Stop the controller ID from changing....

[Toastfrenzy]

Having just fallen foul of this, my throttle, joystick and rudder pedals all being assigned new ID's after moving my PC and (perhaps) not ensuring that I plug them back into the same USB port.

After which I went through a mild Oh no moment and inwardly cried. I made this post as I didn't find this topic first.

 

Is this an impossible change to ask for?

 

I've never had controller issues like this before even back with EAW - but I will happily stand corrected as that was a long time ago.

There must be a reason why everyone is just accepting that this is the way it is, from reading all the many times it's happened and keeps happening to us all.

 

 

 

[Rudel_chw]

1 minute ago, Toastfrenzy said:

Is this an impossible change to ask for?

 

Hello,

Nothing is really impossible, but it would for sure need a serious redesign on how DCS interacts with the Sim peripherals that the users may have.

 

1 minute ago, Toastfrenzy said:

I've never had controller issues like this before even back with EAW - but I will happily stand corrected as that was a long time ago.

 

back on those golden and simpler times, the average Sim user had a joystick and that was it .. in fact it probably wasn't even a USB joystick, but one that connected to the joystick port of your PC, which could handle a maximum of two devices using a Y adapter.

 

1 minute ago, Toastfrenzy said:

There must be a reason why everyone is just accepting that this is the way it is,

 

I may be wrong, but I believe the reason is flexibility: you can connect a staggering amount of Sim peripherals to your DCS, not just the vanilla HOTAS and Rudders, but also Cougar MFDs, a HUD, button boxes, an UFC, etc etc

Currently DCS uses the USB ID that Windows assign to each device, to identify and distinguish between them ... probably this is because the peripherals themselves don't have a standardized built-in ID that DCS could use.

 

1 minute ago, Toastfrenzy said:

from reading all the many times it's happened and keeps happening to us all.

 

I must admit that this puzzles me a bit, as it has not happened to me ... I connect my HOTAS and rudder on whatever USB port I have free on my PC, and Windows does not change the USB ID that it has assigned to them. Maybe some sim peripherals are not so well-behaved as my Thrustmaster and Virpil gear.

To me, the only times the USB ID's of my gear change, is when I reinstall Windows. For example here you can see the dates when my Windows has changed the USB ID of my Hotas and Rudder:

 

 

If the ID changed whenever I unplug-replug my gear, I would have a much larger quantity of these files.

On the times when the ID has changed, I solve the issue by copying the CONTENTS of the old DIFF.LUA file onto the new one, as I find it easier than renaming the files ... is not such a nuisance since it happens seldom.

[Toastfrenzy]

1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:

Nothing is really impossible, but it would for sure need a serious redesign on how DCS interacts with the Sim peripherals that the users may have.

Hi, thanks for your time and detailed breakdown on my post.

I'd be interested to find out the work required, ground up or a change. It's just that for me, if I didn't have to make manual allowances for maybe a coding issue and to have a system that doesn't require much of my intervention is a good place to be?

I did realise that maybe quoting EAW (Released 1998) was a bit far fetched but I did have at one point, 2005 ish give or take for a few years, all CH Products, Fighter stick, throttle and pedals all USB and still no loss of sim key bindings. Any way the past is the past, looking forward.....

 

For you it doesn't happen, now that's interesting. Do you save and rename the lua in the joystick folder or are the names you've showed us the default file names given?

I haven't changed the default ones just saved some bad incomplete "profiles" to another location.

But it's now on my list of things to complete after every Virpil button binding I change. No, it's not that unusual to save game settings, of course, but I've never actually had to use the saved settings in anger - only to revert back changes that I've made and didn't like etc.

 

I would like to try unplugging one of my 3 Virpil controllers in to another usb port, to see again what happens, but I'm done with that now - - they are staying put!

[Rudel_chw]

16 minutes ago, Toastfrenzy said:

I'd be interested to find out the work required, ground up or a change.

 

Probably only an ED developer can answer that, I can only assume that if it were easy to do then they would have already done so.

 

16 minutes ago, Toastfrenzy said:

For you it doesn't happen, now that's interesting. Do you save and rename the lua in the joystick folder or are the names you've showed us the default file names given?

