cfrag Posted April 13 Posted April 13 1 minute ago, Hammer1-1 said: the evidence thats already been listed 10 times You seem to think that that evidence is relevant. Since you are kind enough to give me advice allow me to give some as well: try and stay objective, and do not try to armchair judge the public side of a private suit. 3
gbk Posted April 13 Posted April 13 (edited) Not adding fuel to the fire but after spending hard earned cash for ALL abandoned RB modules in here and I have to admit: ...Been there, done that again, and again and again...even when there was nobody else to blame.. "About Us RAZBAM Simulations has been creating top-notch military and civil aircraft simulations since 2003. Until recently, RAZBAM development was focused exclusively on the Microsoft Flight Simulator series, including Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 and Microsoft Flight Simulator X. However, the team has stepped away from developing for the aged Flight Simulator X, and into the split future of flight simulations: Lockheed Martin's Prepar3D (for civil aircraft) and Eagle Dynamics' Digital Combat Simulator (for military aircraft)." "Legacy Products | Razbam Simulations" ..More abandoned products from the past, but still being sold .....even Thirdwire Strike Fighters planes, and left unsupported because they "stepped away". Lets hope this will be rectified with the DCS modules and a solution will be found, but I've learned my lesson. Not a penny anymore for any RB module and for whatever the platform, existing or ficticious. Edited April 13 by gbk 3 1
C3PO Posted April 13 Posted April 13 Is there a way to turn off email notifications just for this thread but keep others? 1 Now: Water-cooled Ryzen 5800X + 64GB DDR 4 3600 (running at 3200) RAM + EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra 24 GB + Pimax Crystal Light + Add-on PCI-e 3.1 card + 2x1TB Corsair M.2 4900/4200 + TM HOTAS Warthog + TM TPR Pendular Rudder 'Engaged Defensive' YouTube Channel Modules: F/A-18C / AV-8B / F-16 / F-15E / F-4E / Persian Gulf / Syria / Nevada / Sinai / South Atlantic / Afghanistan / Iraq Backup: Water-cooled i7 6700K @ 4.5GHz + 32GB DDR4 3200MHz + GTX 1080 8GB + 1TB M.2 1k drive & 4K 40" monitor + TrackIR
LordOrion Posted April 13 Posted April 13 12 minutes ago, C3PO said: Is there a way to turn off email notifications just for this thread but keep others? Click on the orange "Following" button on the top right of this page. 2 1 RDF 3rd Fighter Squadron - "Black Knights": "Ar Cavajere Nero nun je devi cacà er cazzo!" "I love this game: I am not going to let Zambrano steal the show." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CPU: i7-11700K@5GHz|GPU: RTX-4070 Super|RAM: 64GB DDR4@3200MHz|SSD: 970EVO Plus + 2x 980 PRO|HOTAS Warthog + AVA Base + Pro Rudder Pedals|TrackIR 5|
bfr Posted April 13 Posted April 13 9 hours ago, PhantomHans said: ED would pay them to prevent ED from violating the agreement. ED would then file a civil suit for damages over whatever they perceived as a violation. What would be the point of that? Assuming RB is a fairly hand to mouth organisation (and handing over anything owed would mostly then disappear on paying contractors etc) then you could later win those damages but there be little or nothing from which to actually realise them. 1
LordOrion Posted April 13 Posted April 13 7 minutes ago, bfr said: What would be the point of that? Assuming RB is a fairly hand to mouth organisation (and handing over anything owed would mostly then disappear on paying contractors etc) then you could later win those damages but there be little or nothing from which to actually realise them. I think he belive that in that case RB whould continue work on their modules. 1 RDF 3rd Fighter Squadron - "Black Knights": "Ar Cavajere Nero nun je devi cacà er cazzo!" "I love this game: I am not going to let Zambrano steal the show." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CPU: i7-11700K@5GHz|GPU: RTX-4070 Super|RAM: 64GB DDR4@3200MHz|SSD: 970EVO Plus + 2x 980 PRO|HOTAS Warthog + AVA Base + Pro Rudder Pedals|TrackIR 5|
Frost Posted April 13 Posted April 13 (edited) I just want to know one thing. Will the F-15E work in the future? If so I'll keep it even though it will stay EA forever. If the module's functioning can't be guaranteed I'm forced to apply for a refund. Edited April 13 by Frost
LordOrion Posted April 13 Posted April 13 Just now, Frost said: I just want to know one thing. Will the F-15EX work in the future? If so I'll keep it even though it will stay EA forever. If the module's functioning can't be guaranteed I'm forced to apply for a refund. ED stated that they will do their best to keep it alive as it is now, wich means "no improvements and no bug fixes". The problem is that they probably can't keep it alive forever, so sooner or later it will stop to work. 2 RDF 3rd Fighter Squadron - "Black Knights": "Ar Cavajere Nero nun je devi cacà er cazzo!" "I love this game: I am not going to let Zambrano steal the show." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CPU: i7-11700K@5GHz|GPU: RTX-4070 Super|RAM: 64GB DDR4@3200MHz|SSD: 970EVO Plus + 2x 980 PRO|HOTAS Warthog + AVA Base + Pro Rudder Pedals|TrackIR 5|
