UH-6 MOD / why so hard to fly

[CHPL]

 

[tobi]

OH-6 not UH-6 

[Blackhawk NC]

I attempted to fly this mod and it was impossible. I added curves to the controls, removed curves, trim, no trim..... couldn't fly it and looks VERY cool! Hope they work it out!

[KoN]

Did you try negative curves , -15 or so .  I haven't tried this yet , but going too when I get time .

Is it twitchy or slow to responding 

 

Edited May 20, 2024 by KoN

[CHPL]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb KoN:

Did you try negative curves , -15 or so .  I haven't tried this yet , but going too when I get time .

Is it twitchy or slow to responding 

 

 

Reducing the saturation on the Y axis is always preferred for cyclic and collective.
Because a helicopter does not have a fixed center position, etherizing is variable because of weight, altitude, speed, and so on.
You never know at which point of the curve you are at the moment  and how much this affects your control inputs. It is simply gambling using curses. 

[Mistermann]

12 hours ago, Blackhawk NC said:

I attempted to fly this mod and it was impossible. I added curves to the controls, removed curves, trim, no trim..... couldn't fly it and looks VERY cool! Hope they work it out!

Sorry to hear you're having difficulty with this incredible creation from Tobi and 8Ball.  All I can say is my multiplayer group has been loving this little helo since it released.  Is it challenging?  Yes.  But at the same time extremely rewarding once you've become familiar with the flight characteristics.  Personally, I don't think Tobi/8ball has to "work anything out" with this modification.  I'm sure they are working to improve many things, but based on my experience with my mates, it's far from "impossible" to fly.

If you're a video person, here are a couple of videos my buddy @Devil 505 put together.  Maybe these help - note the second video has adult language NSFW.  Hope you find yourself having a great time in the Cayuse soon.

 

[Slippa]

Have to agree with Mistermann. I love this little thing. I’m a long way off a skilled heli pilot but I can get this off the ground and ‘hang on to it’.

Check your inputs, there may still be some weird settings for rudder pedals and the like.

Edited May 21, 2024 by Slippa
typo

[Blackhawk NC]

I like the helo.... I'll keep at it. Maybe I can get the hang of it......

[Slippa]

I had a lot of trouble for a couple of days with it. I jumped in and hadn’t checked all the inputs thoroughly. Once I did it started making more sense.

I can’t hold a hover and wouldn’t trust taking passengers. I’d definitely be grounded if anyone of authority saw the way I hang on to it but you can have a world of sport in it .

[Devil 505]

On 5/20/2024 at 11:54 AM, CHPL said:

 

I would post on this forum for questions on the OH-6.  Everyone is collectively learning to fly her and discuss pointers there.  I have posted several videos on how I have learned to fly her.  Curves or no curves, she just takes practice.  I myself am not a curves guy, but once you get the old girl down, she is a BLAST to fly in VR.

 

[KoN]

Does the installation go into save games fold like the other mods . 

A-4 . 

[Mistermann]

10 minutes ago, KoN said:

Does the installation go into save games fold like the other mods . 

A-4 . 

Yes

[CHPL]

Just to be precise. 
I think it's outstanding and great, and I'm not criticizing the work done so far.
Of course, it can flow relatively well after a few adjustments and practice, but my Audi in Collyn Mac Ray Racyng can do so if I help it enough.

Anyone who can fly a Huey in DCS should be able to fly all the other modules without major problems. However, a little practice and adaptation of the pilot to the machine's special features are always necessary.
This is especially true for the Apache in DCS.

So please understand this as help and advice for those who find it difficult and who can cope better with some background knowledge and understanding of the underlying principles.

And I'm sure the developers are also interested in the most realistic FM possible, not in having done an excellent job in 3D and skins, and then the thing flies like a bathtub.

The FM of the OH-6 should allow hard ground maneuvers in and out of the ground effect similar to the Gazzell.
It should not restrict the pilot's freedom of movement with the helicopter as its extension.
But as I say in the video beforehand, it's not about the FM at all, it's just about making the bathtub fly for everyone. 
 

[KoN]

Will definitely be giving this a try . Can it carry weapons and personal. 

[Zentaos]

I find it a lot of fun to fly. There is always a challenge with OH-6/MD500/Hughes 369 flight modeling, because it is both stable and nimble. It's stable due to the lack of hydraulics and the fully articulated 4/5 bladed rotor. However, it is also very responsive and maneuverable. It's hard to simulate the nimbleness, and heavy, non-hydraulic controls at the same time. Most developers go for the nimble behavior. It's the same in MSFS and XP12.

