Into the Jungle - Next Gen

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

 

I’m just thinking out load here so bear with me. I just want to document some ideas while they are fresh.

I vaguely remember seeing some discussions of problems others were having with the DCS event system.

I *think* one of the issues is that when a client dies, DCS swaps the client object into a static dead aircraft object.

It is possible that by the time the event code executes that has happened and the initiator is not a Client object but now a static. And the static would not have the .getPlayerName method implemented. This bait and switch was causing all kinds of problems. Event initiators were not always the object you were expecting.

That sounds a lot like this case because the error in the log was:

2025-02-12 03:43:17.517 ERROR   SCRIPTING (Main): Error while handling event [string "--[[ 250114 CSAR 1.9.2 ..."]:496: attempt to call method 'getPlayerName' (a nil value)

So I take that to mean the initiator object did NOT have the getPlayerName method implemented as expected by the time it reached the event handler. Possibly because the initiator object had already been swapped out to a static wreckage object.

Looking at the recent Moose git hub fix diff that I suspected might be related to the same type of problem I noticed:

{See image below}

Note the clause they added. Looks to me they added a check to make sure that unit actually had the “.GetPlayerName” method implemented. (i.e. The method reference was nil or not.)

I could not find the exact discussion I’m remembering, but here is a reference that looks like it has some similar issues and work-arounds.

Event Handling Problems

NOTE: When you test this, make sure you are testing against an actual Dedicated Server and not the server you can run from the client. I have seen those not perform exactly the same in all cases. (Thanks DCS.)

So to some extend ChatGPT may have been referring to this as “timing issues” sometimes being involved in errors like this. So in some cases the initiator object might still be a client object, or might have already been switched to a static dead aircraft wreckage object by the time the event handler code executes.

Or I could be full of it, but something to consider. 

$0.02.

 

Edited February 13 by [HOUNDS] CptTrips

[PhartyMiasma]

13 hours ago, Mistermann said:

Welcome to the party.

I posted a video a few pages back showing the "slideshow" on my machine.  The fix released in v2.006 seemed to reduce the problem for many.  If you're not running that version, I'd encourage you to download it.

I am pretty sure every group has a truck.  That's the intent.  If a group is missing one, I need to fix that. 

The trucks play a very important role in groups - they replenish ammo.  Without trucks, the groups run out of ammo and you're left with a neutered environment with no one shooting at you.  We experienced this very early on in the creation of this mission and opted to add supply trucks to every group.

So what causes the slideshow???  My theory here is this special type of truck (I listed them all out a few pages back) causes some sort of core DCS housekeeping to occur when damaged.  I suspect whatever housekeeping that's happening is poorly optimized and probably 20+ years old.  We simply don't notice any lag whatsoever in a Dedicated server environment.  That's likely because the calculations are happening on the server rather than our client machines.

Anyone removing the Ural's from groups and map placements risks breaking the mission, so just be aware of what purpose those trucks serve - it is far more than just a target.

 

Thanks!

Yes, the slidehow in your clip is what we see.  I re-installed all the mods etc once I saw that version was out to see if it made any difference, I am not sure it makes enough of a difference to notice for us (others may get a different experience).

I completely agree with your assessment, that was our conclusion too.  I understand that we may break the mission file by messing with it but wanted to see if there was a way of determining which bit of DCS was having a wibble.  If that can be pinned down then I'd raise a bug report to ED (and if there is a workaround then feedback to you guys).

I feel very confident in saying it is not the mission, graphics settings, network or the hardware, and that in fact it is indeed the core DCS code relating to trucks somewhere.

Mission Editor is a new thing to me so I will have to fumble about for a bit but that's my problem.  I don't know if the truck is spamming the units to ask if they need resupply or if the units use a round of ammo and then call the local truck (or both!).

