Daft question about landing on runways

[Indianajon]

So..... I have been experimenting with various aircraft landing on runways and doing both Navy and Air Force landing styles. While i can achieve both in nearly all aircraft, the hornet refuses to play.

Is it possible to land a hornet gently? Or does the configuration of the landing gear make it always land fairly hard?

I know this is a pointless question, I'm just intrigued.

[razo+r]

You can land it gently, but from my experience it takes a bit more effort to flare it properly. The trailing gear actually should make landings softer.

[idenwen]

For how much, or less, vertical velocity are you aiming on touchdown?

-400 is quite doable even with a really sloppy approach.

null

[Tenkom]

Hornet is the easiest plane in the game to land smoothly.

If you're struggling watch this clip.
I think the secret is to remember that elevator is ONLY for keeping the AoA and the thrust is for controlling descent rate.

[Raisuli]

 

6 minutes ago, Tenkom said:

I think the secret is to remember that elevator is ONLY for keeping the AoA and the thrust is for controlling descent rate.

The hornet is one of those aircraft you have to fly all the way into the ground.  If you chop the throttle the ground accelerates up to meet you very, very fast.

[Tenkom]

1 minute ago, Raisuli said:

 

The hornet is one of those aircraft you have to fly all the way into the ground.  If you chop the throttle the ground accelerates up to meet you very, very fast.

Yeah. The engines have very quick reaction time too so if you cut early you will have problems. I cut when the wheels touch down.

[Nealius]

The flare is the same as in any other aircraft, technique is just different. No pitch input, just add a bit of power to reduce your decent rate. This requires aiming a bit before your intended touchdown point.

[bfr]

I'd swear it also got a little more tricky to 'grease it' when they did the update a few months back to make the gear a little less indestructible, but it is indeed very possible to do a flared landing. I'd say there is only the F-15 that is easier to put down on the deck gracefully.

I still haven't mastered landing the Phantom in a fashion that doesn't dislodge any fillings from your teeth though.

[TheFreshPrince]

You can land it gently when you aim the velocity vector at the runway at an angle of less than 3° below the horizon. It just takes much more time and distance for the landing approach and a clear path. Flaring the thing just before landing is also a thing. But you're gonna go down instantly afterwards, so timing is very difficult. 

[Tenkom]

1 hour ago, TheFreshPrince said:

You can land it gently when you aim the velocity vector at the runway at an angle of less than 3° below the horizon. It just takes much more time and distance for the landing approach and a clear path. Flaring the thing just before landing is also a thing. But you're gonna go down instantly afterwards, so timing is very difficult. 

Like Nealius said above you use the throttle to flare. Or you can use auto-throttle. Then you can flare with the stick.

[equinox137]

you don't flare a Hornet

[razo+r]

9 minutes ago, equinox137 said:

you don't flare a Hornet

You do flare a Hornet if you are not flying it for the US military.

[equinox137]

LOL....i'll give you that

[N8AHbl4]

5 часов назад, equinox137 сказал:

you don't flare a Hornet

You do if you want to take some bombs back 

[Nealius]

The only absolute "you don't flare a Hornet" is at the boat. 

[equinox137]

ok, I am mistaken

[Vox]

In the NATOPS (III-7-27)

"Using a flared minimum descent rate landing, the WOW switch may not actuate immediately. In this case, the throttles cannot be reduced to ground idle and may be inadvertently left in the flight idle position, thereby reducing the deceleration rate and extending the length of the landing rollout."

[rob10]

1 hour ago, Vox said:

In the NATOPS (III-7-27)

"Using a flared minimum descent rate landing, the WOW switch may not actuate immediately. In this case, the throttles cannot be reduced to ground idle and may be inadvertently left in the flight idle position, thereby reducing the deceleration rate and extending the length of the landing rollout."

Interesting.  I don't land on land very often but occasionally I have had it where NWS didn't immediately activate and that's likely why.  Not deliberately flaring, but maybe getting the same effect inadvertently.  Thanks!

[Nealius]

Board out and full aft stick typically resolves that problem, but if landing rollout is a concern you’re not going to be flaring anyway. 

[Vox]

Also in NATOPS (same page)

"Commanding full aft stick deflection with the ejection seat within 1.75 inches of the top limit can cause the lower ejection handle to snag on the air-to-air weapon select switch and result in inadvertent ejection. In particular, during stabilator braking after a full stop landing the control stick should be pulled back only the minimum required distance to command full stabilator authority. Inadvertent ejections have occurred after stabilator braking when the pilot has released full aft stick."

[Nealius]

Non-issue in DCS; not that it matters as I already stated you wouldn't even be doing that if landing roll distance is a concern, since you would do the standard "Navy plop" as I like to call it. 

Those citations still have not said anything about flared landings being prohibited. Now if we're going to be pedantic about full-aft stick versus full-aft deflection, sure.

Edited October 3, 2024 by Nealius

[Phantom711]

@Vox

Those notes/warnings/cautions do not imply that one is not supposed to flare. 
The NATOPS also states a maximum landing weight of 39000lbs for a FLARED landing as opposed to the 34000lbs limit one has for landings/traps on the boat.

[maxTRX]

I posted this response a while back in a related thread (bugs section).  Is this still a thing?   I can't test it myself at the moment.

QUOTE: "Well now you can not raise the nose up any more by pulling on the stick.  As soon as the mains hit the runway the horizontal stabs go full 24' NU but the only effect you get is a slightly extended nose wheel strut. During final approach on speed, the stabs are roughly ~ 15 NU and if the stabs go suddenly to 24' after touchdown (around 130, 140 kts) ... the results would definitely be noticeable in RW.  In the current build the stabs ease up to ~15 NU when slowing through 100kts. From what I understand we should be able to gradually pull on the stick after touchdown, going to full up below 100kts. That's with the nose wheel on the ground all the time. The roll / rudder interconnect disconnects at a 100kts also."

[AMEDooley]

On 10/3/2024 at 8:21 AM, Phantom711 said:

@Vox

Those notes/warnings/cautions do not imply that one is not supposed to flare. 
The NATOPS also states a maximum landing weight of 39000lbs for a FLARED landing as opposed to the 34000lbs limit one has for landings/traps on the boat.

You are correct, it is not a note/caution/ warning. Those would be separated from the text with the associated labeling above it (such as the accidental ejection warning). And while it doesn’t imply you cannot flare, it is telling you the preferred or recommended procedure. There are sometimes that flaring would be a better option and so you would need to know about not being able to go into ground idle. But the Hornet should, under normal circumstances, not flare. I do know on Super Hornets they did start aero breaking as I was leaving Active Duty. And at the end of the day, it’s all about what ever the service flying it wants to do. I would say, that because of the “backwards” nature of the Hornet stick and throttle during landing, it makes flaring require more finesse and forethought.

[DCSUNIVER]

It’s possible to land it gently, but from my experience, getting the flare right takes a bit more effort than expected. It’s not a 'daft question' at all—landing smoothly can be tricky, especially when trying to perfect the technique on certain runways.

 

 _Tutuapp

Edited November 7, 2024 by DCSUNIVER