Observations from a real fighter pilot.... Ah HA! I am not the only one!

[flygav]

Somewhere here I seen a post "Observations from a real fighter pilot..." and after 50K missions I'm announcing my retirement, I'm done. I knew I was not the only one. He praised all the positives about DSC we all agree on, then he mentioned the short comings. He mentioned my thoughts (some verbatim) and some only he would know. 

He also said as I have (and people foo foo me when I said this) "I've seen every WW2 film/gun cam there is and I've never seen (109K4) go from a stall at 200ft to 4K ft. over and over again. Real planes can't do that!" He made another point only he would know "Even if a plane could do that, the pilot could not survive those forces." I've said the F22 Raptor with jet vectoring cannot do what the K4 can do. 

His main objection and only fatal flaw with DCS is "They need to fix the flight model..." And I have to agree, I don't know how the K4 slipped by DCS developers but it kills it for me, this is dumb. 

Since I retired I noticed my graphics card logs exactly how many hours you spend on a game. I have logged on DCS exactly... A Bunch! lol. So I have learned these planes FM pretty good. To all the people that disagreed with me... Ah ha I'm not crazy after all! 

DCS could fix this easy enough without even fooling with the FM. Just adjust what the fight pilot said. Make it so the pilot would know if I do all those crazy maneuvers I will pass right out and get killed. Forced them to fly like a real plane, I've never seen a real plane doing wild stick jerking, they cant do that, if they could the wings would come off. 

I don't think WW2 is a real priority for DCS yet. It was kind of an after thought. People like flying those stinking jets for some reason. I don't get thrill from killing someone BVR. I like the up close and personal killing of WW2. And if I was going to go thorough all the work to learn all the radar computer skills in the jets, I would just join the air force and fly a real jet. That's a hell of a lot of work to fly around in your basement. 

 Ten years from now this sim will be pretty cool. Hopefully before then, because I really enjoyed flying here. But if the 109s come its a real game play killer. Sure if you have a group of buddies that work together (Really well) you can get them. But at least one or more of you are going down. I've seen many a fight with one 109 vs 4 allies and he still may fly away... That's not realistic. 

(fly; if you want to have a real fun dogfight, make a map where each man is flying the same plane. Man vs Man, you'll have a real white knuckle exhausting dog fight for sure.)  

Thanks for the good times and letting me vent. I'll be checking in now and then. Until then I'm going to go do something productive with my time.
I'll be playing my new Fender Stratocaster and other top of the line musical equipment. I think I'll form a good wedding band. I finally figured out my type of woman... Young Drunk ones lol. 

See ya around Losers! lol 
Cheers! 

Flygav 

 

[Doughguy]

Yeah. Whatever.

/thread

[flygav]

And what is that supposed to mean? 

On 6/19/2023 at 1:47 PM, motoadve said:

Real pilot, flight sim enthusiast for 30 years, beta tester for some of them, real pilot, 3,000hrs fly often in the backcountry, and off airport, also a warbird in which I do aerobatics and dogfight simulations. 

DCS WWII planes are amazing, they feel realistic, the landings , the take offs, stalls, the feel of flight is there, wake turbulence is spot ON, damage model is very detailed , quite impressive really, some stuff might need a bit of tuning, but overall great.

All of this amazing effort goes down the drain when playing in MP and  the plane in front of you starts to jink up and down positive Gs , Negatives Gs and lots of impossible aerobatics like a super human, because he even does not get tired, and can perform this stunts forever, once this happens DCS WWII feels and looks very arcade, have you ever seen this kind of maneuvers in WWII gun cam footage? Not even close.

If developers can fix this , DCS WWII would become an amazing simulator, the other sim got it quite good (only thing that it beats DCS IMHO).

Its my only real complain, but it really ruins immersion, the rest of the sim its really amazing.

 

 

[Mr_sukebe]

Interesting, but only anecdotal.

Please upload a track file to confirm the details 

[peachmonkey]

I think he's talking about stick pumping and lack of 'real' pilot physiology. Yet complains about the flight model of K4. Go figure.

[Baldrick33]

1 hour ago, flygav said:

And if I was going to go thorough all the work to learn all the radar computer skills in the jets, I would just join the air force and fly a real jet. That's a hell of a lot of work to fly around in your basement.