 

The names shown are the default, I don't rename the luas, as for me it is simpler to just open the old lua using notepad++, Ctrl+A to select all, then Ctrl+C. Next close the file and open the new lua, if there is no new lua then you need to enter DCS and bind any command, any will do, as this will create the new DIFF.LUA file. When I have the new LUA open, do Ctrl+A to select all its current content, then Ctrl+V to paste the old content. Now save the file and voila.

Note that only "joystick" files need this, the keyboard, Mouse, and TrackIR sections don't need it as they don't use the USB IDs.

 

16 minutes ago, Toastfrenzy said:

... it's not that unusual to save game settings, of course ...

 

Actually, I'm a big believer on backups, and for DCS I have opted to place the most important configuration folders on a Cloud drive that supports file versioning. On the next image:

 

 

All the folders with a small arrow on its corner is actually not there, on /Saved Games/ but instead it is on my Cloud drive. So, whenever I'm for example editing a Mission, I can restore any prior save of it, like this:

 

 

Anyway, I hope that you now have a broader perspective on how DCS stores all the bindings one makes     On my case, I find DCS to have the most flexible and comprehensive command binding abilities of any Sim that I've ever used.

 

Best regards,

 

Eduardo

[Art-J]

It's not only DCS thing. I had the same issue with Il-2 GB and CloD controller file backups after switching to new computer, albeit to somewhat smaller extent. I guess as long as Windows 10 and 11 work the way they work, there will be USB ID related teeth grinding going on. 

I wonder how MSFS and XP deal with it (haven't played either). And how next gen combat sims (CP and unannouned GB's successor) will tackle the problem.

Edited March 18 by Art-J

[BMD]

I had recently three different usb peripherals chnage ID in DCS without even changing the usb plugs from their place in the mobo. they all happend rather randomly last week, one by one. not sure if it was windows changing usb ids or dcs, but it made my backup input files useless to resolve the issue. To reiterate, nothing changed in my pc. just lost bindings for three separate controllers at three independent times in a week. and the controllers were still visible in the controls pannel in dcs, only with 0 assigned bindings.

[Hiob]

Usually the controller ID does only change if

a) windows is reinstalled (or maybe if it has a major update)

b) the controller got a firmware update

c) (maybe - not sure) if the chipset drivers on your mobo are updated.

Either way it is not the fault of DCS per se.

As Rudel broke down perfectly, DCS using the ID makes sense as of know, due to the plethora of devices (even multiple of the same kind) can be used in DCS. If it can be changed in a useful way - I don't know.

To mediate the problem in the meantime, I would recommend a joystick manager.

[Vakarian]

I mean, as DCS actually manages multiple files for the same device (when such stuff happens you get multiple .diff.lua files for the same device, just different HWID), it would be highly beneficial if DCS controls manager allowed you to scan for such files and automatically restore your bindings.

Right now what you can do through GUI is to go to each and every one of the controls for each and every single one of the aircraft and manually restore profile using previous .diff.lua.

 

Basically, when you startup DCS and it sees that the ID of the devices changed (more than one .diff.lua file for the same device name), it could automatically prompt you to restore control binding from the previous ID and most* of problems would be solved. It could then remove the old .diff.lua so there's always one file per device name.

 

*Still wouldn't fix the issue when firmware update changes the device name, but that's a subset of the problem

Edited March 18 by Vakarian

[Toastfrenzy]

Kinda surprised (?) that there's appears to be a lot of community advice here but no one from ED wants to jump in and get involved  - all what has been suggested in my 2 forum posts works but they all involve things to remember \ some actions to be done.

The one that I'll probably take away involves the least amount of interaction - not that I'm lazy but I know too many clicks becomes an eventual frustration in itself. Who'd thought back in the 80's that clicking a mouse in the 21st Century, too many times, would lead to a loss of sales!

I'll save a copy of the C:\Users\%profilename%\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\Input folder as that will grab everything changed or not.

 

 Now I'm aware, I don't suppose I'll need said backup........

 

 

 

 

[HC_Official]

this is nothing to do with ED, it is just how windows "works", tho I did work out how to deal with this issue

Here is my tutorial video on this

 

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Thanks for your reply @HC_Official Sorry but I do disagree with you there, it has lots to do with DCS. Customer satisfaction for one.

