No campaign bug - Spotting kills it for me

[Lt_Jaeger]

I started with the campaign and it turns out as I expected, great work

 

BUT 

The campaign get spoiled for me by the current spotting system in DCS. E.g. the first mission Butterfly setup. I lose tally already at the cut and usually never regaining it. If I do, by cheating and peaking at the F10 map, everything is fine again, because close in, I can see the plane and if I lose sight it's due a mistake I made. Not sure if I want to press on, because it kills the immersion. 

Wish we would get the spotting back we once had, worked great in the F-14 campaigns. 

 

Like I said, nothing wrong with the campaign, just venting my frustration. 

Hope not many of you guys are effected, but this is the first time in really hampered by a high res vr headset. Bummer

[Reflected]

I just use dot icons. Then it’s no problem. 

[Gretsch_Man]

On 8/19/2024 at 7:54 PM, Reflected said:

I just use dot icons. Then it’s no problem. 

Speaking of which, I noticed that at the start of each mission, various label settings are allowed, for example SYMBOL ONLY. However, once the actual training mission files are loaded, only the DOT NEUTRAL label can be activated. Was that done on purpose?

[Reflected]

51 minutes ago, Gretsch_Man said:

Speaking of which, I noticed that at the start of each mission, various label settings are allowed, for example SYMBOL ONLY. However, once the actual training mission files are loaded, only the DOT NEUTRAL label can be activated. Was that done on purpose?

No. It’s a DCS bug. ED is aware

[Smokin1469]

There are a lot of variables, but in my experience getting a tally-ho and an ID in DCS is way too hard without some sort of aid.  I use a VR headset and the visual acuity is pretty poor.  Solution one is to use the spotting dots.  This can give some wildly inaccurate long-range tally-hos though.  For example, with the dots on, you can get a tally-ho of an F-86 at 8 miles.  I was only reliably able to get a tally ho on an F-16 size target at 5-6 miles IRL.  But, even with the dots on, within visual range (WVR) performance is still lacking.  Within 3 miles, the dots work pretty good for gaining/maintaining sight, but the ID is unrealistically hard in my opinion.  Solution two is to fly with the little carets on.  This still makes the BVR tally-ho and ID too easy, but I'm prioritizing the WVR performance and I've found that using the dots and carets WVR is the best compromise between a sim and real life.  Use that for what it's worth.

I was bummed when I found out the carets are disabled in the training missions.  I'm glad it's a bug and not something Reflected did on purpose!

[Reflected]

If you load the mission stages srparately outside of the campaign, you’ll have all the icons

[PawlaczGMD]

Spotting is very dependent on your resolution and VR hardware. For me in VR, turning off AA helps a lot with spotting. I don't really like the current spotting dot system. But in here there is no shame in using dot icons imho.

[MichaelJWP15]

Now a lot of us are using foveated rendering / quadviews, that has some weird effects, where you can see aircraft when you look at them, look to the side and they disappear because they are no longer in the high resolution render area.

It's all a compromise though, and I would never go back to a flat screen as VR is so much more immersive. So I turn the dots on.

[Wavehopper]

Use MSAA (TAA and DLAA edit out the dots).  Also leave the LOD thingy at 1.0, any lower and planes will physically disappear at certain ranges.  I had Mig 23's magic out of existence at 1/2 mile with the LOD slider at 0.4.

[Gunfreak]

Haven't tested MIG killers yet(but naturally I have bought it) but in general DCS has terrible medium range spotting, not sure exactly what DCS does to make this happen. But like details get darkened and blend into the environment. It's extremely noticeable when flying WW2, especially since you can easily compare to other ww2 sims. 

A very typical example would be the yellow noses of the German fighters. The yellow colour gets grayed out and only at very close range can we clearly see the yellow. In the two other ww2 sims I fly. Those yellow noses are clear and easy to spot even at some distance. Much like first hand accounts describe. So it's something DCS does that just removes details as relatively close range. Even telling the difference between the rounded wings of a Spitfire and square wings of the German aircraft. Are far harder than it should be.

[Phantom12]

Been a DCS problem for a long time and they can never seem to get it quite right. Part of the problem is still how easy it is to spot things 15-20NM away yet at 2NM aircraft disappear.

The only real answers are to lower resolution and use very little AA. If you're in VR I had some success with tips about scan technique and consciously letting your eyes focus on terrain or clouds in the distance rather than up close on the fuzz & scratches on the canopy. Still in anything after the 2v2 scenario my main problem pretty much became keeping track of everyone/anyone well enough to make myself useful in those engagements. Very challenging with that many airplanes around.