Things I am going to try out:
Can I remove the truck from a group, initiate contact with the group to create an ammo resupply requirement, fly off and then spawn a truck back in to that group at a certain timepoint. (is it that creating an array of troops that need resupply and having to add new troops to that array one after the other and also calling the truck at the same time an issue).
There is a radius for resupply for the truck, what happens if only one unit is in that radius and the other are just outside to the extent that when the truck moves to the unit they are then within its radius. (perhaps the initiation of a resupply task for just one troop is enough to cause a problem or perhaps once that task has been started adding more troops is no problem).
What happens if the truck is well away from the group and I attack it first. (is it that a truck starting to move whether from taking fire, avoiding fire or starting a resupply task)
If I on SP can manage through the initial stutter it never happens again, I want to confirm and investigate that, cos that is plain weird!

I will report back on miy findings...

...in the meantime, carry on.

[Mistermann]

7 hours ago, [HOUNDS] CptTrips said:

I *think* one of the issues is that when a client dies, DCS swaps the client object into a static dead aircraft object.

It is possible that by the time the event code executes that has happened and the initiator is not a Client object but now a static. And the static would not have the .getPlayerName method implemented. This bait and switch was causing all kinds of problems. Event initiators were not always the object you were expecting.

That sounds a lot like this case because the error in the log was:

2025-02-12 03:43:17.517 ERROR   SCRIPTING (Main): Error while handling event [string "--[[ 250114 CSAR 1.9.2 ..."]:496: attempt to call method 'getPlayerName' (a nil value)

So I take that to mean the initiator object did NOT have the getPlayerName method implemented as expected by the time it reached the event handler. Possibly because the initiator object had already been swapped out to a static wreckage object.

That error is from the CSAR script.  I thought you said you disabled it and still had the game crash.  Disabling CSAR like I showed in a prior post won't even load the CSAR script.  Something isn't adding up to me here.

Regardless, line 496 of that script is

Based on the log message, it does appear that's an unexpected NIL value.  WHY?  I have no idea.  And why it blows up for you and not me is a very troubling issue for me to reconcile.  This is why I lean into the "what's different in your setup/environment from mine" angle.  Are you the only one experiencing this crash or are there other's out there with it too?  There are lots of root cause factors to evaluate here before changing script code that's working - IMHO.

Edited February 13 by Mistermann

[Mistermann]

29 minutes ago, PhartyMiasma said:

Thanks!

Yes, the slidehow in your clip is what we see.  I re-installed all the mods etc once I saw that version was out to see if it made any difference, I am not sure it makes enough of a difference to notice for us (others may get a different experience).

I completely agree with your assessment, that was our conclusion too.  I understand that we may break the mission file by messing with it but wanted to see if there was a way of determining which bit of DCS was having a wibble.  If that can be pinned down then I'd raise a bug report to ED (and if there is a workaround then feedback to you guys).

I feel very confident in saying it is not the mission, graphics settings, network or the hardware, and that in fact it is indeed the core DCS code relating to trucks somewhere.

Mission Editor is a new thing to me so I will have to fumble about for a bit but that's my problem.  I don't know if the truck is spamming the units to ask if they need resupply or if the units use a round of ammo and then call the local truck (or both!).

Things I am going to try out:
Can I remove the truck from a group, initiate contact with the group to create an ammo resupply requirement, fly off and then spawn a truck back in to that group at a certain timepoint. (is it that creating an array of troops that need resupply and having to add new troops to that array one after the other and also calling the truck at the same time an issue).
There is a radius for resupply for the truck, what happens if only one unit is in that radius and the other are just outside to the extent that when the truck moves to the unit they are then within its radius. (perhaps the initiation of a resupply task for just one troop is enough to cause a problem or perhaps once that task has been started adding more troops is no problem).
What happens if the truck is well away from the group and I attack it first. (is it that a truck starting to move whether from taking fire, avoiding fire or starting a resupply task)
If I on SP can manage through the initial stutter it never happens again, I want to confirm and investigate that, cos that is plain weird!

