Flaming Cliffs 2024

[w00dy]

I have only just found out about Flaming Cliffs 2024 update, will it also be on steam and any idea when it's out during the summer?

I have had FC3 in my Steam account for about 12 years and never really played it, but have decided to give it another go. Especially as it has VR support and I fancy giving jets ago for a change, as I normally play IL2-Sturmovik.  

[BIGNEWY]

4 minutes ago, w00dy said:

I have only just found out about Flaming Cliffs 2024 update, will it also be on steam and any idea when it's out during the summer?

I have had FC3 in my Steam account for about 12 years and never really played it, but have decided to give it another go. Especially as it has VR support and I fancy giving jets ago for a change, as I normally play IL2-Sturmovik.  

Hello and welcome to the forum, yes will also be available for steam, we will be sharing more news about FC2024 soon. 

thank you 

[cfrag]

On 5/30/2024 at 1:19 PM, w00dy said:

I have had FC3 in my Steam account for about 12 years and never really played it

IMHO, FC 3 is one of the hidden DCS gems. It's inexplicable to me that ED publishes such a fine module in such an inaccessible state. The secret to FC3 is to first do the the Flanker tutorials (which are not good). You need this because many FC3 planes share a lot of functionality that you can't learn otherwise. It also doesn't help that HUD symbology is positively alien to anyone used to Western HUDs. Once you can reliably take off, navigate, and land in the Flanker, maybe even deploy some weapons, you  can switch to the other planes. Reading TFM helps. At that point, there are also some really good tutorials available, for the A-10 this may be helpful:

A-10A Flight School (Training Missions) (digitalcombatsimulator.com)

It seems moderately successful in getting the important points across

Edited June 1, 2024 by cfrag

[draconus]

1 hour ago, cfrag said:

Once you can reliably take off, navigate, and land in the Flanker, maybe even deploy some weapons, you  can switch to the other planes.

I don't get why would you learn the Flanker if you want to fly other aircraft?

[cfrag]

4 minutes ago, draconus said:

I don't get why would you learn the Flanker if you want to fly other aircraft?

Which word in 

1 hour ago, cfrag said:

You need this because many FC3 planes share a lot of functionality that you can't learn otherwise.

didn't you understand?

[draconus]

16 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Which word in 

didn't you understand?

Where's the connection I don't see? I learned flying and operating F-15C (standalone) even before buying FC3. You say I should've learned Flanker first because it shares something with other aircraft? Keybinds or that both have wings?

[cfrag]

37 minutes ago, draconus said:

I learned flying and operating F-15C (standalone) even before buying FC3. You say I should've learned Flanker first

I never talked about you, and my apologies if I have previously failed to point out that the world does not revolve around you. I was talking about FC3, which I deem as a tremendous value module that may be difficult to access because (in my mind) so little is said about how to get the most out of it. In my humble opinion one approach to "crack" FC3 and truly enjoy it is, as I wrote, to first learn the Flanker, and then branch to the other FC3 planes because they share so much common functionality.

I'm happy for you that you learned the F-15C on your own, outside of the FC3 context. Well done!

[shinobi61]

FC3 is great and only really misses one feature, Ability to make couple waypoints from map markers! even if it was only 2 or 3.
The FC2024 modules are welcome additions, sure some different / new modules would be better but hey more is more. I just wish they got a little love like this waypoint suggestion, they fill a gap in DCS and are good entry to the sim but when you start doing missions or multiplayer they are so disadvantaged becuase no ability to set points on the fly.

Edited June 1, 2024 by shinobi61

[draconus]

43 minutes ago, cfrag said:

In my humble opinion one approach to "crack" FC3 and truly enjoy it is, as I wrote, to first learn the Flanker, and then branch to the other FC3 planes because they share so much common functionality.

And I'm simply curious why the Flanker you think should be first. They all share a lot, I agree, also with FF modules. Why not Su-25 for example or F-15C?

[cfrag]

46 minutes ago, draconus said:

I'm simply curious why the Flanker you think should be first.

