SAM Evasion

[Safari Ken]

Howdy! I could use some advice from you chopper veterans. I've had Black Shark for a little while now, and I love it dearly. I've gotten pretty good at flying the thing, and I'm getting better in combat all the time, but when it comes to SAM's I feel completely useless.

 

I try to do what's logical; I stay as low as I can, try to keep from silhouetting against the sky (dunno if that matters in the sim, but I feel better with a hill behind me), light off flares like a madman when a SAM has been launched, but no matter what I do, the presence of a launcher is a death sentence for me. :helpsmilie:

 

I would very much appreciate any tips you guys have!

[159th_Viper]

Recon ;)

 

Plot your Ingress. Ensure that your intended path is clear of threats. If you're not sure then don't venture down the road less travelled :)

 

And yeah - dependant on the particular SAM, Flares are useless ;)

[Safari Ken]

Recon is part of the problem. I have trouble spotting those tiny launchers, even when I know right where they are! I'd search with the Shkval, but mostly I have no chance to do so, before there are already little smoke trails inbound.

[nachomaga]

Yep, recon is important.

 

But when I´m in trouble with SAMs, I switch extrenal view, always looking at SAM , them I go down, and do some zig-zag, changing my course all the time (ok, you´ve got to be at medium altitude to doing this). It works for me (well, I crashed sometimes, hehehe).

[TangoRomeo]

Try using your wingman if contact is likely. If on attack route and nearing battle position i´ll send him out a few KM while observing if he draws any fire, and the location it's coming from. He will also send you information via the DLink.

 

Generally i try to destroy targets at max. standoff range the current system allows for, it gives me some time to assess, maneuver and react to missiles that might be send my way. As for evading - your best bet is putting some object between you and the missile. However, most of the time i have trouble dodging them if no objects are around, i simply cannot get a high enough angular velocity and at the same time stay within the flight envelope.

Edited April 19, 2009 by TangoRomeo

[Skydoc]

My technique is to put the missile on your beam (3/9 o'clock) dive quickly toward the ground while launching flares on the side facing the incoming missile. If you can find a hill or even a hotel to hide behind, that is even better. Just watch for vortex ring - don't just dump collective in a hover; can't tell you how many times I have killed myself that way...

 

Of course, as mentioned, knock out launchers frm a distance; but the little manpad guys are really hard to see! And if you order your wingmen to take out AA Threats, they do not kill manpads. The good news is that they havelimited ammo - three shots I think - and wingmen are pretty good and making the manpads fire off their stash...

[fox_111]

If there are hills and citys, I fly very low in between them. In city, it's easy to move around, following the streets. But in general, a good recon of the map and having a safe route plotted around the threat erea is a must.

 

During campain, it's impossible to do, but if it's a custom mission, it can be arranged.

[Safari Ken]

That's all good advice. Viper's "Plot your Ingress" comment made me think, and I came to realize that I have a tendency to follow the waypoint lines on the ABRIS as closely as I can, I guess due to the amount of civilian flight sims I've played over the years. Of course this is a little different than doing the Portland to Seattle run in a Cessna. :smilewink:

 

So I just went back to a mission that's been giving me issues, and instead of following the lines, I looked at my destination and found a way that followed the valleys, instead of cutting across the mountains all the time. When I finally got to my target, I took a good look at the topography of the area, and picked a clever place to be. I don't think the enemy ever even got a shot off at me, while I sat back and destroyed vehicle after vehicle.

 

A scenic flight back to the FARP, along with a passable landing, makes this easily the best mission I've flown on in Black Shark to date. Thanks guys! :thumbup:

[spyda]

i find its better not to take the SAM launch head on, better to put the missile on your 3 or 9 etc and drop flares every 2 or so seconds.

 

speed helps as well not a nice feeling when your in a hover and a MANPAD sends a missile your way :joystick:

[ZaltysZ]

If you manage to find good spot for "dance", SAMs my run out of missiles and you will get a few minutes window to engage them without their retaliation while they are reloading. Not very realistic approach, but it works.

[EtherealN]

One more thing: don't wait for missiles to be launched to unload flares, especially in MANPADS territory. I usually have a pretty conservative flare sequence programmed and when I'm in an area that I know is hot I launch them in intervals to upset enemy targeting.