I will report back on miy findings...

...in the meantime, carry on.

That's a LOT of effort on your part to further verify the resupply units have issues.  Plus based on my decades of experience with ED, any bug report on this goes into a black hole.  Personally, I wouldn't hold my breath that this issue is ever addressed.  I've personally wasted FAR too many hours documenting and pointing out issues for them over the years that simply go unacknowledged and unaddressed.  

I'd say if you're good without resupply, kill the urals in the ME and call it a day.  Have fun with what works for you!

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

2 hours ago, Mistermann said:

That error is from the CSAR script.  I thought you said you disabled it and still had the game crash.  Disabling CSAR like I showed in a prior post won't even load the CSAR script.  Something isn't adding up to me here.

Regardless, line 496 of that script is

Based on the log message, it does appear that's an unexpected NIL value.  WHY?  I have no idea.  And why it blows up for you and not me is a very troubling issue for me to reconcile.  This is why I lean into the "what's different in your setup/environment from mine" angle.  Are you the only one experiencing this crash or are there other's out there with it too?  There are lots of root cause factors to evaluate here before changing script code that's working - IMHO.

That was the error from the original log I posted before I disabled CSAR. I've put it back to the original mission now.  Seems logical to get that working first before changing more variables.  

Others hitting my server were experiencing the crash so that argues against it being my local game machine.

I realized I neglected to add StopGapGUI. Lua to hooks.  So I'll try that this morning as well as turn off pure scripts.  Don't see how those would effect this problem, but first step is to get a proper test environment established.

If that still doesn't help, then next logical step would be to see if you hitting my server can repro the behavior.

I dunno why others haven't seen it.  Maybe I just set it up wrong.  Still verifying that. 

I do remember a lot of the event problems I heard rumor of seemed to coincide with the versions since they added Dynamic spawn.  That's been fairly recent.  If it's "timing related" as ChatGPT suggests, my machines might be slight faster or slightly slower, just enough to hit the unfortunate state.  But, one step at a time.

It's not vital I get this working.  No worries.  I just hate mysteries.  

Cheers.

 

[Devil 505]

Kandy is getting ready to push out the latest updated version of ITJ.  I created a video below with a link to where to download the new AI boats in the video description.  This link will also be added to the front-page of this forum when Kandy updates it.  If I missed any instruction in the video or you have questions, please let me know. 

I cannot stress enough, only download what I said in the video.  The entire mod is 3 gigs, and it is an older mod.  From what people are saying, there are separate parts of the mod that are outdated and do not work anymore.  They could conflict with ITJ.  We have done a lot of testing with the 3 AI boats, and they work/look great in the mission.  We feel it will bring another level of authenticity to the map without any performance hit. Enjoy and feel free to comment.

 

[Devil 505]

Been meaning to shoot this video for a while.  Those of you who struggle or want to know how we are using the radios in all aircraft in ITJ, this is for you.  I am by far no expert nor a real pilot, but we love keeping it real and flying with realistic radios.  The video will teach you how to communicate in SRS and help you trouble shoot in each aircraft if you are not hearing anything. This is not an SRS install/setup video.  It's all about operating the radios in cockpit with SRS.  

Feel free to ask questions if you are struggling.  I guarantee the three of us who fly together have probably encountered the same issues at some point in time with comms in DCS.  Hope this helps those who need it.

 

[DCoffey]

On 1/20/2025 at 4:17 PM, Devil 505 said:

 

Cool B-52 shot at the end of the video from the jeep view.

how are you driving around in a jeep?

[Tonker]

Cheers for those @Devil 505, those look really useful guides. Away from home with work for a while, but looking forward to reading repsonses when the new version drops and to getting stuck in myself ASAP

[Mistermann]

1 hour ago, DCoffey said:

how are you driving around in a jeep?

Combined Arms

[Devil 505]

4 hours ago, DCoffey said:

how are you driving around in a jeep?

