RSBN & ARK Still Missing

[DragonSoulkin]

So as it stands with the MiG-21bis in DCS, we have non-editable (without breaking integrity check) RSBN and ARK beacons on the following maps through the use of an R_NAV_data.lua.

• Caucasus
• Nevada
• Normandy (why?)
• PersianGulf
• Syria
• TheChannel (again why?)

We are missing an R_NAV_data.lua for the following maps:

• Kola
• Sinai

I have attempted to create such a .lua from scratch for the Sinai map, but was ultimately unsuccessful. I figured with successfully adding more beacons through the R_NAV_data_Caucasus.lua that I could just make one for Sinai and well, nothing happened but a big waste of time. Now with Kola released (yes, I know, EaRlY aCcEsS), that now makes 2 maps with absolutely no navaids besides a map, compass, and stopwatch, making navigation in the MiG-21bis comparable to WWII, but for whatever reason, those maps HAVE those navaids.

I don't understand what goes into making these navaids, nor do I understand why after all this time that Sinai STILL doesn't have any, and now another map doesn't as well. Both of these maps have quite a bit that can be done historically with MiG-21, but as it stands we just gotta muddle through.

 

So is there a workaround we can do in the interim, or are we just up a creek without a paddle till judgment day is at hand? Is anything being done to fix this lack of navigation systems for these maps? And lastly, why isn't there an RSBN beacon that can be placed like the TACAN beacons through the mission editor?

[goestrip]

Hey,

eager to fly the mig in Kola, i started looking into adding some navaids into the map (well into the mig21 itself actually since it does it differently).

Long story short, if you wanna do it yourself here are the steps:

- navigate to the mig21 navaid lua files:  <dcsInstallFolder>Mods\aircraft\MIG-21bis\Cockpit\Systems

- edit R_NAV_data.lua and add "Kola" after syria in the Maps_Tables

Maps_Table = {
	"Caucasus",
	"Nevada",
	"Normandy",
	"PersianGulf",
	"TheChannel",
	"Syria",
	"Kola"
}

- then in the same folder, create a R_NAV_data_Kola.lua file (you may copy and rename one of the existing ones from other maps for simplicity sake). Then create/edit the RSBN and ARK objects, here is an example where I just added one RSBN and ARK at Rovaniemi, Finland:

RSBN_data_Kola = {
	map_location = 'NE',
	{
		airbase = 'Rovaniemi',	-- 1
		lat = 66.5658333,
		long = 25.84,
		alt = 634,--
		rwy = 03,--
		length = 2000,
		code = '-- --. -.. ' --/N/ MGD_
	},
}

ARK_data_Kola = {

	map_location = 'NE',

		--/N/ ARK sector 1 I, channels 1 - 9
	{
		country = 0	
	},

	{
		country = 0	
	},

	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		--9
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
	--/N/ 10th channel must be empty
		country = 0
	},
	
	--/N/ sector 1 II, not in use in order to separate UKR from RUS frequency fields
	{
		--1 / absolute 11
		country = 'Finland',
		freq = 336,
		lat = 66.56583,
		long = 25.84,
		location = 'Rovaniemi',
		code = '.... - -.-- ' --/N/ HTY_	
	},	
  --rest omited for brievity
  }

 

It works as expected, I get the morse code.

Beware of the comments in the file before editing, especially the morse code format.  

I'll share mine when i'm happy with it.

Enjoy

 

[Rudel_chw]

22 minutes ago, goestrip said:

I'll share mine when i'm happy with it.

thanks a lot for the Tutorial, and look forward to your file … as the Viggen and the MiG-21 are the most natural cold war aircraft to use on this map. 

[DragonSoulkin]

In my numerous attempts at creating an R_NAV_data_Sinai.lua I never could get anything out of it, as if the .lua wasn't there at all, so I was holding off on creating an R_NAV_data_Kola.lua as I didn't want to sit and waste my time for another thing that couldn't be done on the user end.

 

So it's working then for Kola? Does it break Integrity Check?

[Volator]

16 hours ago, goestrip said:

works as expected

And it doesn't break integrity check?

[goestrip]

well, i managed to join servers with IC enable on Kola in a mig21... so i guess it doesn't break it

[DragonSoulkin]

Well if it doesn't break IC yet, it will. Like anything else that seemingly arbitrarily triggers Integrity Check Failure like changing the default kneeboards or a briefing menu image.

[artao]

It really is ridiculous that users have to get so desparate that they try to figure out how to do this themselves. Sad, really.

[Rudel_chw]

12 minutes ago, artao said:

It really is ridiculous that users have to get so desparate that they try to figure out how to do this themselves. 

 

You are totally right ... those desperate users should instead be quietly waiting until the developer can finally put together enough resources to do it ... modding the game makes them look so desperate and ridiculous, one should never demean to that level, isn't it? 

[skywalker22]

On 5/5/2024 at 7:11 PM, goestrip said:

Hey,

eager to fly the mig in Kola, i started looking into adding some navaids into the map (well into the mig21 itself actually since it does it differently).

