waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Oban]

I don't believe RZ has once acknowledge or addressed to the consumers of his products,  the "alleged breach of contract and infringment(s) of IP " It's always been "ED have refused to pay is for services rendered" , never actually addressing the elephant in the room. 

Where's the communications/leaked documents between RZ and Nick Grey asking why there's a delay, and how long the delay can be expected so that he can put plans in place to keep paying his 3rd part sub-contractors? 

Where's the communications/leaked documents between RZ's legal adviser to ED's legal advisor seeking clarification on what the delay is, and when can they expect to remunirated for services rendered as per their contractual obligations? 

If ED are in breach of contract, and Nick Grey just woke up one morning and said " Sod this, I'm not going to pay Razbam what we agreed upon, and own them, and keep the cash indefinately" then where's the "leaked documents to show that ED are the ones who broke the contract? 


Nick Grey doesn't escape severe criticism either, frankly he should take a long hard look at himself in the mirror, and ask himself " What could I have done better here" 

 

[Oban]

3 minutes ago, OhNoMyHookBroke said:

I think it's safe to say that you're also one of those people. 

I read what's on the first page, nothing has changed, nothing I say has any influence on the situation, one side has stuck to the same statement since the entire shyt show unfolded, and has never tried to sway its consumers. 

The other side has been on overdrive on social media, leaking documents and conversations in a blatant attempt to garner consumer sympathy...

I wonder which side is which?  

[OhNoMyHookBroke]

4 minutes ago, Oban said:

I don't believe RZ has once acknowledge or addressed to the consumers of his products,  the "alleged breach of contract and infringment(s) of IP " It's always been "ED have refused to pay is for services rendered" , never actually addressing the elephant in the room. 

Where's the communications/leaked documents between RZ and Nick Grey asking why there's a delay, and how long the delay can be expected so that he can put plans in place to keep paying his 3rd part sub-contractors? 

Where's the communications/leaked documents between RZ's legal adviser to ED's legal advisor seeking clarification on what the delay is, and when can they expect to remunirated for services rendered as per their contractual obligations? 

If ED are in breach of contract, and Nick Grey just woke up one morning and said " Sod this, I'm not going to pay Razbam what we agreed upon, and own them, and keep the cash indefinately" then where's the "leaked documents to show that ED are the ones who broke the contract? 


Nick Grey doesn't escape severe criticism either, frankly he should take a long hard look at himself in the mirror, and ask himself " What could I have done better here" 

 

You're pouring an unhealthy amount of emotion into something that probably doesn't even personally affect you 

[Oban]

13 minutes ago, OhNoMyHookBroke said:

You're pouring an unhealthy amount of emotion into something that probably doesn't even personally affect you 

LOL, like 99.9% of the forum members here? Does owning Razbam modules that no longer receive support, and would eventually stop working not count as personal? 

Or do you mean, it only matters if you're one of Ron's Subbies (Sub contractors) ? 
 

[Hammer1-1]

11 hours ago, Aapje said:

You aren't adding anything useful to the conversation anyway.

same can be said for yourself.  Only difference here is that Ive been here, done that, and you either dont want to admit to the truth...or you have a dog in this fight. Im wondering if you actually have a dog in this fight because there isnt any real excuse to act pretentious. 

3 hours ago, Oban said:

LOL, like 99.9% of the forum members here? Does owning Razbam modules that no longer receive support, and would eventually stop working not count as personal? 

Or do you mean, it only matters if you're one of Ron's Subbies (Sub contractors) ? 
 

Yeah I find it weird that me owning a licensed copy of a substantial chunk of Razbams abandonware (at this point) doesnt give me a right to be mad about it. 

[Aapje]

1 hour ago, Hammer1-1 said:

and you either dont want to admit to the truth...

Your bias is not the truth.

I understand that some people have felt betrayed in the past by having Ron abandon two projects for FSX, and now that the DCS modules are getting abandoned, they have the same feelings, and then connect the dots.

The problem is that it is not all analogous, because where previously Ron abandoned those two project at his own volition, he now did so because the actions by ED, which in turn are allegedly because of something that Ron did.

If we set aside the question of blame for the entire affair, and focus just on the decision to stop further development, then those who want to blame Ron for doing so, have to argue that he somehow has to keep paying his workers without any money coming in. This is obviously irrational, but clearly, a lot of people are just here to rage at Ron, not to look at what reasonable options the various parties actually had and have.

Edited Monday at 12:16 AM by Aapje

[Aapje]

10 hours ago, Cab said:

Maybe because it's difficult, if not impossible, to image ED going thru this for anything other than believing they have been wronged by RAZBAM.

But if you look at Ron's behavior, then he clearly doesn't believe that ED is wronged to the extent they claim, or Ron would have acquiesced to the demands.

If you want to be objective, you can't look at ED's behavior and then conclude that their beliefs must be right, and then look at Ron behavior and then conclude that his beliefs are wrong.

[Aapje]

10 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Now you are just making stuff up. There is absolutely no evidence that Razbam were ever authorised to make anything for MCS.

I never actually said that they did make something else for MCS. I said that if they did, ED could have chosen to withhold those payments and not the DCS payments.

You misread what I wrote.

10 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

It seems that ED offered an MCS contract, as a way forward which would put ED's IP back under their control, but Razbam have refused to sign.

That is indeed what is written in the allegedly leaked letter of demand, but you left out that this letter also describes a fine that is to be levied on Razbam (but not the amount).

10 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Since it is self-evident by now that you have nothing useful to this discussion, but are instead filling it up with whatever fantasy suits your agenda, I am adding you to my forum ignore list.

Always funny when people feel the need to publicly announce this. Lots of people exposing the nasty side of their personality in this thread.