As Kandy stated, combined arms. You have to be in spectator mode if you have CA and then go to the F-10 map and locate the jeep with an E in the middle.  There is a button on the F-10 map that lets you take control of it.  From there, you would need to bind your keys for combined arms to drive the jeep.

[Mistermann]

February 15, 2025 - New Release Announcement

We are happy to announce the latest version of Into The Jungle v2.011.  It is now available in the user files section - https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3342301/

Its been almost a month since our last update (v2.006).  Since then we've been testing away at these features and feel we've reached a reasonable release point at this time.  We continue to come up with enhancements/improvements that we want to see added and I'll elaborate on some of those below.  If anyone is really interested in all the detailed changes, there's a changelog stored in the first trigger of the mission.  Open the MIZ and copy the contents of the DO SCRIPT into a text editor like Notepad++ and you'll see the list of all changes by version number.

The highlights of this release are:

Restructured all random group spawning to leverage MIST to randomize placement of groups on the map. 
Thanks to one of Devil's subscribers over on YT for suggesting this.  I now use a MIST routine to randomize group placement on the map.  This makes for a brand new experience every time you start the mission.  There are now a total of 23 random groups (plus 3 constants) that can spawn at the beginning of the mission.  Any spawned group can spawn in 1 of 7 different positions on the map.  That's a total of 161 different spawn locations!  This makes it much harder to locate groups and for us grizzled I2J vets, means we don't know where that bunker group is going to be.  NOTE:  mission initialization is now a little longer for those SP pilots out there.

Added new voiceovers for CSAR pilot pickup and MASH dropoff.  These new voiceovers are randomized in the CSAR script so we now have different voiceovers for pilot pickups and dropoffs at MASH.  Gives a bit more variety and life to the CSAR element.  Reduces the repetition of CSAR pilot interaction and injects some memorable pickups into the experience.  Same for MASH delivery.  Let us know what you think.  We can add more if you like.

Added new smoke dissipation routine to I2J script  
Some of this was in the original version of I2J.  When a group died, an explosion occurred along with smoke and fire.  After 7 minutes, the smoke subsided.  That worked great when the group spawn locations were static and known.  Now that the spawn locations are random, I had to figure out a way to determine WHERE on the map the random group spawned.  I hacked together a new script called I2J.lua to facilitate this task.  Now when a group is destroyed, there's an explosion along with smoke and fire.  Over time the fire and smoke dissipate.  This gives players a visual queue when the group dies and over the next 12 minutes the fire and smoke dissipate naturally leaving a small smoke plume for the remainder of the mission.  Its a pretty cool effect that we expect you're going to enjoy.

Adjusted group sizes a bit after seeing very small and too large groups appearing
When adjusting the random group positioning, I consciously redesigned the groups to average around 10 units.  Prior to this the groups averaged around 15, so the sizes have been reduced pretty significantly.  I also spent a little time arranging the groups a little better (IMO).  Groups should now be a little better organized and concentrated.  If you happen to see some wonky group positions, please let me know.  If you have tacview, please take an image from that tool so I can see the group name as position will be random per the note above.

Updated all enemy skills to "Random" - hopefully prevents some of the OP enemy firepower
This was based on some YT feedback from folks saying the enemy AI was kicking their backside.  When I opened the ME and looked, I realized that around 90% of Redfor was set to a skill of "excellent".  Changing this to Random should result in a more balanced Redfor skillset.

Devil's changes to Andersen - moved units down to Antonio B. Won Pat Intl to reduce performance requirements at Andersen
We received a LOT of feedback over on YT regarding placement of static units up at Andersen and impact on performance.  We decided to split Army/Marine units away from Andersen and move them down to the international airport position.  Devil did a fantastic job building out a period appropriate airfield at Antonoio International.  During our tests (Dedicated Server and SP) performance was greatly improved up at Andersen.