Because it is the only one with an acceptable (I'm not saying good here) suite of training missions that come with FC3: start-up, take off, landing, sensors etc. There are none for the western planes, and a very diminished set of training missions for the others. So, the easiest way is to get your initial chops with the Flanker.

[shinobi61]

there is a good set for f15c on userfiles however

 

[Irisz]

Dear fellow Flanker fans and esteemed ED developers,

Unfortunately, no one will post secret military documents on the forum. It's unfortunate that ED is so strict about FC3 and doesn't understand that it could be a little more lenient with this product, emphasizing playability and ensuring that any changes made do not detract from the value of the FC3 product for the success of DCS World.

The J-11A in FC3 does not match the real Chinese J-11A MLU Flanker! It has a stronger N001VE radar. There’s no need to violate military secrets; simply correct the radar as described in the information on the forum about the N001VE. I have provided substantial information about the J-11A. It could be updated with compromises. The MFI-55 display is completely secret, so as the entire FC3 product is built, functions that enable the use of KH-29T, KH-31P, and KAB-500KR weapons could be created. The KH-31P anti-radar missile could work just as the Su-25T uses the KH-58 and the KH-25MPU! The KH-29T and KAB-500KR, which have been researched for years for use by the J-11A, could also be implemented. These weapons work with TV display targeting, and the OLS could be aimed as it works in the Su-25T!

You could enhance FC3's appeal without violating military secrets and thereby have more satisfied DCS World users. Although three new aircraft types were announced in FC2024, they do not address this issue.

I reiterate that FC3 is not about simulating real functions but presents simplified functions, and many people love the FC3 product for this reason. This philosophy, with which the FC3 product was created, would make the J-11A more similar to the real-life J-11A!

I respectfully ask the developers to consider this. It does not require many years of development to implement the changes I have described, but it would make DCS World much more attractive!

We also know that if a product is attractive, many more people will spend money on it. I think this is worth keeping in mind!

Edited June 5, 2024 by Irisz

[Avimimus]

Any word on if FC2024 will include fuzes for the the Soviet bombs or rockets? The RBK series in particular really needs it (and is being left behind with the updates to NATO bombs). The KMGU could also do with having settings configurable in the mission editor.

P.S. Don't some Russian rockets have airburst modes as well?

[todd022]

So what does this mean for those of us who purchased these "new" FC3 aircraft as individual modules (F-5, F-86, etc.)??

[NightHawk1867]

"What does Flaming Cliffs 2024 mean and how will FC2024 affect, if any, aircraft modules that are already owned by users? Such as the F5E II Tigershark and F86F Sabre both by Belsimtek"

The above question should have been answered by now. DCS need to be clear about this before people purchase Flaming Cliffs 2024.

I would expect each FC2024 aircraft to be standalone and not affect other purchased aircraft modules. But you never know.

[mikko.1842]

On 6/15/2024 at 6:02 AM, todd022 said:

So what does this mean for those of us who purchased these "new" FC3 aircraft as individual modules (F-5, F-86, etc.)??

If you bought high fidelity F-5, F-86, etc... it means :

"Now, you will have to pay extra money to be able to fly simplified FC24 versions. Thank you for your pa$$ion passion. Of course you will be able to fly both of the versions, as they are different products."

Edited June 16, 2024 by mikko.1842

[Scendore]

So you're saying for those who have already purchased the F5 F-86 and the Mig 15, we are getting different dumbed-down versions?  This doesn't make any sense. I get why they would add these planes to FC to make it more attractive to new players but to dumb them down would be a mistake.  Oh and I agree some improvements on the existing FC planes such as data link etc would really help in the MP arena.  

[Ironhand]

1 hour ago, Scendore said:

So you're saying for those who have already purchased the F5 F-86 and the Mig 15, we are getting different dumbed-down versions?  This doesn't make any sense…

Dumbed down in the sense of simpler systems handling. What’s the alternative? Paying for the same FF version again?

 

 

[draconus]

2 hours ago, Scendore said:

So you're saying for those who have already purchased the F5 F-86 and the Mig 15, we are getting different dumbed-down versions?