[Kang]

I see that tensions are high with the overall accusations and the heated triple posts, but can we all please focus a little bit? A lot of you seem to get bogged down in the tedious minutiae and your respective interpretations of such and I feel that it is not doing the project any favour at all.

I firmly believe that the first act should play out in the same manner as a DCS reveal trailer. Hazy, teasing, with a hint of mystery that ends up unwarranted. Dark and gritty, going into the explosion of senses that establishes a former status quo, if you catch my drift.

Any opinions on that?

Edited Monday at 12:59 AM by Kang
Spelling error fixed

[Aapje]

9 hours ago, Horns said:

Your interpretation of EA being used as a marketing term is interesting to me as I always saw the EA label as making a product less attractive rather than more so.

It depends a lot on your perspective. If you compare selling a full-featured module vs a partially built one, then the former is obviously more attractive. However, making a full-featured module takes a lot more time than making a partial module, so waiting with sales until the module is done, means that the developers have to wait a lot longer before they earn money (and they may even run out of money needed to keep developing).

If you compare selling a partial module without promises of future improvements, versus selling a partial module with such promises, then I think that the EA-label does add value.

[Aapje]

5 hours ago, Oban said:

I don't believe RZ has once acknowledge or addressed to the consumers of his products,  the "alleged breach of contract and infringment(s) of IP " It's always been "ED have refused to pay is for services rendered" , never actually addressing the elephant in the room.

According to the allegedly leaked letter of demand, Razbam is not allowed to talk about this.

5 hours ago, Oban said:

Where's the communications/leaked documents between RZ and Nick Grey asking why there's a delay, and how long the delay can be expected so that he can put plans in place to keep paying his 3rd part sub-contractors? 

Where's the communications/leaked documents between RZ's legal adviser to ED's legal advisor seeking clarification on what the delay is, and when can they expect to remunirated for services rendered as per their contractual obligations?

How do you know that those chats/documents exist and that they contain the exact things that you expect them to say? You are making lots of assumptions here, and there is a pretty good chance that you are wrong about certain things.

5 hours ago, Oban said:

If ED are in breach of contract, and Nick Grey just woke up one morning and said " Sod this, I'm not going to pay Razbam what we agreed upon, and own them, and keep the cash indefinately" then where's the "leaked documents to show that ED are the ones who broke the contract?

The allegedly leaked letter of demand states that ED is withholding agreed payments, but that they are allowed to do so, under the terms of a contract that we don't have. We have no way to evaluate whether ED actually has the right to withhold payment and for what amount, and what amount they actually withheld.

If you look at one of my previous posts, then you can see that my argument is that ED could have waited with the withholding/fine until both parties had agreed on what fine was reasonable. And they could have chosen to accept a reduction to the fine to a level that is acceptable to Ron, which is clearly not the case now.

Even if ED is technically right that Razbam violated the contract, which may or may not be true, then there still is such a thing as handling things in a way that reduces the chance of disruptions and increases the chance of a good resolution for all parties.

5 hours ago, Oban said:

Nick Grey doesn't escape severe criticism either, frankly he should take a long hard look at himself in the mirror, and ask himself " What could I have done better here"

Exactly, that is my point. I strongly suspect that he didn't think through the consequences of his actions, and thought that Ron would accept the fine and things would continue as before, and there would be no impact to DCS customers.

It is hard to imagine that he would have made the same choices if he knew the consequences, but those consequences were not at all unlikely.

[Cab]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

But if you look at Ron's behavior, then he clearly doesn't believe that ED is wronged to the extent they claim, or Ron would have acquiesced to the demands.

If you want to be objective, you can't look at ED's behavior and then conclude that their beliefs must be right, and then look at Ron behavior and then conclude that his beliefs are wrong.

I’m not trying to be objective, I’m just calling it as I see it. But you don’t intuitively understand my point, and I’m not going to spend time arguing about it in a forum. This whole thread demonstrates that’s a waste of time. 

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

But if you look at Ron's behavior, then he clearly doesn't believe that ED is wronged to the extent they claim, or Ron would have acquiesced to the demands.

Except that you can look at Ron's past behavior and see that his beliefs were wrong pretty often. He's one of those people who will blame everyone but himself. It's never his fault, the way he tells it. Hence, what he believes is irrelevant, because he's been pretty clearly shown to be rather bullheaded in the past. There's a line between self confidence and stubbornness, and he's firmly on the latter side. A person with his personality won't acquiesce just because he's wrong, even if his lawyers tell him as much.

In fact, your dogged persistence in your accusations of bias, despite multiple people telling you, in great detail, why you're wrong, shows that this describes you, as well. You think you're being fair, but your bothsideism has another name: golden mean fallacy. What we've seen so far points to the truth not being somewhere in the middle in this case.

[Hammer1-1]

2 hours ago, Aapje said:

Your bias is not the truth.

I understand that some people have felt betrayed in the past by having Ron abandon two projects for FSX, and now that the DCS modules are getting abandoned, they have the same feelings, and then connect the dots.

The problem is that it is not all analogous, because where previously Ron abandoned those two project at his own volition, he now did so because the actions by ED, which in turn are allegedly because of something that Ron did.

If we set aside the question of blame for the entire affair, and focus just on the decision to stop further development, then those who want to blame Ron for doing so, have to argue that he somehow has to keep paying his workers without any money coming in. This is obviously irrational, but clearly, a lot of people are just here to rage at Ron, not to look at what reasonable options the various parties actually had and have.

yeah again my experiences that ARE TRUE mean little to you. Again, you arent interested in the truth. You cant bs everyone. Its not just about him abandoning his work, its him not supporting his work AND blaming his mistakes on everyone but himself.  Stop pretending like you care.

Edited Monday at 03:16 AM by Hammer1-1