Added 2 new REQUIRED Modifications
  : Added 8Ball CAP-Navy v2.1  This is REQUIRED 

  : Inclusion of River Boats from upuaut This is REQUIRED see this video for instructions 

 

Enjoy!

[Devil 505]

A quick Island rescue from one of last week's flights on ITJ.  This was a great time.

 

[Porkbrain]

6 hours ago, Mistermann said:

We are happy to announce the latest version of Into The Jungle v2.011.

My thanks to the team for a great update.

You've packed a ton of great changes in this version, I only had about an hour to blunder around parts of the island, and spent the last 5 minutes hovering around the boats at the mooring buoys to the south-west enjoying the views before perching on the MSB's pad. 

 

[Mistermann]

Here's the video from yesterday's last test flight before releasing v2.011.  Zipper @Wulf103 tearing it up in a Bronco with me scouting in the Cayuse.  A couple things I noted:

- The early morning fog effects look awesome.  As much as I criticize ED for the state of the Core, I have to give credit here.  DCS can be an incredibly beautiful and immersive experience.  Its often these types of unplanned events that keep me coming back and making this kind of content.

- The new explosions and smoke effects are awesome up close (and from altitude).  There are several events in the video where Zipper finishes off a group in spectacular fashion.  "Being there" in a helo was epic.  I could almost feel the concussion from the explosion.  

- Really liking the new mobile sea base that @Devil 505 added.  Those assets from @Eight Ball are top notch (as always).

We've had a blast improving this experience over the past month and are excited for you to experience these changes on your personal dedicated servers.  Love to see some of your content posted here as well.

Thanks.

[Devil 505]

11 hours ago, Mistermann said:

The early morning fog effects look awesome.  As much as I criticize ED for the state of the Core, I have to give credit here.  DCS can be an incredibly beautiful and immersive experience.  Its often these types of unplanned events that keep me coming back and making this kind of content.

I have to second this Kandy! I went off in the weeds on the F-35 and the HMDS, but I greatly appreciate the hard work they have put into this sim.  It shows every time we fly.  I would go as far to say that the aggressive criticism and flak they took from me is because my love for this sim and appreciation I have for ED and DCS World goes far beyond any hobby I have.  Always looking forward to the next update. 

@Wags @NineLine Gents thanks for all the hard work on the new fog and continuing to make our combat sim dreams come true.  We are grateful for all the hard work you do put into this.  The team and I are doing our best to bring Vietnam to DCS until you gents bring the map our way.  @Wags Wags, please don't take my visor comments personal as of late. Honestly, it's your fault because you guys made the sun so damn good in game, it will legitimately blind you in VR, which I greatly appreciate.  Look forward to those tinted visors when you guys can squeeze them in! 

For the rest of the ITJ crew and fans, below was an A-4 video from this past weekend.  Uploading a solo Huey video next from a flight I took today.  Kandy has done a tremendous job with his scripting and dynamic spawns.  Every group is continuously somewhere different now.  You really need to watch the Jungle.  Even better during an early morning flight in the fog.

 

[Devil 505]

Below is a solo flight in the Huey on our dedicated team server.  I wanted to demonstrate with the latest version of ITJ you can absolutely have a stunning time solo on the mission.  This started out as an early search and destroy and turned into a CSAR.  We are working to incorporate further types of flying objectives and which I will discuss soon.  We do not want to make any promises we cannot script, but we have some very cool ideas all centered around Vietnam War era aviation roles.  The music was to keep the video entertaining since there were no comms chatter between myself and the guys.  Towards the end I narrate on the last leg home explaining a few things we are planning.  Time stamps included in the video to skip around.  Hope you enjoy.  This was a very fun and unexpected encounter.  1 fire fight led to multiple when I accidentally flew over a second group. 

