cannot reproduce F16 Datalink Broken

[Lennard]

Hi,

Pretty much every flight we have done in our squadron lately, we have been unable to rely on datalink. We know you have to wait to turn on MIDS LVT until after GPS SYSTEM TIME is visible on the TIME page, and we do exactly that. It usually works in the beginning of the flight, but every time at some point in the flight we will suddenly lose each other on the HSD without anyone doing anything. I cannot provide a track file as we fly together in multiplayer, but this issue has been happening very consistently and always seems to happen somewhere around 30 min - 1 hr after takeoff.

[Lord Vader]

Hi, @Lennard

We are sorry you are having issues with DLINK in DCS. From your words, you seem to be doing the right procedure by waiting for the "GPS" flag in the TIME DED page, about one minute after GPS initialization. 

However, we do need to see what's happening during the time you experience this, and a track is the only way to observe it. 

Multiplayer tracks are automatically recorded on your "Saved Games/DCS/Tracks/Multiplayer" folder. See if you can get one, short if possible.

[Shibiswag]

On 3/27/2024 at 8:51 AM, Lennard said:

Hi,

Pretty much every flight we have done in our squadron lately, we have been unable to rely on datalink. We know you have to wait to turn on MIDS LVT until after GPS SYSTEM TIME is visible on the TIME page, and we do exactly that. It usually works in the beginning of the flight, but every time at some point in the flight we will suddenly lose each other on the HSD without anyone doing anything. I cannot provide a track file as we fly together in multiplayer, but this issue has been happening very consistently and always seems to happen somewhere around 30 min - 1 hr after takeoff.

You have to go into the DED and turn the DL off and back on, sometimes it takes multiple times, but it does fix it and get's it going.
It was driving me crazy.
I found this video to be helpful.

@Lord Vader I believe this is what he might be talking about but not sure.
The same issue happens to me as well, on a cold start, though I always use strd heading. alignment.
But even following the correct procedures I have to do what is done in the video to get the DL to actually show up in the HSD

Edited April 15, 2024 by Shibiswag

[Furiz]

@Shibiswag Hey, this video is 3 months old, there has been updates. Post a short track of the issue happening now.

[Shibiswag]

On 4/15/2024 at 11:28 PM, Furiz said:

@Shibiswag Hey, this video is 3 months old, there has been updates. Post a short track of the issue happening now.

I'm aware of the fact that it's 3 months old. 
I'm aware there have been updates.
There's no need to post a track as that same issue is still happening at least to me where from a cold start I have to turn the data link off then back on in the DED to get anything to show up on the HSD.
I always run a repair and clean after every update, even for testing I installed and additional copy of DCS to a separate drive and it happens on that one as well.
So, there's no misconfiguration or any game file issue as the bug is prevalent in both.

[Gilligan]

Can confirm F16 DataLink is still broken.

Sometimes it works for a while but eventually the "GPS SYSTEM" will not update in the TIME page on the DED. Sometimes this doesn't matter, and Turning the MIDS to ON will still get the Datalink up and running, but sometimes not. It's very inconsistent. 

Hitting Enter Does nothing. The DLINK page on the DED is completely broken and will not open. I will try and get a track file the next time this happens.

 

Added a TRK file from just a moment ago where GPS SYSTEM would not come on and the DLINK page in the DED would not open.

Through_The_Inferno_SYRIA_v4.0.6-20240601-163923.trk

Edited June 1, 2024 by Gilligan
attached trk

[Gilligan]

Did another attempt just now.

 

GPS SYSTEM did not come on in the TIME page on the DED, and the DLINK page would not open in the DED

 

HOWEVER, I turned MIDS on without the GPS SYSTEM updating in the time page and the MSD did show Data Link tracks, and I could then open the DLINK DED page and cycle the GPS TIME on/off. 

None of this got the GPS SYSTEM text to update in the TIME DED page. 


TRK attached.

Through_The_Inferno_SYRIA_v4.0.6-20240601-170755.trk

[Gilligan]

Here's  a Track where everything worked as intended for comparison.
 

Through_The_Inferno_SYRIA_v4.0.6-20240601-194642.trk

[Gilligan]

Just went back up.

Data Link was working, but not as intended 

 

GPS SYSTEM did not show, Turned MIDS on, Had to cycle GPS TIME on in the DED TIME page, Data Link came on.

Respawned and it was completely broken. No GPS TIME, No Data Link Tracks if I turned MIDS on. Cycling the GPS TIME in the TIME DED page had no effect. 

I'd Attach the Track but it's 54 MB. 51 MB Compressed. I'd be happy to upload/Send it some other way.

 

EDIT: Here put it in a drop box:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/r2r2t4alojb3bm34p9asr/Through_The_Inferno_SYRIA_v4.0.6-20240601-201735.trk?rlkey=u7x68nh40guq8cyuqvlu899tb&st=nwgqa2qq&dl=0

 

 

Edited June 2, 2024 by Gilligan

[Lord Vader]

Hey @Gilligan

The GPS Time status will only be obtained when the system can observe LOS with orbiting satellites. So, for example, if you are beneath an obstacle, like a Hangar, it may just happen you will not get the notification and need to wait until you leave the hangar to then get GPS Time status.

Turning on MIDS before getting that status will introduce a Datalink error due to poor GPS time information, however. This particular step is very important and if not respected it could result in datalink position failures. 