 

Seems to work relatively well when looking at after-action reports in Tacview, but it's of course not a license to fly around close to SAMs and MANPADS with no thought.

[muamshai]

I usually fly very slow in threat area (10 - 15 m), and keep my eyes and skhval display open.

[159th_Viper]

That's all good advice. Viper's "Plot your Ingress" comment made me think, and I came to realize that I have a tendency to follow the waypoint lines on the ABRIS as closely as I can, I guess due to the amount of civilian flight sims I've played over the years. Of course this is a little different than doing the Portland to Seattle run in a Cessna. :smilewink:

 

So I just went back to a mission that's been giving me issues, and instead of following the lines, I looked at my destination and found a way that followed the valleys, instead of cutting across the mountains all the time. When I finally got to my target, I took a good look at the topography of the area, and picked a clever place to be. I don't think the enemy ever even got a shot off at me, while I sat back and destroyed vehicle after vehicle.

 

A scenic flight back to the FARP, along with a passable landing, makes this easily the best mission I've flown on in Black Shark to date. Thanks guys! :thumbup:

 

There you go!

 

Now you're starting to think like the Leopard and not the Impala :D

[EtherealN]

That's a really good analogy actually, Viper. :)

[Yskonyn]

I usually fly very slow in threat area (10 - 15 m), and keep my eyes and skhval display open.

 

I guess you meant 'low' instead of 'slow'? ;)

 

Great advice here in the thread. Keep it up, guys!

[159th_Viper]

Just dawned on me.........

 

Probably not as relevant in a Singleplayer mission as opposed to Multiplayer with Human Opfor, but IIRC relevant nontheless wrt AI logic (subject to confirmation by those in the know).

 

That said, when doing a Fence Check prior to an engagement, ensure that all Landing Lights/Formation Lights/Nav Lights/Anti-Collision beacons are switched off!

 

You spot a Bandit from miles away (and I mean a good many miles away) all lit up like a Christmas Tree with not-so-random bursts of technicolor in a valiant attempt at hiding his/her position........Futility ;)

[EtherealN]

Aye, forgetting those on is a bit like flying a high-tech stealth aircraft on deep penetration while having the radar transmitting at full power. :P

[Yskonyn]

Are formation lights switched entirely off IRL?

They have a nice brightness switch so I assumed they were switched to the lowest brightness setting to keep pilots oriented towards eachother while in flight.

[EtherealN]

I'm not sure, but I would assume that it all depends - in good visual conditions they might be left off in combat missions, in night flying they might give it a low setting just to make sure the formation doesn't end up killing each other.

 

But I don't know what the actual doctrine on the area is. Would be interesting to know tho.

[Acedy]

Depends on a lot of factors, mainly weather and visibility + formation. Also pilots might just blink the lights if they get disorientated (similar to keying the mike to get position/heading via ADF), or for communication, and there may be only one or two aircraft of a flight that have lights on so that the others can use this as a reference for formation flying, or to attract/distract enemy fire.

 

@OP: another thing that you can do when you travel through an area with possible MANPAD threats is to order your wingman into a loose trail formation, he will then call out missile launches below/behind you.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Acedy

[Yskonyn]

Thanks for the input.

Great info!

[Safari Ken]

Now you're starting to think like the Leopard and not the Impala :D

 

Hehe, I feel like I "leveled" in combat choppering this weekend. I've flown a few missions since then, and they've all be pretty darn good. It just took that little change to my way of thinking.

[muamshai]

I guess you meant 'low' instead of 'slow'? ;)

 

Great advice here in the thread. Keep it up, guys!

 

Outch...freudian slip :doh:

[Madman777]

Howdy! I could use some advice from you chopper veterans. I've had Black Shark for a little while now, and I love it dearly. I've gotten pretty good at flying the thing, and I'm getting better in combat all the time, but when it comes to SAM's I feel completely useless.

 

I try to do what's logical; I stay as low as I can, try to keep from silhouetting against the sky (dunno if that matters in the sim, but I feel better with a hill behind me), light off flares like a madman when a SAM has been launched, but no matter what I do, the presence of a launcher is a death sentence for me. :helpsmilie:

 

I would very much appreciate any tips you guys have!

 

This is EXACTLY why I'm buying TrackIR....CANNOT WAIT to join the cool club...haha