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted April 13 ED Team Posted April 13 4 minutes ago, Frost said: I just want to know one thing. Will the F-15EX work in the future? If so I'll keep it even though it will stay EA forever. If the module's functioning can't be guaranteed I'm forced to apply for a refund. We have ensured it works as is for over a year, it is a great module, enjoy it. 4 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
bfr Posted April 13 Posted April 13 15 minutes ago, LordOrion said: I think he belive that in that case RB whould continue work on their modules. Meanwhile in the real world then most people at least understand ED using what leverage they had available whilst they believe they've been wronged against. 1
Beirut Posted April 13 Posted April 13 11 hours ago, cfrag said: Let’s all just STFU and not become silly muppets in this farce. @BIGNEWY, please close this thread, . . . I don't understand why people who don't enjoy this thread spend so much time in it, read every post, participate in it with their posts... and then ask that it be closed so others can't participate in it and enjoy it as they see fit. The solution is fantastically simple and ever so easily achieved - ignore this thread. Problem solved. I've lost count of how many have asked that this thread be closed and then continue to participate in it for weeks and months. 7 Some of the planes, but all of the maps!
Frost Posted April 13 Posted April 13 3 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said: We have ensured it works as is for over a year, it is a great module, enjoy it. First of all, I meant F-15E, not F-15EX(embarassing). A year is ok, but I have so little time for DCS and so many modules to fly. Therefore a year can be very short in effect. I'm kinda leaning torwards a refund and buying Afghanistan.
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted April 13 ED Team Posted April 13 6 minutes ago, Frost said: First of all, I meant F-15E, not F-15EX(embarassing). A year is ok, but I have so little time for DCS and so many modules to fly. Therefore a year can be very short in effect. I'm kinda leaning torwards a refund and buying Afghanistan. It is a choice for you to make, either way I hope you continue to enjoy DCS when you get time to fly. Have a great Sunday 1 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
cfrag Posted April 13 Posted April 13 17 minutes ago, Beirut said: ignore this thread. Problem solved. Indeed. Apologies for being an ass. 4
Rosebud47 Posted April 13 Posted April 13 @cfrag you´re not an ass. I think you´re very right in your view. Hammer is also right in his view, if you ask me. I don´t care for this thread or Razbam´s problems, but do like the exchange with smart people. There won´t be a a lawsuit or court, maybe some mediator to find an agreement between them, because Razbam is in Paraguay as far as I know and ED is not, also Razbam is probably not present in the countries jurisdiction, where ED is. So, evidences are obsolete. You´re right saying, what we get from the internet is just public relations from each side. This is all none of my business, but maybe ED is now also dealing with refunding the payments, which were received via their shop, who knows. I hope ED will make a Mudhen out of the announced F-15C one day, would be cool. Also liked the Harrier and hope another 3rd party might do a brand new Harrier at some point. In anyway there are enough fantastic modules around to enjoy. AH-64D Apache / F-16C Viper / F1 Mirage / Mi-24 Hind / F-14b Tomcat
Beirut Posted April 13 Posted April 13 56 minutes ago, cfrag said: Indeed. Apologies for being an ass. Not at all. We're all just playing along in the flightsim drama. Keeps us entertained while we await the Germany map. 1 Some of the planes, but all of the maps!
Aapje Posted April 13 Posted April 13 36 minutes ago, Rosebud47 said: There won´t be a a lawsuit or court, maybe some mediator to find an agreement between them, because Razbam is in Paraguay as far as I know and ED is not, also Razbam is probably not present in the countries jurisdiction, where ED is. So, evidences are obsolete. That's not how it works. You are not magically safe from the law by being in a different country. The courts themselves decide where jurisdiction lies, and they tend to be pretty good at making sure that there is always at least one court that has jurisdiction. In this case, it is probably Swiss law, since ED chose Swiss law for their contracts. 2
Tank50us Posted April 13 Posted April 13 1 hour ago, Rosebud47 said: I hope ED will make a Mudhen out of the announced F-15C one day, would be cool. Also liked the Harrier and hope another 3rd party might do a brand new Harrier at some point. In anyway there are enough fantastic modules around to enjoy. As I've said in the past, if RB decides to fully sever ties, I do hope ED can get the source codes and assets for the modules in question, and give us some new features or new variations. Who knows, I wouldn't be at all surprised if ED made some variations if they got the code and assets, sold us those with the OG aircraft being 'free additions'... or something....