 

I find it very squirely if you try and lift off with the controls far off center. I use a PFT Puma, non-centering control setup though. Use the control position indicator until you get the hang of it. Also, move the controls in smaller amounts, and much less often. 

 

Remember, the Huey is a utility ship. it's slow and sluggish in comparison. The Loach is a nimble scout. The same principles apply, but they fly very differently.

[Canada_Moose]

 

[Rifter]

3 hours ago, Zentaos said:

It's hard to simulate the nimbleness, and heavy, non-hydraulic controls at the same time. Most developers go for the nimble behavior. It's the same in MSFS and XP12.

True. At the moment curves for the cyclic have to act as surrogate for the characteristics of the non-boosted control system. In the present development state of this Mod every micro-movement on the cyclic is translated unfiltered into a helicopter reaction. Not even in a Robinson R22 fast and twitchy cyclic movements create an actual input on the rotor disk. Although being purely mechanical, the control linkage from the cyclic all the way to the rotor mast is long and has mass, friction and inertia (without even considering the additional manual friction setting options for the pilot or the trim system with its breakout forces and therefore both influencing control feeling further). The rotor system itself has mass and inertia and dampening effects. All of that counts into the control behaviour. That’s exactly the fine grinding beyond the pure mathematical flight model for which DCS products are famous for. That should also be the next development step for this amazing OH-6 Mod.

[One Eyed Ross]

Well, I don't even have 15 hours in the Huey yet, so this bird is a bit beyond me right now.  But, I can crash in a spectacular fashion.  It isn't the mods fault, but my lack of ability to fly it.

I am willing to put in the hours to make it happen, just haven't finished the Huey yet.  (I can almost land without it blowing up!)

 

[CHPL]

 

@One Eyed Ross
I am a former CFI-H
If you like, I can give you one or two hours of dual training that brings you a big step forward.

Just let me know. 

[One Eyed Ross]

While I would really enjoy that, with my internet provider I find it really difficult to do any server flying.  I'll get it, just have to spend the hours it takes to do it.  Learning curve and all that.

 

 

[Zentaos]

12 hours ago, One Eyed Ross said:

Well, I don't even have 15 hours in the Huey yet, so this bird is a bit beyond me right now

Keep at it, the same principals apply to both ships. They respond fairly realistically or us real world pilots would be all over it. There are some things that are off. Like how the huey fuselage is super twitchy to control inputs. The disk reacts on a delay to an input, then the fuselage reacts to the disk. It also enters into VRS way too easily, but the basic response to control inputs is pretty accurate. It's the same with the OH-6A. It's super twitchy, but I love how the yaw axis responds correctly to collective input. You have to be on the pedals and ahead of the aircraft. Anticipate how it will respond to a control input and move the other controls accordingly before the helicopter reacts. If you are waiting to make inputs based on what the ship is doing, you are behind the aircraft and in for a world of hurt...

[One Eyed Ross]

On 5/23/2024 at 8:55 AM, Zentaos said:

Keep at it, the same principals apply to both ships. They respond fairly realistically or us real world pilots would be all over it. There are some things that are off. Like how the huey fuselage is super twitchy to control inputs. The disk reacts on a delay to an input, then the fuselage reacts to the disk. It also enters into VRS way too easily, but the basic response to control inputs is pretty accurate. It's the same with the OH-6A. It's super twitchy, but I love how the yaw axis responds correctly to collective input. You have to be on the pedals and ahead of the aircraft. Anticipate how it will respond to a control input and move the other controls accordingly before the helicopter reacts. If you are waiting to make inputs based on what the ship is doing, you are behind the aircraft and in for a world of hurt...

Well, the 1.2 update on the OH-6 makes it a LOT easier to fly, and also getting more hours in also helped. 

[CommandT]

No matter what curves you have the behaviour is just off atm. 1.2 did bring significant improvements but it's still not possible to be super precise with it. I'm holding off on flying this before more FM improvements are made to make it more realistic. 

[tobi]

4 hours ago, CommandT said:

No matter what curves you have the behaviour is just off atm. 1.2 did bring significant improvements but it's still not possible to be super precise with it. I'm holding off on flying this before more FM improvements are made to make it more realistic. 

I recommend not to use curves. You should also check if there is a problem with double aassigned axis.

[Slippa]

I got caught up with the curves at first.

I think half my trouble was with bindings I didn't expect. It can be flown well as it is I think and I'm not the best pilot.

Nothing but love for it from me .