correct as-is If I reduce my radar sweep to 20 degrees, will the target pick me up?

[cptmrcalm]

Here's a good question.

 

 

If I reduce my radar sweep to 20 degrees, will the target pick me up on their radar warning receiver if they are outside of that sweep but still within the radar max coverage range? Its a technique I have been using that I've been told may not work.

I know that the radar is not a simple digital "off/on" system by its very nature. The beams will be a restriction to the radar movement and it will give off some omni radiation for sure. But the question still remains.

 

Have I just been lucky all this time? The enemy doesnt seem to react to me until I move the beams over them.

I use this technique in all of my videos but now I wonder...

 

 

Edited June 15, 2024 by cptmrcalm

[Mr_sukebe]

I don’t know the answer, but it’s a great question.  The best way to check would be to test with a friend

[Phantom711]

You are definitely putting less radar energy at that target, but there still might be some. If his RWR would still be triggered to show NAILS simply depends on his RWR system.

How well all that is simulated in DCS might be another story. As already suggested…try it out in MP.

Another question would be, what you actually intend to achieve with that technique? You can as well just press the „silent“ button (SIL) on the Radar DDI.

[cptmrcalm]

Absolutely. 

 

The technique is quite straight forward. Wait until you feel you can wait no more and move the radar beams over them- designate and fire and get out of the way.

 

The later you leave it, the less time they have.

 

Not always right to do so. But there are times when you feel confident they dont see you (or when you think they cant  ) and therefore, you leave them less time to react.

 

Yes, silent or even off will work - but if this does end up doing what I think it does - its one less operation to perform for when you go for the kill.

 

 

 

[Raisuli]

Yes and no.  Does that help?

Yes to a degree, no in general, unless they've gotten a lot better at managing RF transmission patterns since I went to radar school.  Since RF is still RF I suspect only as much as the antennas have gotten more sophisticated.

[Foka]

The real question is if AI aircrafts pick that up.
I'd say that 90% chance that players won't, but how it works for all-knowing IAs?

[Muchocracker]

It would pick up the side lobe radiation depending on the range. Whether that is actually modelled somebody needs to find out 

Edited June 16, 2024 by Muchocracker

[cptmrcalm]

Typical - not been able to get on for a few days to try this out.

I would have thought ED would have known. Interesting. I will try it out soon.

[Tenkom]

Is there a reason not to just silence the radar instead?

[cptmrcalm]

Yes mate. As above - its one less operation to perform for when you go for the kill.

 

It also eliminates the chances of forgetting to turn it back to operational!  

[Tenkom]

17 hours ago, cptmrcalm said:

Yes mate. As above - its one less operation to perform for when you go for the kill.

 

It also eliminates the chances of forgetting to turn it back to operational!  

I would argue that moving the beam is an operation which probably takes longer than hitting a button.

[cptmrcalm]

Oh god no. For starters, you dont even take your eyes off them.

Its literally part of the process of locking them up. Much better than looking down and away and then back up to find they've fired or turned away.

 

But then again, you're talking to a moron who has done this before - forgotten to turn on the radar!! most of you pro's probably wont have that problem! lol.

 

But yes, certainly a slicker operation and one less process to worry about.

Should be able to fly again soon. Had some computer problems and general life stuff getting in the way.

 

Ive noticed the buddyspike server is back up again after being offline for a much longer than usual. Hopefully be able to see.

[Cepheus76]

Another option is to silence the radar and use the "active" (I think it's called that) option when you want to look at the targets. The radar will do one complete sweep according to its settings and goes silent again.

That way you will have certainly minimum RF-transmissions, but, of course must still remember to turn the Radar on when you start the engagement in earnest

[Thamiel]

As I understand, long before you receive radar echos strong enough to be used for anything, the objects creating those echos are aware of being painted. There is a fitting analogy of a car driving at night with its headlights on. It can be detected from miles away and not just by a direct LOS to the headlights or the car but also by reflections of objects being illuminated along the road. Far more objects in the vicinity of the car are illuminated than actually recognized by the driver / receiving end.

[cptmrcalm]

Indeed yes. That may work - if you have a physical switch assigned to the silent mode too, that would help. Or a voice command. 

 

Whichever way you look at it though - your adding in an extra step. 

 

I may have to adapt that solution anyway if the way I have been doing things isnt actually working right. Which may well be the case.

 

We are talking split seconds I know, but I have been in plenty of situations whereby a second could have saved me. More times that I would like to admit.

 

Anyway - a fun experiment at the very worse.

 

 

[Muchocracker]

you're not really going to get anything out of this except for reducing your own situational awareness and ability to employ BVR weapons. I really don't see the point. 

[Tenkom]

1 hour ago, Muchocracker said:

you're not really going to get anything out of this except for reducing your own situational awareness and ability to employ BVR weapons. I really don't see the point. 

I'm assuming this is for situations where you know where an enemy is through other means like datalink or AWACS calls. Then there is absolutely value in not alerting the enemy to your presence until you are within missile range.

[cptmrcalm]

Well said Tenkom. Exactly. 

PVP is how I started. Threw myself right into the deep end. 

As you may imagine, I got "owned" a lot! Its a wonder I continued with constantly getting killed rapidly with every flight. I never even did single player missions.

But instead of giving up - I wanted to work out how I was getting killed so easily.

 

It always astonished me how some of these pilots where able to be such good "killers". Watching them, talking to them and learning helped me adapt and use techniques of my own.

This technique will catch out new pilots, but for hardcore pilots the technique works best when you have good picture and the enemy doesnt. 

 

So yes, absolutely is worth it.

 

Muchocracker's comment, with respect, surprised me. But then again, some people come to DCS with a different mindset and a different way of flying - perhaps against AI all of the time. (not that there is anything wrong with that. You fly to enjoy your way)

PVP in a cooperative environment such as the buddyspike servers is where you'll find you really learn how to fly and fight. If you watch my videos, you'll see that in nearly all of them I adopt this technique and have lots of successes with it. 

I have been away of late but my next few videos should be with the buddyspike servers again.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2024 by cptmrcalm

[cptmrcalm]

Well. I am happy to report that it does indeed work!

I can provide the video - but I wont have the other persons voice confirming it. Blade was my guinea pig and confirmed to me that it does indeed work.

Had the target out in front and kept the beams off him quite a way off and he reported nothing. Slaved the beams over him - he registered me and then I took them off.

 

Took a while for his system to register that I had "let him go" before his RWR went silent. Then tried keeping the beams just off him (ie., edge of beam close to his "brick") and he again reported nothing. 

 

This was around 15 miles off me - the point at which I would be considering whether or not to fire.

 

Can do more tests of course. Particularly at different angles to see - but I am happy enough.

 

Its always fun to do these things. For many late to the conversation, this may well be "old news" or something already known, but there you go. Hope it helps "yaw'l"...