PhantomHans Posted April 13 Posted April 13 2 hours ago, bfr said: What would be the point of that? The point of that would be to show the court thay "I am upholding my end of the deal, they are the bad guys." I'm sick of this whole thing. ED has removed all Razbam products from the store. Good first step. Now give me all of my money back for all Razbam products, not some store credit that theres nothing I want to buy with, and then I'll be happy. It seems pretty clear that Razbam has gone the way of VEAO and that's fine as long as I'm not left holding the bag. 1 More Cowbell VF-84 Tomcat Skins!
cfrag Posted April 13 Posted April 13 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Aapje said: The courts themselves decide where jurisdiction lies They really do not. A court decides if the litigator/plaintiff who files a complaint has standing with them based on local law, the matter at hand, and if they (the court) are competent at hearing the case (for example a civil court will not hear a criminal complaint, etc.), and a court can then move to accept the filing. If a court rejects a filing, they do not tell litigator which other court will accept, nor will a court by itself ever move to accept a case without it being filed there first. Courts only ever reject filings, they do not seek them out, and they do not negotiate amongst them who accepts which case, especially not across borders. So, it is up to plaintiffs to find a court that will hear their case, and yes, that can be in a different country, so just being in a different country will not protect you from litigation. Then again, if a company sues and wins in a different county, it can be a long, arduous process fraught with uncertainties to have that ruling enforced. So if e.g. you, as a UK company, have a claim adjudicated in, say, a Swiss court (because both companies agreed to have all issues settled in Switzerland) against a Brazilian company conducting business in the USA, good luck having it (the ruling) enforced outside of Switzerland, for example the US or South America, or even UK. That is why there are so many financial companies registered out of Bermuda or the Channel Islands. That works as a very effective shield against litigation because many claims are unenforceable inside those territories. 53 minutes ago, Aapje said: they tend to be pretty good at making sure that there is always at least one court that has jurisdiction. It would indeed be good if that was the case, but this in not how the judicative system works, and even less so when multiple countries are involved. If you think that you have a valid claim, it's up to you to find a court that will hear you, and that can be exceedingly difficult. 53 minutes ago, Aapje said: In this case, it is probably Swiss law, since ED chose Swiss law for their contracts. It's likely to be a Swiss civil court, if the contract that governs the issue at hand stipulates that both parties commit to have all issues resolved by Swiss law (often a boilerplate passage in contracts). AFAIK we haven't reached that stage yet - and Swiss IP law is very, very tricky - so it would probably be more opportune to seek out a settlement after US IP laws. Enforcing any ruling is a completely different matter, even trickier, which is why most disputes of this matter are settled out of court, and hence my prediction that this will also go that way. In any event, I'm hoping that whatever happens I can continue to enjoy my Mudhen, Falklands, Harrier and Mirage. I'm loathe to re-experience what happened to my Hawk. (and yeah, I really should STFU now ) Edited April 13 by cfrag 1
Beirut Posted April 13 Posted April 13 17 minutes ago, cfrag said: It's likely to be a Swiss civil court, . . . Yeesh, the proceedings must be so polite and clinical. 1 Some of the planes, but all of the maps!
Mike Force Team Posted April 13 Posted April 13 @cfrag I suggested offering a payout to end the payment issue. This is one way to resolve the the problem and both businesses could part ways. In turn, this opens up opportunities for new and upcoming module developers to create replacements for the RB modules.
AndyJWest Posted April 13 Posted April 13 1 minute ago, Mike Force Team said: @cfrag I suggested offering a payout to end the payment issue. This is one way to resolve the the problem and both businesses could part ways. In turn, this opens up opportunities for new and upcoming module developers to create replacements for the RB modules. Paying someone for non-compliance with the terms of a contract would be a peculiar way to run a business. 9
Czar66 Posted April 13 Posted April 13 15 minutes ago, Mike Force Team said: @cfrag I suggested offering a payout to end the payment issue. This is one way to resolve the the problem and both businesses could part ways. In turn, this opens up opportunities for new and upcoming module developers to create replacements for the RB modules. What you mean with 'create replacements for the RB modules'? Nobody would be interested in working for years to 'replace' anything for free. You shouldn't expect either people having the interest of re purchasing a module they owned into a new one for early access with new bugs and quirks, and that excludes the good features by Razbam on those modules. 2
Aapje Posted April 13 Posted April 13 2 hours ago, cfrag said: They really do not. A court decides if the litigator/plaintiff who files a complaint has standing with them based on local law, [yadda yadda] Not sure what the point is of all this pedantic waffling. Your arguments fully support my point that the courts decide standing. Quote and Swiss IP law is very, very tricky The statement about an IP violation is almost certainly a lie, so that shouldn't matter.
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