fixed Huge SP performance degradation with 2.9.7.58923 and 2.9.6.58056 compared to DCS 2.9.5.55918

[Bounti30]

[Doughguy]

On 8/23/2024 at 5:09 PM, BIGNEWY said:

We are working on some improved LOD's for AH-64's that should help a little here. 

thanks

if its and LOD issue because of some unoptimized LOD models, the LOD slider should help right?

And optimizing models on your part.

[Glide]

I found a better way to turn on these stutters.  With my Crystal at 72hz, Smart Smoothing On, Resolution LOW, No quadviews, no turbo mode, no Nvidia Control panel, Game settings "low enough to always hit 72fps frame time with room to spare".  Then set the Max FPS slider to 70, and go for a solo in the MB339 on Caucasus.  Watch as the FPS jumps down to 36fps with massive stutters, then back up to a smooth 72fps.  Works every time.

[Glide]

As I was testing this, I discovered that I was still getting ground jitter even at 72fps.  I reinstalled OpenXR Toolkit, enabled Safe Mode, and restored defaults in the OXRTK menu.  No more jitter.  Can someone else test this?  Pls.

Edited August 25, 2024 by Glide

[Glide]

Once again, above tests OpenXRTK NOT in safe mode, Smart Smoothing OFF, Low Latency Ultra (lowest position errors), and set the Max FPS slider to 70, and you can actually see the position error (terrain ticks).  In other words, you can force OpenXR to miss a sync and send an old frame with the Max FPS slider.

Edited August 25, 2024 by Glide

[jef32]

On 8/23/2024 at 9:53 AM, Esac_mirmidon said:

I was having FPS spikes every six seconds in several own created missions with a lot of units, triggers, scripts loaded, radio commands, etc. 

Reading about renaming users fólder will help i opted for trying first renaming the scripts fólder inside users and......

Fixed!!!!

No more spikes on any mission. Then i recovered my usual scripts for simple radio and a pair more like The Way, and everything works like a charm.

 

Worth trying renaming scripts fólder and trying after or even the whole users folder, but you must know what to recover like control input, missions, script files, etc

This night I've just read this message above and I had the same issues than Esac-mirmidon and I believed that my computer wasn't powerful enough to assume my very heavily loaded missions that I created for myself. So I've tried ansd it's the miracle. No more fps spikes each 6 seconds. Thanks !

[Glide]

Final test on this issue, I put Quadviews back on after achieving no judder, and it was a chunky mess. 

Edit: I uninstalled Quadviews and OpenXRTK, and reran the above judder-less test, and it was chunky.  I reinstalled OpenXR Toolkit, enabled Safe Mode, Restored Defaults again, and no chunk. 

Uninstall Quadviews, install OpenXR Toolkit, enable Safe Mode, launch DCS in VR, call up the OpenxrTK menu, restore defaults, and fly. 

The same steps work for the civilian sim.  Haven't checked IL2. 

Edited August 26, 2024 by Glide

[Esac_mirmidon]

9 hours ago, jef32 said:

This night I've just read this message above and I had the same issues than Esac-mirmidon and I believed that my computer wasn't powerful enough to assume my very heavily loaded missions that I created for myself. So I've tried ansd it's the miracle. No more fps spikes each 6 seconds. Thanks !

Glad that fixed the issue also for you. Enjoy !!

[av8orDave]

Regarding unit counts: 

Yesterday I loaded a Retribution mission with the option for all friendly forces that aren’t tasked not spawning. This results in you and your wingman being the only two aircraft on the airbase. My FPS were a solid 72 (7950X, 4090, 64G DDR5, Quest 3).

I ran the same mission with all aircraft spawning, even those that are untasked. This results in you spawning onto an airfield surrounded by about 30 other helos. My FPS, same mission, were barely holding at 30 - 40 fps. 
 

To me it is obvious that something changed with the last update that is preventing DCS from handling any meaningful amount of units. How on earth would an eventual dynamic campaign work?

