Into the Jungle - Next Gen

[Mistermann]

I really hate how the forum combines posts .... 

[SPOOKY 1-1]

  

13 hours ago, Tonker said:

*They load in fine, but I couldn't persuade them to track or fire for love nor money. Needed the AI eagle eyes to track down the last remaining target on the map - did you find it in the end @SPOOKY 1-1?!

Anyway, continued thanks to all, for all. Hopefully a bit more tomorrow

 

LOL, after 12-15min of flying around we found the last remaining bunker on the SE end. It survived everything but my gun. All remaining groups spawned in shortly after it's destruction restocking VC groups in the weeds. 

Glad you had a good time! It's even better when everyone is causing maximum destruction!

I was on SRS the entire time and didn't hear any comms. You have to flip the 2 comms toggles that are defaulted to off in the Loach. Let me know if you need any help getting it to work.

I'll see you In the Jungle!

 

[plott1964]

Spooky, what all aircraft are available on the server?

[SPOOKY 1-1]

null

1 hour ago, plott1964 said:

Spooky, what all aircraft are available on the server?

In addition to all of the aircraft found in the "Vanilla" ITJ version, the following AC can also be found at Anderson 

• F-5 FC
• F-86 (Full and FC)
• MB339
• Mosquito
• P-47
• P-51
• TF-51 (Kamikaze or Scout, up to you)

[SPOOKY 1-1]

4 hours ago, plott1964 said:

My biggest issues with SRS:

• Connection Issues: SRS fails to sync with DCS servers, causing "unknown" status and communication disruptions.
• Separate Server Requirement: Users mistakenly try to connect SRS directly to DCS without a standalone SRS server.
• Configuration Problems: Misconfigured export scripts and missing files prevent proper integration with DCS.
• Audio & Mic Issues: Incorrect audio device settings lead to failed transmissions despite successful connection.
• Secure Coalition Radios Setting: This feature can block automated services like D-ATIS and needs to be disabled in some cases.

Honestly, SRS is not the end-all savior a lot of people make it out to be.  ...just saying.

Unfortunately, the only thing that adds a sense of realism to Comms is SRS. That being said, it's not in any way perfect, but it does work GREAT. 

This issues most people have with SRS can be remedied by letting everything load.

Example: When you initially load into a MP server (whether you have SRS open or not) SRS will be queued to launch automatically. This may look like it's causing DCs to crash and with prompt the "DCS.exe is Not Responding". DCS is not responding because it's waiting for you to accept the SRS connection. If this does not happen within a specified window (unknown) DCS will then timeout and actually crash....but in most cases, if you just accept the SRS auto-connection and just wait and or click "Wait for the program to respond" everything loads up just fine. It's just one of those buggy things we all have to deal with. 

I cannot speak to any of the other issues you're having as this is the 1st time I'm reading of them.

[SPOOKY 1-1]

  

3 hours ago, HawaiianRyan said:

If people aren't using SRS, then you're not going to get the realism-minded folks to join. This seems like a server/community that wants the realism-minded community over the arcade community. I was leaning toward recommending ITJ to the DCS Academy: Cold War Operations community to contribute their A-4E skills, but without everyone on SRS, that's a nonstarter.

 

@HawaiianRyan I totally agree with you on the "Realism-Minded Community" comment as that was my original intention. 

Because the server, and discord are still somewhat in it's infancy, with so many joining up on a daily basis, it's kind of necessitated Discord comms to welcome and situate new comers. 

As the regulars, ethics and unwritten rules begin to develop, SRS will undoubtedly become the defacto communication method for those seeking that sense of Realism. 

I've already taken some preemptive steps to encourage the use of SRS by creating a VC that indicate to others that they're "down range and on SRS".

Like @Mistermann said, Because this is pulling quite a bit of people out of SP and into MP, it's possible that they haven't even experienced SRS yet. So in addition to encouraging people to use it, we also have to coach them on how. 

If I could have it my way, I would mandate SRS...but I can't. We can only lead by example and encourage others to follow along.

3 hours ago, tobi said:

Does the server allow object export?

If it weren't for the wizard himself ( @tobi ) the Loach gunner would still be on protest. 

[plott1964]

"it's possible that they haven't even experienced SRS yet." That would be me.... at least a positive experience.

Edited March 11 by plott1964

[Tonker]

Just waiting to hop back in the updated server - the service round here just keeps getting better!

Will be giving SRS a go, if anyone hears a confused-sounding Brit, all advice/corrections etc welcome

[dcval]

Hi,

thank you for all of this huge work, just tried it yesterday and starting the UH1 from a ponton in VR is just amazing, the haze and time is perfect, can feel the tropical weather. Saying that, the scene is a bit heavy to load and render so you have to lower the level of your graphic parameters in VR (when they were set on the limit). But its ok. Amazing work.

