in my experience.  If anything I find it more precise with the new FM and makes AAR easier (and I say that as someone for whom AAR refuel is normally fun and easy).

Definitely taking some time to relearn some of the fine details, but overall I'm really liking it.

[MARLAN_]

Finally have flown enough to form an initial opinion:

Overall - I think the FM changes are very good, excellent work from ED. BFM feels much closer to real life as far as I've heard/been told/researched. Nose low game plans finally work which is wonderful. It also seems to regain energy slower which is also more realistic as far as I've been told. Flying in DCS feels more like flying an actual jet and less like being on rails. It took a bit to get used to it, whether its BFM/CASE 1 or AAR, but after getting used to it, I'm quite happy with it.

[Cab]

On 3/1/2024 at 4:55 PM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Sure, put in a request to McDonnell Douglas and I’m sure they’ll accommodate you

 

Sure, put in a request to McDonnell Douglas Boeing and I’m sure they’ll accommodate you. (Fixed it for you )

[maxTRX]

50 minutes ago, Cab said:

Sure, put in a request to McDonnell Douglas Boeing and I’m sure they’ll accommodate you. (Fixed it for you )

OT :   Boeing needs to get their s*** together before I raise my beer glass

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

1 hour ago, Cab said:

Fixed it for you 

Well, no you didn't... The MDD/Boeing merger happened in 1997 so that was well after the legacy Hornet was designed.

[Cab]

57 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Well, no you didn't... The MDD/Boeing merger happened in 1997 so that was well after the legacy Hornet was designed.

Sure, but you were joking about requesting a trim speed change in the present tense not prior to 1997.

[MAXsenna]

I had to test AAR, and for sure it was different. Find the Tomcat easier now, but I'm used to it, so I just have to repractice, and it's harder with the hardware defined deadzone in my MS FFB2. What really caught me off guard was the right roll when extending the probe, and because I'm have modding project for my stick, I have no grip, which makes trimming kinda hard, easily overcome with differential thrust though.
Overall, I'm happy with the update!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I finally managed to damage the landing gear - after trying harder to damage it on purpose. I had to maintain a 5-degree glideslope all throughout the approach until I smacked down on the tarmac at around 1200fpm.
I really don't understand why so many people complain about broken landing gear: simply land within parameters (lower than max landing weight) and maintain a proper glidepath and you won't have any issues 

7 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Find the Tomcat easier now

To be fair, I always found the Tomcat easier exactly because of that roll behaviour: having to maintain lateral stick pressure all the way until contact with the basket - when you suddenly have to return the stick to neutral quickly always seemed odd to me...

[MAXsenna]

I finally managed to damage the landing gear - after trying harder to damage it on purpose. I had to maintain a 5-degree glideslope all throughout the approach until I smacked down on the tarmac at around 1200fpm.
I really don't understand why so many people complain about broken landing gear: simply land within parameters (lower than max landing weight) and maintain a proper glidepath and you won't have any issues 
To be fair, I always found the Tomcat easier exactly because of that roll behaviour: having to maintain lateral stick pressure all the way until contact with the basket - when you suddenly have to return the stick to neutral quickly always seemed odd to me...

Really? So this "roll" behaviour with the probe extended isn't new? I could swear it was, as it was the first time I noticed it. Wonder what setting I changed. Huh.

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[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

33 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Wonder what setting I changed. Huh.

Perhaps wake turbulence was disabled?

[MAXsenna]

Perhaps wake turbulence was disabled?

Aj! Yeah, that might be it. I'll test. Thanks!

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[SickSidewinder9]

Those of you still having so much trouble getting on speed, are you dropping gear and flaps in a turn?  Kinda need to do that.  And yeah, less nose up trim is needed, it seems.

[Chaffee]

On 3/3/2024 at 3:18 PM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

I really don't understand why so many people complain about broken landing gear: simply land within parameters (lower than max landing weight) and maintain a proper glidepath and you won't have any issues 

I think it was simply too easy to land before; you could really slam it into the deck. Now it requires a little bit of touch, at least.
Fortunately everything else about the approach is better, so there's no need to slam it down to catch a wire.

Old habits die hard (same with muscle memory) Gear breakage complaints will fade as people adjust, I suspect.

[darkman222]

Why is the the F18 with the FM update still oscillating left and right, when rolling and pulling up right after that? I thought I heared this would be adressed as well with the update? Or will that behavior stay because its realistic?

[rfxcasey]

Has anyone observed nosediving when coming out of autopilot? Aircraft makes abrupt down posturing as if trim was reset, I believe it was no where near this bad before the update.

[maxTRX]

6 hours ago, rfxcasey said:

Has anyone observed nosediving when coming out of autopilot? Aircraft makes abrupt down posturing as if trim was reset, I believe it was no where near this bad before the update.

Not even a twitch in my test

[maxTRX]

6 hours ago, darkman222 said:

Why is the the F18 with the FM update still oscillating left and right, when rolling and pulling up right after that? I thought I heared this would be adressed as well with the update? Or will that behavior stay because its realistic?

Not like it was way back.  Currently I only notice a wobble if I start rolling without unloading. I think Hornet dampens the inertia a bit better then again I've never flown a real one.