Long story short, if you wanna do it yourself here are the steps:

- navigate to the mig21 navaid lua files:  <dcsInstallFolder>Mods\aircraft\MIG-21bis\Cockpit\Systems

- edit R_NAV_data.lua and add "Kola" after syria in the Maps_Tables

Maps_Table = {
	"Caucasus",
	"Nevada",
	"Normandy",
	"PersianGulf",
	"TheChannel",
	"Syria",
	"Kola"
}

- then in the same folder, create a R_NAV_data_Kola.lua file (you may copy and rename one of the existing ones from other maps for simplicity sake). Then create/edit the RSBN and ARK objects, here is an example where I just added one RSBN and ARK at Rovaniemi, Finland:

RSBN_data_Kola = {
	map_location = 'NE',
	{
		airbase = 'Rovaniemi',	-- 1
		lat = 66.5658333,
		long = 25.84,
		alt = 634,--
		rwy = 03,--
		length = 2000,
		code = '-- --. -.. ' --/N/ MGD_
	},
}

ARK_data_Kola = {

	map_location = 'NE',

		--/N/ ARK sector 1 I, channels 1 - 9
	{
		country = 0	
	},

	{
		country = 0	
	},

	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
		--9
		country = 0	
	},
	
	{
	--/N/ 10th channel must be empty
		country = 0
	},
	
	--/N/ sector 1 II, not in use in order to separate UKR from RUS frequency fields
	{
		--1 / absolute 11
		country = 'Finland',
		freq = 336,
		lat = 66.56583,
		long = 25.84,
		location = 'Rovaniemi',
		code = '.... - -.-- ' --/N/ HTY_	
	},	
  --rest omited for brievity
  }

 

It works as expected, I get the morse code.

Beware of the comments in the file before editing, especially the morse code format.  

I'll share mine when i'm happy with it.

Enjoy

 

Hi, how close are you to finish files for ARK and RSBN navigation? 

[artao]

On 6/20/2024 at 3:09 PM, Rudel_chw said:

 

You are totally right ... those desperate users should instead be quietly waiting until the developer can finally put together enough resources to do it ... modding the game makes them look so desperate and ridiculous, one should never demean to that level, isn't it? 

WOW did you misinterpret what I said.
I mean it's a sad state of affairs when the players have to do something the devs should have already done. Not saying anything against or about people modding the game. It's a shame devs have made players so desperate for a fix they had to dive into the files and fix it themselves. Kudos to them for doing it; they shouldn't have had to.
That's all I'm saying.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, artao said:

WOW did you misinterpret what I said.

I interpreted what you actually wrote, nothing more. 

[skywalker22]

  

On 6/20/2024 at 9:52 PM, artao said:

It really is ridiculous that users have to get so desparate that they try to figure out how to do this themselves. Sad, really.

I agree. Since in DCS we have pre-Gen4 aircrafts, it should be self-evident that the map would have these 2 types of navigational system ebedded and fully working. Its not that much of a work, compared to the map it self. Its really a shame we have to constantly use F10 map instead, to visually check where we are and where we are heading (at least thats what I do, since there isn't any other way for this types of aircrafts).

Edited June 25, 2024 by skywalker22

[skywalker22]

Btw, @BIGNEWY, there are some discrepancies in RSBN navigational system of DCS between files, for example:

- in Causasus map folder (Beacons.lua), channel 20

{
        display_name = _('Mozdok');
        beaconId = 'airfield28_8';
        type = BEACON_TYPE_RSBN;
        callsign = 'MZ';
        frequency = 820000000.000000;
        channel = 20;
        position = { -83636.195312, 154.866778, 834226.937500 };
        direction = 82.763916;
        positionGeo = { latitude = 43.790367, longitude = 44.602658 };
        sceneObjects = {'t:678823329'};
    };
 

- in Mig-21 aircraft folder (R_NAV_data_Caucasus.lua), channel 9

{
        airbase = 'Mozdok',    --9
        lat = 43.79167,
        long     = 44.60056,
        alt = 150,--155
        rwy = 83.2,
        length = 3500,
        code = '-- --- --.. ' --/N/ Moz_
    },
 

This two channels should be of the same number, right? It goes for the same becon station. I found this issue my self, but not sure how many there are, I doubt its the only one.

But in the Mig-21 only the channel 9 works. 20 does not. Would be cool fixing it.

[Tarres]

@skywalker22 MiG-21Bis uses a proprietary system for all the beacons (you can even place a beacon over the sea if you want). Remember that was designed to be a program outside DCS envoirement at first.

When it became a DCS module no work was done in order to have a properly functional navigation system.

RSBN system was designed and implemented in DCS from Blackshark 1 onwards.

The same applies to the NDBs, 21 requires a proprietary beacon in order to make their ARK system to be functional.

ARK systems works as intended in DCS L39 (manual) and ARK-15 (Yak-52 with preprogrammed frequencies via ME)

Edited June 25, 2024 by Tarres

[skywalker22]

16 minutes ago, Tarres said:

@skywalker22 MiG-21Bis uses a proprietary system for all the beacons (you can even place a beacon over the sea if you want). Remember that was designed to be a program outside DCS envoirement at first.