 

 

[NineLine]

17 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

I have to second this Kandy! I went off in the weeds on the F-35 and the HMDS, but I greatly appreciate the hard work they have put into this sim.  It shows every time we fly.  I would go as far to say that the aggressive criticism and flak they took from me is because my love for this sim and appreciation I have for ED and DCS World goes far beyond any hobby I have.  Always looking forward to the next update. 

@Wags @NineLine Gents thanks for all the hard work on the new fog and continuing to make our combat sim dreams come true.  We are grateful for all the hard work you do put into this.  The team and I are doing our best to bring Vietnam to DCS until you gents bring the map our way.  @Wags Wags, please don't take my visor comments personal as of late. Honestly, it's your fault because you guys made the sun so damn good in game, it will legitimately blind you in VR, which I greatly appreciate.  Look forward to those tinted visors when you guys can squeeze them in! 

For the rest of the ITJ crew and fans, below was an A-4 video from this past weekend.  Uploading a solo Huey video next from a flight I took today.  Kandy has done a tremendous job with his scripting and dynamic spawns.  Every group is continuously somewhere different now.  You really need to watch the Jungle.  Even better during an early morning flight in the fog.

 

It is something we plan on doing at some point, plenty of reports on it internally, but it just hasn't happened yet. I will make sure it's noted that this is a very desired feature. Thanks!

[Devil 505]

2 hours ago, NineLine said:

It is something we plan on doing at some point, plenty of reports on it internally, but it just hasn't happened yet. I will make sure it's noted that this is a very desired feature. Thanks!

Much appreciated! It will help with those early morning fog operations.  Keep up the great work!

[Animl]

Sheeesh, whata shame

[AirCavGuy]

You gents have done an awesome job in producing the ITJ mission, and in continuing its development. I've already spend numerous hours buzzing the jungle in the OH-6A. I have to figure out how to set up a private server so I can get some friends in on this. I thought I would share an issue that I had after attacking an enemy group. This happened twice after I updated to the new mission file. Hopefully the image gives you a good idea of where to look for a fix. One time I was able to resume the mission after hitting the ESC key, and then resuming the mission. The other time, I had to restart DCS.

Keep up the great work on this mission!

null

[Mistermann]

18 hours ago, AirCavGuy said:

I thought I would share an issue that I had after attacking an enemy group. This happened twice after I updated to the new mission file. Hopefully the image gives you a good idea of where to look for a fix. One time I was able to resume the mission after hitting the ESC key, and then resuming the mission. The other time, I had to restart DCS.

Thanks for reporting.  This is exactly what I need.  I will take a look and add some defensive coding to prevent the script from blowing up (I should have had that in the first place).  Not sure why this is happening, however, which troubles me.  If this happens again, please capture the mission script error.  I'd like to know if this happens for groups other than "Rando4".  

[Mistermann]

Had a great time with the boys last night flying the next version we're testing.  3 hour flight condensed down into 27 minutes.  Enjoy.

 

[Devil 505]

1 hour ago, Mistermann said:

Had a great time with the boys last night flying the next version we're testing.  3 hour flight condensed down into 27 minutes.  Enjoy.

Mongos perspective from the flight.  I left out where I was looking down at my instruments in the A-4 and drove her right into the ocean, hence the immediate CSAR of me lifting off and picking myself up.  Just mean I need to go shoot another A-4 video today.  Working the second part of this video now.  This first video was the 3 of us trying to take out one annoying group that was really dug in pretty good. Also tried my hand at some AI stuff with my inro.  Found some pretty good software to animate photos. 

 

[352ndOscar]

Reporting very minor error in Mission Briefing:

There are 4 spawn points for client aircraft on the Map:

Andersen AFB in the North
Antonio International Airport in Central area
Abe Lincoln Carrier to the Northwest of Andersen
Facpi Point Air Mobile Sea Base (Southwest Island)
North Jungle FARP
Jungle FARP
Old Orote small airfield in the West
Pontoons East of Jungle FARP
South Jungle FARP

..should be 9.

 

Keep up the great work!