[A Hamburgler]

5 hours ago, av8orDave said:

Regarding unit counts: 

Yesterday I loaded a Retribution mission with the option for all friendly forces that aren’t tasked not spawning. This results in you and your wingman being the only two aircraft on the airbase. My FPS were a solid 72 (7950X, 4090, 64G DDR5, Quest 3).

I ran the same mission with all aircraft spawning, even those that are untasked. This results in you spawning onto an airfield surrounded by about 30 other helos. My FPS, same mission, were barely holding at 30 - 40 fps. 
 

To me it is obvious that something changed with the last update that is preventing DCS from handling any meaningful amount of units. How on earth would an eventual dynamic campaign work?

Interesting I may try that. I actually didn’t realize how many units DCS could actually handle pre 2.9.6. Damn near 1000 and now its like 100 or less. 

[Wiggo]

Both versions pretty much degraded performance. MT version was long not working in my old computer. Couple patches back it suddenly worked "yes wooow what an performance". then came hotfix, yes now i got even IR picture in my A-10A!  the hotfix of a hotfix or what ever the latest was -> back to non working mt (huge stuttering in graphics _when changing the views_ (i bet this is the one that keeps ppl annoyed). There is no graphic setting that would differ this. I think even the graphics have gone suddenly more or less "mosaic" dunno why, but clearly there has been somekind of a downgrade in performance, that was  already there. What did you remove?  Its hard to explain - well my friend said that "like you was playing that old st version and had its performance now but with the mt version". But hope you find whats going on.. OFC it can be that my computer is just getting too old for this stuff, but still, it was (DCS about week or two ago) 10+/10 (outcluding IR missing / bad picture in some pod / mavs / planes) but what comes to performance. I even put v-sync on believe it or not. Now its way back off. 

Edited August 26, 2024 by Wiggo

[Rajeper]

Indeed, the same thing happens to me. In external views it is impossible with the damn flickering.
I have tried several configurations but they do not reduce it.

Edited August 26, 2024 by Rajeper

[PawlaczGMD]

@BIGNEWY

Question about CPU utilization. I've noticed that DCS is using all 20 of my CPU cores. I am actually thermal throttling right now (I am getting better cooling tomorrow). I'm not sure if this is a new behavior, or related to current issues. But is it expected that DCS is using all cores? I was under the impression there are 2 threads. I have also noticed a performance improvement after replacing an i5 with an i7 a few days ago. This to me suggest that DCS is CPU-bound and is grabbing all available cores, which seems... off

[ryanimates]

Chiming in because I find this new performance issue so disastrous. Since the big update about a month ago, my frame rate during larger Campaign missions is about 25% what it used to be - and  I'm seeing Reflected say he's suddenly having this issue too. I struggled through a mission at a miserable frame rate, and have not opened DCS since.  It's not currently possible for me to play DCS, because, for me, single player missions are DCS. It's incredibly frustrating to be forced to stop playing in the middle of a campaign and not even seen an official acknowledgement, but I guess I'll just have to find something else to do.

[The_Nephilim]

Hey to those having an issue can you please post a screenshot of your settings and post your PC Specs.. just CPU, GPU RAM and VR soultion or not?

 

 

Edited August 27, 2024 by The_Nephilim

[Rene Coulon]

On 8/22/2024 at 11:24 PM, Pande4360 said:

The fps drop is only occur if you host yourself. The server itself can however lag due to the performance issue mentioned. Which would simply cause rubberbanding for the players or heavy desync.

Lots of units is also relative to server power. e.g. my dcs can run around 16 full air sqaudrons witth 16 full sam templates and around 60 ground units all fighting at once pre update and now it can only handle 10 air squadrons and 11 sams and 60 ground units with very stuttery result.

Hosting a dedicated server with the same cpu will cause no stuttering for players joining but the server has issues which causes rubberbanding.

 

This is exactly what I have seen, all the missions I could pre Mod run easily on my system, which doubles as a server I have had to reduce the Ground units and airborne AI by 50% + and still getting stutters

On 8/24/2024 at 12:22 PM, Pande4360 said:

Guy from retribution reported that if he sets the ground units to 10 per side, he could raise the aircraft count to 100v100 again.