When it became a DCS module no work was done in order to have a properly functional navigation system.

RSBN system was designed and implemented in DCS from Blackshark 1 onwards.

The same applies to the NDBs, 21 requires a proprietary beacon in order to make their ARK system to be functional.

ARK systems works as intended in DCS L39 (manual) and ARK-15 (Yak-52 with preprogrammed frequencies via ME)

 

Ok, thx for clarifying it, didn't know all that. So everything will stay the same way it has been until now. 

[Tarres]

Yes, until M3 make a 21 v2.0. Very difficult with old the old code from Lomac that the 21 code has. It needs a whole new code from scratch.

(Sorry for my English, writing from a mobile)

Edited June 25, 2024 by Tarres

[skywalker22]

  I did the RSBN navigation table for the Kola map, for all the airports which are currently there (also for Severmorsk-2 ), and also the appropriate kneeboard. It works like charm.

Here you can download it: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3339195/

--

BUT WE HAVE AN ISSUE, changing the R_NAV_data.lua file fails Integrity Check in multiplayer.

File is located in folder:  ...\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\MIG-21bis\Cockpit\Systems

So, I am asking @BIGNEWY or @NineLine if is it possible before next update of dcs on July 3rd comes out, to change the file R_NAV_data.lua from 

Maps_Table = {
    "Caucasus",
    "Nevada",
    "Normandy",
    "PersianGulf",
    "TheChannel",
    "Syria"
}

to this:

Maps_Table = {
    "Caucasus",
    "Nevada",
    "Normandy",
    "PersianGulf",
    "TheChannel",
    "Syria",
    "Falklands",
    "Sinai",
    "Kola"
}
 

So we could use RSBN navigation system on all the maps without IC issue in multiplayer.

Then we have to create files: R_NAV_data_MAP_NAME_HERE.lua (examples: R_NAV_data_Kola.lua, R_NAV_data_Sinai.lua, R_NAV_data_Falklands.lua).

Question is, does these files also have to be somehow implemented into IC, to avoid failing in multiplayer? 

PLEASE ED, is it possible? 

[DragonSoulkin]

So we're still back at square one with either modding it ourselves, breaking integrity check, and not being able to play on most multiplayer servers, or using what some considers cheating/lazy/immersion breaking unless we all navigate via a map, compass, and pencil using dead reckoning.

[Rudel_chw]

2 minutes ago, DragonSoulkin said:

So we're still back at square one with either modding it ourselves, breaking integrity check, and not being able to play on most multiplayer servers

I simply use a Mod Manager, and just disable Mods before going into MP.

[DragonSoulkin]

21 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

I simply use a Mod Manager, and just disable Mods before going into MP.

That's not the point though. Having/using a mod manager has nothing to do with the fact that without breaking integrity check we don't have RSBN/Ark, and if we do we then can't play in most multiplayer servers without disabling it and being back where we started.

[Rudel_chw]

10 minutes ago, DragonSoulkin said:

That's not the point though

my point was that your prior post made it seem like there was no other option, when using a mod manager allows us to keep the mod for SP while disabling it for MP.

[skywalker22]

  

1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:

I simply use a Mod Manager, and just disable Mods before going into MP.

Whats the point, if you can't use RSBN or ARK in multiplayer servers? I don't fly offline at all.

 

1 hour ago, DragonSoulkin said:

So we're still back at square one with either modding it ourselves, breaking integrity check, and not being able to play on most multiplayer servers, or using what some considers cheating/lazy/immersion breaking unless we all navigate via a map, compass, and pencil using dead reckoning.

I asked @BIGNEWY and @-Rudel- to include fixes into DCS (also for the upcoming Afghanistan map). It it not a lot of work to make it work.

[BIGNEWY]

I can mention it to the team but I can not make any promises 

thank you 

[artao]

On 6/25/2024 at 2:39 AM, skywalker22 said:

  

I agree. Since in DCS we have pre-Gen4 aircrafts, it should be self-evident that the map would have these 2 types of navigational system ebedded and fully working. Its not that much of a work, compared to the map it self. Its really a shame we have to constantly use F10 map instead, to visually check where we are and where we are heading (at least thats what I do, since there isn't any other way for this types of aircrafts).

 

I like to use the pop-up kneeboard which is available in every aircraft. I make it small and put it directly in front of me. Then when needed I pop it up and spam the "mark my location" button to make my location and heading in relation to all the waypoint apparent and clearly defined; I find a single one doesn't always show up that well.
The mssing thing with this method is you can only follow the waypoints and see the topography. No other flights nor, more importantly, any SAM/AAA information. I've taken to adding well-labeled waypoints on or near such sites (and Bullseye), then they show up on the kneeboard. But no radar/weaspon range information. It's a tradeoff. .. I mostly play in VR, so jumping to F10 and back can be a bit jarring; particularly how close the map is to my face (not adjustable without affecting cockpit position, sadly)