You're not getting anything. Not even discount as you're clearly not the target for this product and this wouldn't make sense unless you actually like the simplified systems and non-clickable cockpit.

[Exorcet]

2 hours ago, Scendore said:

So you're saying for those who have already purchased the F5 F-86 and the Mig 15, we are getting different dumbed-down versions?  This doesn't make any sense. I get why they would add these planes to FC to make it more attractive to new players but to dumb them down would be a mistake.  Oh and I agree some improvements on the existing FC planes such as data link etc would really help in the MP arena.  

Nothing is happening the FF planes. FC2024 has absolutely nothing to do with them.

[Scendore]

46 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

Nothing is happening the FF planes. FC2024 has absolutely nothing to do with them.

Okay so it's separate. Makes sense.  Thanks for the clarification  

[Czar66]

On 6/16/2024 at 5:32 AM, mikko.1842 said:

If you bought high fidelity F-5, F-86, etc... it means :

"Now, you will have to pay extra money to be able to fly simplified FC24 versions. Thank you for your pa$$ion passion. Of course you will be able to fly both of the versions, as they are different products."

 

Just don't touch the mouse. FC4 for free. I don't get why being annoyed about something that you already have being purchasable.

Any clarification is appreciated.

Edited June 18, 2024 by Czar66

[draconus]

10 hours ago, Czar66 said:

Just don't touch the mouse. FC4 for free. I don't get why being annoyed about something that you already have being purchasable.

There're more differences than that and it seems some small part of DCS users prefer it or at least like to use it from time to time. Just to name the most obvious:

• navigation based on predefined waypoints and including all air port locations in landing mode, no TACAN, ADF, etc.
• easy radio comms, menu controlled, no frequency or other settings avilable, you can hear all your coalition messages
• simplified weapons and sensors operation, no master arm switch, no fuze or pylon settings, just general change weapon
• common main modes: nav/landing, BVR, auto acquisition modes, boresight, air-to-ground...
• no control for cockpit lights, ECS, oxygen, countermeasures setting
• no ground power, air or wheel chocks available
• auto IFF
• no control of fuel flow between tanks
• no controls over electrical systems - just general on/off switch
• no BITs/tests
• missing or wrong radar modes
• no warming up times for systems (except ECM)
• no NVGs, helmet visors
• limited jettison options
• ...

[Czar66]

2 hours ago, draconus said:

There're more differences than that and it seems some small part of DCS users prefer it or at least like to use it from time to time. Just to name the most obvious:

• navigation based on predefined waypoints and including all air port locations in landing mode, no TACAN, ADF, etc.
• easy radio comms, menu controlled, no frequency or other settings avilable, you can hear all your coalition messages
• simplified weapons and sensors operation, no master arm switch, no fuze or pylon settings, just general change weapon
• common main modes: nav/landing, BVR, auto acquisition modes, boresight, air-to-ground...
• no control for cockpit lights, ECS, oxygen, countermeasures setting
• no ground power, air or wheel chocks available
• auto IFF
• no control of fuel flow between tanks
• no controls over electrical systems - just general on/off switch
• no BITs/tests
• missing or wrong radar modes
• no warming up times for systems (except ECM)
• no NVGs, helmet visors
• limited jettison options
• ...

So, in other words, no reason to be pissed about it being available as FF still is a superior experience regardless of the mouse usage.

Thanks draconus. Quick question if I'm not bothering: For those who own the FC3 planes, are the FC4 planes different to require a new purchase of them (disregard the 3 new ones)?

[draconus]

20 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

So, in other words, no reason to be pissed about it being available as FF still is a superior experience regardless of the mouse usage.

Thanks draconus. Quick question if I'm not bothering: For those who own the FC3 planes, are the FC4 planes different to require a new purchase of them (disregard the 3 new ones)?

This is just an option. If you already own FF modules you're not affected by FC2024. If you want simplified systems versions you'll have to buy them either with FC2024 pack (or upgrade from FC3) or as single modules.

All FC3 aircraft will be the same in FC2024. If you don't want new aircraft added, no reason to upgrade.