That is one of the most bizarre comments I have seen on these (or any simulation) forums. Combat flight simulations provide the capability for people of all walks of life and physical abilities to get as close as they can to the experience of flying combat aircraft, however complex they may be and at whatever levels of learning they desire. It is the very purpose of simulations for our entertainment

[unlikely_spider]

24 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

That is one of the most bizarre comments I have seen on these (or any simulation) forums. Combat flight simulations provide the capability for people of all walks of life and physical abilities to get as close as they can to the experience of flying combat aircraft, however complex they may be and at whatever levels of learning they desire. It is the very purpose of simulations for our entertainment

Well, maybe they've got a point. I've spent tons of money on flight sim peripherals and software, and it turns out that all I had to do was completely upend my entire life to join the military and they'd pay me to do the same?

It kind of reminds me of the late 80s, when every kid I knew dreamt of being a plumber when they grew up. Most of us didn't end up going that route, but I'm sure for the ones who did that they are in constant sense of self satisfaction that they're able to earn a living by jumping up with their fists and punching boxes in the air until money stops coming out.

[motoadve]

I do not have complaints about WWII FMs, actually impressed, but the pilot physiology in DCS is very simple and arcade which allows the player to abuse the fighters in a very unrealistic way, it looks like a paper plane.

 

[flygav]

On 2/23/2024 at 2:23 PM, Baldrick33 said:

That is one of the most bizarre comments I have seen on these (or any simulation) forums. Combat flight simulations provide the capability for people of all walks of life and physical abilities to get as close as they can to the experience of flying combat aircraft, however complex they may be and at whatever levels of learning they desire. It is the very purpose of simulations for our entertainment

Oh I understand, your one of those people that sarcasm or satire goes right over your head... I got ya. I keep forgetting about that large segment of population.

Example

When you expected something to happen, especially after warning someone about it someone says, “Well, what a surprise.”

Example

When someone says something that is very obvious:  Really, Sherlock? No! You are clever.

Example

When someone shows you beautiful photos from their vacation:

“What an awful place. I hope to go there someday.”

The person’s response is sarcastic because they are saying the opposite of what is meant to be funny.

Example

When someone does something wrong: Very good; well done!

 

[flygav]

On 2/23/2024 at 2:07 PM, peachmonkey said:

I think he's talking about stick pumping and lack of 'real' pilot physiology. Yet complains about the flight model of K4. Go figure.

Not complaining about stick pumping, even though the wings don't come off. That's not a problem... K4 is the extreme example, never seen a plane go from stall speed at end of runway to yo yoing to 5k ft over and over. They dont have to jerk off the stick when gravity is not an issue. I didnt even bring up the turn on a dime spinning around out, turning with the IL. Whats that about? I dont fly K4, no real sense of accomplishment getting a kill of a lumbering defenseless plane.  But thats just me

[Art-J]

1 hour ago, flygav said:

K4 is the extreme example, never seen a plane go from stall speed at end of runway to yo yoing to 5k ft over and over. 

Good, because neither have we.

Unless one talks about AI plane, or one flown by player, but with game flight mode turned on.

In either case, the only way to make this thread useful is to:

1) Post a short replay track showing what you think is incorrect. Hint - press Ctrl Y (IIRC?) to enable info-bar on the bottom of the screen, presenting flight data, including G-loads.

2) Post real life tech reference data (charts, manuals etc.) showing how much a chosen flight parameter might need to be be tweaked. 

Anecdotal "evidence" is not evidence, developers literally cannot do anything with it even if they wanted, because how are they supposed to adjust numbers in the code if there is no reference?

Take a look at these two examples of how a valuable flight model issue report should look like:

 

[PawlaczGMD]

Your point is not very clear. Is it that G-force modelling should be more severe, including punishment from quickly switching from - to +? 

This might be correct, only people with real experience would know. But you're not making a great argument for it here.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

OP is probably just confusing real airframe capabilities and performances with it's internet line, or the player in front of him, flaws, high pings and whatever. No, a 109K4 can't climb from 200ft near stall to 4K ft just like that, and so you can't do it either when flying the module. Didn't you notice that? You just saw an UFO, a consequence of high pings and lag in the lines, which we've suffered gaming online since ever. Apparently he hasn't known the old times and constant UFOs around you .