I can do the same

[av8orDave]

3 hours ago, The_Nephilim said:

Hey to those having an issue can you please post a screenshot of your settings and post your PC Specs.. just CPU, GPU RAM and VR soultion or not?

 

 

 

You bet, but it 100% isn’t related to settings in my case, purely to AI unit count.

Ryzen 9 7950X, RTX 4090, 64GB DDR5, using Quest 3; settings as follows:

cockpit displays 1024

DLSS quality

sharpening .5

textures high

terrain textures high

vis range medium

shadows medium

water medium

clouds standard

civ traffic off

terrain object shadows I’ve tried default, flat, and off, no difference

forest vis 100

clutter / grass 0

forest details 1

scenery details .5

preload radius all the way up

Chimney smoke 0

LOD factor .5

Anisotropic 2

Global illum on

Vsync off

Pixel density 2 (quest pd set in meta app to default)

 

Now that I’ve punched all that in, exactly what value did that add? Does someone NOT having issues care to post evidence that they are using a mission with a reasonably high unit count and getting acceptable framerates and without microstutters?

Edited August 27, 2024 by av8orDave

[Rene Coulon]

9 minutes ago, av8orDave said:

You bet, but it 100% isn’t related to settings in my case, purely to AI unit count.

Ryzen 9 7950X, RTX 4090, 64GB DDR5, using Quest 3; settings as follows:

cockpit displays 1024

DLSS quality

sharpening .5

textures high

terrain textures high

vis range medium

shadows medium

water medium

clouds standard

civ traffic off

terrain object shadows I’ve tried default, flat, and off, no difference

forest vis 100

clutter / grass 0

forest details 1

scenery details .5

preload radius all the way up

Chimney smoke 0

LOD factor .5

Anisotropic 2

Global illum on

Vsync off

Pixel density 2 (quest pd set in meta app to default)

 

Now that I’ve punched all that in, exactly what value did that add? Does someone NOT having issues care to post evidence that they are using a mission with a reasonably high unit count and getting acceptable framerates and without microstutters?

 

I have spent days testing Missions, and agree, its 100 % related to the Ground unit count.

These are a summary of my tests results. NOTE, Prior to these updates the mission ran very well with the 1024 Ground units....and Prior to that and the even older version of DCS, with over 1200 Ground units.

 

AIRCRAFT            VEHICLES                 QUALITY  0 = BAD : 5 = GOOD  

131                            0                                 5

12                             1024                            0

131                            249                             5

131                            60                                3

12                              1213                            2

51                              1126                            0

51                              508                             2

51                              301                              3

51                              213                              4

51                              126                              5

 

In Summary, for my system and the same mission, had to cut 1000 Ground units to run it with the quality I could before the " Update"  !!

i7 8700K  2080Ti  64 GB    

Edited August 27, 2024 by Rene Coulon

[Glide]

2 hours ago, Rene Coulon said:

Prior to these updates the mission ran very well with the 1024 Ground units....and Prior to that and the even older version of DCS, with over 1200 Ground units.

Well, i think the new threading model is going to make missions with this number of units a thing of the past. 

[av8orDave]

39 minutes ago, Glide said:

Well, i think the new threading model is going to make missions with this number of units a thing of the past. 

Do you mean that you think the new threading model will make missions with high unit counts a thing of the past because it will kill performance, or that it will make low unit counts a thing of the past by improving performance?

I ask because my impression was that spreading the processing load across more threads would help performance. If the opposite happens, I honestly have no clue how the endless march toward better graphics, higher fidelity flight models, better AI, and eventually a dynamic campaign results in a playable game/simulation from a performance aspect.

[Rene Coulon]

7 minutes ago, av8orDave said:

Do you mean that you think the new threading model will make missions with high unit counts a thing of the past because it will kill performance, or that it will make low unit counts a thing of the past by improving performance?

I ask because my impression was that spreading the processing load across more threads would help performance. If the opposite happens, I honestly have no clue how the endless march toward better graphics, higher fidelity flight models, better AI, and eventually a dynamic campaign results in a playable game/simulation from a performance aspect.