[Gilligan]

Interesting - Okay I'll do some more testing with it. IIRC most of the issues I've been having correlate with a hangar start and that makes sense. Thanks for the tip.

[dggoofy]

Hi ,

 

Well, Try every thing, but could not get the DALALINK working.

Could you describe exactly what to do!

[Furiz]

1 hour ago, dggoofy said:

Hi ,

 

Well, Try every thing, but could not get the DALALINK working.

Could you describe exactly what to do!

Hey,

Perform proper alignment of the aircraft, then set MIDS LVT knob to ON, on the ICP press LIST > ENTER to get to Data Link NET STATUS page and press 1 on the ICP - NET STATUS page to turn GPS TIME - ON.

And that's it.

If you still have problems please post a short track showing the issue so we can see what is going on.

Edited July 13, 2024 by Furiz

[gordenjay]

Hi, Is datalink still broken or am I doing something wrong?

I can't never properly setup datalink in my own mission but able to do it in instant action,

In my experience, GPS system never show up in DED time page after flipping GPS switch,

and GPS time in NET status is always off by default, datalink info will be gone if switch GPS time to on.

I've attach track file below.

 

F16datalinissue.trk

[falconzx]

no need to go in TIME page. Just go in DLNK page: in P1 you have the GPS time, press any number to switch it to ON. When done, you should see the SYNC on the bottom going from COARSE to FINE.
Then you can go in P3 and set your TNDL table as your preference with your team mates. Remember to CONFIRM the OWN number, even if it's correct you have to digit it again and press ENTER. (This is still a bug in current version!)
 

[Nealius]

Is there something specific that needs to be done so that certain aircraft appear on datalink? I've noticed that C-130, KC-130, and helo AI do not appear on datalink like they used to.

[Yaga]

4 hours ago, falconzx said:

Remember to CONFIRM the OWN number, even if it's correct you have to digit it again and press ENTER. (This is still a bug in current version!)

I believe the Own # bug is fixed as of last update. We have been able to add flight members without needing them to do this first.

[gordenjay]

I think I crack the code,

After testing I found out that CJTF was unable to access GPS,

and since I use only CJTF Blue and CJTF Red in my mission, I was unable to get GPS System/DLNK SYNC.

Now, I can set up Datalink properly after enforcing SATNAV/ add US in colation.

[falconzx]

Il 17/08/2024 at 07:13, Yaga ha scritto:

I believe the Own # bug is fixed as of last update. We have been able to add flight members without needing them to do this first.

Nice, i didn't find it on changelog, we will test it soon.

[Lord Vader]

Hello @gordenjay

That's interesting. So you're saying that the Combined Joint Task Forces BLUE faction isn't getting GPS data?

I am sorry but I've just tested this faction and cannot reproduce this. Even if you choose CJTF RED it will still pick up GPS, only not using the same precision keys, unless the mission has "Unrestricted SatNav" option turned on.

Without a track, it's hard to say what was set up in the mission you were on. I also cannot see if you're inside an hangar, therefore unable to get a proper GPS satellite signal reception like I explained above. 

[gordenjay]

Hi @Lord Vader

I Just quickly throwing a fresh mission together, setting was as follow:

Coalition: CJTF Blu & CJTF Red

Location: Caucasus - Batumi 05 (No Object above)

Cold starting F16

Result: No GPS system for 5 min after switch INS knob to NAV.

2nd test use same setting but with Unrestricted SATNAV.

Result: GPS system within 2 min after switch INS knob to NAV.

I've attached both track and mission below,

not sure if this is just a anomaly or something else.

F16DATALINKTest(UnresSATNAV).trk F16DATALINKTest.trk F16DATALINKTest.miz

[itn]

I believe the issue stems from not having USA in the coalition. I don’t have a track and didn’t check any of the previously posted ones, but I encountered this on a mission. When BLUE had only CJTF Blue, Norway, Sweden, Finland, my Norwegian Viper had no GPS. Only after I added USA to the blue, the GPS on Norwegian Viper started working. 

Blue: CJTF Blue, Norway, Sweden, Finland - no GPS for Norwegian F-16s

Blue: CJTF Blue, Norway, Sweden, Finland, USA - yes GPS for Norwegian F-16s

Will add track later if needed. 

[Lord Vader]

Hey @gordenjay, thanks for the files.

And yes, @itnis right. On its own, the CJTF or any other blue coalition will only share GPS data is the US side is also on that coalition.

I am almost sure this is intentional, but I will ask internally as it sounds like a limitation. Thank you for bringing this up.

[Lord Vader]

Hi again, @gordenjayand @itn

After consulting the developers, this is an intentional limitation.

The USA Faction is considered the maintainer of the GPS satellite data (and keys). Therefore the factions can only benefit from the GPS access if this country belongs to the same side. 

[itn]

2 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

Hi again, @gordenjayand @itn

After consulting the developers, this is an intentional limitation.

The USA Faction is considered the maintainer of the GPS satellite data (and keys). Therefore the factions can only benefit from the GPS access if this country belongs to the same side. 

Thanks for the information.

Without going into a longer critique/wish/rant here, the GPS degradation/availability details really ought to be properly documented and preferably shown in Mission Editor / game UI somewhere for mission editors and players to see. IMO they ought to be re-evaluated, which maybe you will do at some point. Meanwhile we have Unrestricted SATNAV which we can use to bypass all that, so not that big of an issue.

Edited August 23, 2024 by itn