[MichaelJWP15]

Agree with that, it's one of the main reasons why I mainly stick to ground attack in DCS, even though I have always liked the challenge of A2A combat.

I am really into this amazing F4 module though and love Reflected's meticulous work so I am giving this campaign a serious try. Will take me a while though as my real life takes up too much time!

Edited August 28, 2024 by MichaelJWP15

[Koziolek]

On 8/23/2024 at 2:50 AM, Reflected said:

If you load the mission stages srparately outside of the campaign, you’ll have all the icons

Yes, but only for the first time. If l want to practice more and use F10 for doing the mission again it reverts to the dot only

[Reflected]

5 hours ago, Koziolek said:

Yes, but only for the first time. If l want to practice more and use F10 for doing the mission again it reverts to the dot only

@[ED]Ben any updates on this please? Icon settings ignored when a mission is loaded by a trigger.

Edited August 29, 2024 by Reflected

[joker62]

On 8/29/2024 at 2:11 AM, Reflected said:

any updates on this please? Icon settings ignored when a mission is loaded by a trigger.

Thanks for asking ED. Due to limitations of a monitor, the "size" of the planes reproduced in the monitor, the not always optimal configurations of contrast, brightness etc., old age (I'm 62 and my eyesight is definitely decreasing), now even for me activating "labels" in certain combat contexts has become necessary. I hope ED solve it soon.

And yes, I fly your missions many times separately from the campaign, they are an irreplaceable training. Thanks again.

[Gretsch_Man]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:11 AM, Reflected said:

@[ED]Ben any updates on this please? Icon settings ignored when a mission is loaded by a trigger.

 

I was hoping that this will be fixed with today's update. Unfortunately, this has not been the case. 

[Reflected]

1 hour ago, Gretsch_Man said:

I was hoping that this will be fixed with today's update. Unfortunately, this has not been the case. 

Have you asked ED about this? I think these would be fixed much faster if everyone asked ED directly, not through me, because then I'm the only one bumping my own report.

[Gretsch_Man]

1 hour ago, Reflected said:

Have you asked ED about this? I think these would be fixed much faster if everyone asked ED directly, not through me, because then I'm the only one bumping my own report.

I just did.

Let's hope ED does something about it.

[Reflected]

Thanks! I also bumped my own report.

[Koziolek]

I am going through this campaign again and noticed one thing. Sometimes the labels work. On event 2 the first two parts (after the beginning) - pure pursuit and lag pursuit have no labels but on the next one the lag roll there was a chevron. Next one the agg was without the labels at all and the chevron was back on return flight. On the next event, 1 vs 1 with F86 the was a chevron present on all parts. Was the triggering any different on this parts where the chevron was present? And if not what can make this difference?

[Reflected]

2 hours ago, Koziolek said:

I am going through this campaign again and noticed one thing. Sometimes the labels work. On event 2 the first two parts (after the beginning) - pure pursuit and lag pursuit have no labels but on the next one the lag roll there was a chevron. Next one the agg was without the labels at all and the chevron was back on return flight. On the next event, 1 vs 1 with F86 the was a chevron present on all parts. Was the triggering any different on this parts where the chevron was present? And if not what can make this difference?

Known dcs bug, see the orher threads about it. 

[Koziolek]

8 hours ago, Reflected said:

Known dcs bug, see the orher threads about it. 

Yes I read about it. I was just wondering why does it not happen always? If all parts of mission are triggered the same way the labels should be missing every time.

[Klunker]

On 8/22/2024 at 5:50 PM, Reflected said:

If you load the mission stages srparately outside of the campaign, you’ll have all the icons

Just started and like campaign design and realism, but also having problems seeing target without labels.  Only have progressed through the first 1v1 with F86 and had to restart several times as a result of lost sight during engagements. I ended up coming back separately due to lost sight and low fuel. When I lose sight, I like to go full labels to reacquire and then dumb down to just a dot.  If the missions can be loaded separately as you suggest to gain full labels, I will use that as a way to complete the campaign. How do I do that?

[Reflected]

You can open the files separately, just navigate to DCS/ mods/campaigns/ mig killers

 

I thought ED already fixed the label bug though. It's best if you send them a reminder

[Koziolek]

On 4/18/2025 at 4:29 AM, Reflected said:

I thought ED already fixed the label bug though. It's best if you send them a reminder

It looks like they did. I flew the mission 2 again yesterday and had labels on all parts of it.