Exactly, Improving DCS by going BACKWARDS !!! in the old single threads...I never saw this, only when speeding up time in the ME

[The_Nephilim]

4 hours ago, av8orDave said:

You bet, but it 100% isn’t related to settings in my case, purely to AI unit count.

Ryzen 9 7950X, RTX 4090, 64GB DDR5, using Quest 3; settings as follows:

cockpit displays 1024

DLSS quality

sharpening .5

textures high

terrain textures high

vis range medium

shadows medium

water medium

clouds standard

civ traffic off

terrain object shadows I’ve tried default, flat, and off, no difference

forest vis 100

clutter / grass 0

forest details 1

scenery details .5

preload radius all the way up

Chimney smoke 0

LOD factor .5

Anisotropic 2

Global illum on

Vsync off

Pixel density 2 (quest pd set in meta app to default)

 

Now that I’ve punched all that in, exactly what value did that add? Does someone NOT having issues care to post evidence that they are using a mission with a reasonably high unit count and getting acceptable framerates and without microstutters?

 

Well it was a bit of a curiosity and I am not saying this is a fix for these issues but I ran the mission posted here with settings much like yours and got stutters in the DCS FPS Counter, I then checked and put my Terrain on medium and it seemed to have went away and the mission was smooth again..

 

So have you tried running the mission posted here with the F18 on the carrier? I had similar issues last night with MP missions where in themission the Frametimes were high. I put the Terrain on medium and it all went away..

YMMV but give it a shot, cant hurt at this point but it fixed it for me

[Pande4360]

Am 26.8.2024 um 02:22 schrieb Glide:

Final test on this issue, I put Quadviews back on after achieving no judder, and it was a chunky mess. 

Edit: I uninstalled Quadviews and OpenXRTK, and reran the above judder-less test, and it was chunky.  I reinstalled OpenXR Toolkit, enabled Safe Mode, Restored Defaults again, and no chunk. 

Uninstall Quadviews, install OpenXR Toolkit, enable Safe Mode, launch DCS in VR, call up the OpenxrTK menu, restore defaults, and fly. 

The same steps work for the civilian sim.  Haven't checked IL2. 

 

I did remove quadviews and it got better but performance is still nowhere near how it used to be. OVerall that is to be expected as quadviews consumes additional CPU power. But if your cpu is already struggling to begin with quadviews will make it worse. I wouldnt say quadviews is by any means the cause of this whole issue hence, it´s just not usable due to the performance issues present already.

Edited August 27, 2024 by Pande4360

[Glide]

Well, as the AI improves, it's going to need more resources, so yes, it's getting bigger and better.

16 minutes ago, Pande4360 said:

I wouldnt say quadviews is by any means the cause of this whole issue hence, it´s just not usable due to the performance issues present already.

Quadviews currently breaks OpenXR (in this sim and others) and it's no longer supported.  Neither is the OpenXR Toolkit supported, as the dev indicated.  However, it's a problem now because just removing Quadviews does not fix the issue.  You must remove it, restore defaults in OpenXR in Safe Mode, then disable the toolkit and remove it. 

DCS cannot be tangled up with that code anymore.  DCS works much better without it now.  I have my Crystal at full resolution with GPU bound at around 60fps.  As long as it's smooth, that frame rate is just fine for me. 

[Pande4360]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Glide:

Well, as the AI improves, it's going to need more resources, so yes, it's getting bigger and better.

Quadviews currently breaks OpenXR (in this sim and others) and it's no longer supported.  Neither is the OpenXR Toolkit supported, as the dev indicated.  However, it's a problem now because just removing Quadviews does not fix the issue.  You must remove it, restore defaults in OpenXR in Safe Mode, then disable the toolkit and remove it. 

DCS cannot be tangled up with that code anymore.  DCS works much better without it now.  I have my Crystal at full resolution with GPU bound at around 60fps.  As long as it's smooth, that frame rate is just fine for me. 

yeah dunno about crystal, still works fine with quest