In simple terms if I create a thing to work alongside another thing that's been around a few years and that thing then breaks my thing - whose responsibility is it to get my thing working again?

I'll hopefully not make this post to you but to the general reader - nothing is personally aimed.

 

Control assignments and their workings is possibly the number one general dissatisfaction DCS users have with DCS.

Yes, we all have our own tastes and quirks but from what I've read whilst searching for help with my controller issues, lots of DCS users - who post -  seem to have had controller assignment issues and or are taking very robust measures to avoid experiencing controller issues.

Why was Joypro created? To solve a shortcoming in a bought piece of software. 

To cite some posts' I've read;

you have taken a great deal of frustration out of the little recreation time I have

looked at the start screen, realized I'd have hours of control configuring to do...closed the game

Got a friend who wants to get back into DCS but can't be bothered to set up controls again (lol)

Have been a fan of DCS for many years, however, have not spent many hours on it due to hotas setup difficulties. I am once again struggling with setup issues after convincing myself to purchase the F18 Hornet. Same frustration is emerging
 

I know (somehow) the people who actually post, anything, online is a very small proportion of a user base - 

Take right now DCS forum 21-03-2024 1035 GMT Who's Online   193 Members, 0 Anonymous, 925 Guests

You can be sure that even on top of those 1000, of those 193 members maybe 5 will post, there are lots more who don't even bother with forums etc for games.

I had a discussion with my daughter just recently - didn't know some stuff and embarrassed\not confident to put her hand up in class. I said don't be embarrassed as you can be 100% sure at least 1 other person (if not more) will be wondering the same thing-got the same problem. Take a breath put your hand up and brave it out - you'll feel better afterwards and maybe get thanks, even a discrete nod of appreciation from others - in the same situation too.

In other words don't just sit there and do nothing. I also said going round in circles trying to accomplish what should be a straight forward enough task is also like doing nothing as eventually you'll end right back at where you started from.

 

I did reach out to ED and did get feedback that they are working on a control wizard to be released at some point in the future.

To be honest with DCS, as a relatively new user had I the very short amount of free time I had previously to 12-18 mths ago I'd still be playing War Thunder 100% of the time. As that's a game - love it or hate it - you can pick up and just play. Now, if I can't dedicate a couple of hours then I don't even look at DCS.

 

Fun fact; I stopped playing other flight sims back in 2013-14 and have 100% only played War Thunder until March 2023 when I felt I had the time and was ready to get back into some more serious stuff - I chose DCS - did I make a mistake - I genuinely don't think so, it's not been an easy ride more's the pity.

 

 

what a post!

 

Edited March 21 by Toastfrenzy

[HC_Official]

Well if my tutorial or virpil joystick ID tool or Joypro cannot help then the only solution would be to plug stuff into the same USB port it was in originally to stop this issue

As I said earlier the GUID's are controlled by windows

 

 

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Sorry if I omitted that I did in fact download and have set up Joypro - a useful tool, that I've now spent the best part of 8-10 hours on over the last few days configuring and the like.

Joypro is a good tool for sure but it still requires a certain level of aptitude, knowledge and dare I say it perseverance to workout why one keybind won't get exported when 50 will. It's a good tool for all the generic controls but for the Spitfire alone I've added 25 individual relations, not a complaint just an observation. Got the BF109, P51's P47, and both Fw's to do. I tried importing from DCS but it brings everything for the planes you select - whereas I probably only need 10-15 ish.

It's another layer of "complexity" that in my view could be well avoided.

In my simplistic view, all these controller "wheels" that have been re invented, as it where, many many hours spent by the community to improve a product could've (should've?) been undertaken by the source via feature request etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware of software life cycles, workflow priorities and the like. RnD and nice touches don't bring in the cash, releases and shiny things do.

Edited March 22 by Toastfrenzy

[HC_Official]

I like to do things the simple and efficient way, so with my games including DCS I use joystick gremlin  (only thing bound in DCS is axis)

In gremlin I create button press to keyboard press bindings on all my buttons, so for example that means that button X on my device sends a keyboard press g to windows

means that this specific button does gear up / gear down for all DCS aircraft, makes my life simpler and the same button does the same function on each DCS aircraft

[Toastfrenzy]

Don't disagree at all for same control across modules. What about all the individual controls etc that are unique to individual modules (which I was referring too)?