[Devil 505]

4 minutes ago, dcval said:

Hi,

thank you for all of this huge work, just tried it yesterday and starting the UH1 from a ponton in VR is just amazing, the haze and time is perfect, can feel the tropical weather. Saying that, the scene is a bit heavy to load and render so you have to lower the level of your graphic parameters in VR (when they were set on the limit). But its ok. Amazing work.

Really appreciate the feedback! We felt the same way when we turned the fog up and took off out of there.  I am really hoping Vulkan makes the scene this year.  That should help a lot with FPS in VR.  It turned the tide with IL-2 Great Battles in VR back when they incorporated it. 

3 hours ago, Tonker said:

Just waiting to hop back in the updated server - the service round here just keeps getting better!

Will be giving SRS a go, if anyone hears a confused-sounding Brit, all advice/corrections etc welcome

Tonker, when I have some time this week, I plan on doing an updated video regarding comms in DCS.  I started out as a non-believer in SRS and was wholeheartedly waiting on the internal comms in DCS.  We have struggled so much as a team with it because ED has not shown it the love since release.  We have raised our concerns but they have other more pressing irons in the fire for the time being I suppose.  I have gone from Skype with the boys running in the background to learning SRS.  I will put out my setting and how I got to where I am at with it.  More to come.  

[Devil 505]

18 hours ago, SAB0T said:

instead of watching a 6 minute instructional video for that last requirement....

Sometimes you can spell it out such as you did and for some individuals, they still have trouble on what exactly to download and extract.  This has been the case with this mod.  I know some people extracted the entire folder into their mods folder to include all the old stuff in that download.  There was a specific reason I made this video.  This is an older mod and some of the other assets in the download are no longer compatible with DCS.  It could cause issues with other mods and prevent DCS from working.  I wanted to be clear in my instructions with how to install the mod so people did not encounter errors when firing up the mission.  Appreciate you trying to assist in making things easier, but a bit aggressive in telling people not to watch the video.  Others may gain more from the instructions than you did.  

[Tonker]

32 minutes ago, Devil 505 said:

Tonker, when I have some time this week, I plan on doing an updated video regarding comms in DCS. 

Well, what you've done to date worked for me! Loach and Bronco up on comms without a hitch once I sorted some volume levels between DCS and SRS. Looking forward to the update to improve my settings.

Thoroughly enjoyable first time, thanks y'all for being gentle!

PS. Finally got that Bronco sight dialed in by the end 

PPS. 'kin awesome seeing all those Loaches with gunners hanging out the side, planting freedom seeds left and right.

Edited March 12 by Tonker

[dcval]

4 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

Really appreciate the feedback! We felt the same way when we turned the fog up and took off out of there.  I am really hoping Vulkan makes the scene this year.  That should help a lot with FPS in VR.  It turned the tide with IL-2 Great Battles in VR back when they incorporated it. 

I'm using a Laptop GPU RTX4070 (50th bench position in notebookcheck), so I'm a bit away from the road to VR, but thanks the way ED manages the openxr layer, I can still get at less ~35fps on my Q3, just enough for playing with some accuracy and very good visuals. Yep, waiting VK and a better market for a fresh new RTX. In all cases, pretty sure I will only play with your scenery the next months.

[Chipwich]

Hey guys, really love what you are doing here.  I'm trying this out with a small group Weds night 2000 EDT.  So far in testing, everything is working fine, except OH-6A spawns at Antonio have 1 x rotor blade missing, and UH-1H spawn in a crashed state.  Chinook, Phantom, OH-6A at Jungle FARP, F-5E, and OV-10 work perfectly.  OH-6A works fine on other missions, just having trouble spawning at Antonio with current version of I2J.  Scripts working well.  Thanks for any help.

 

EDIT: Getting close to finding the culprit. If I move the Loaches and Hueys just out front of their revetment, they spawn fine.  It's like there is a hidden asset conflicting with their spawn when in the revetments.  (that turned out to be false) So, going to reinstall the asset packs.

EDIT2: FYI, even after rebuilding the server from the ground up and leaving out all but the necessary mods, I wasn’t able to determine what is causing the problems with the elevation mesh at Antonio. The following aircraft are affected at Antonio spawn: F-4E non alert a/c (alert jets are fine), OH-6A a/c, UH-1H a/c. OV-10 a/c are good to go.

The OH-6A spawn and are dropped hard on the ramp causing a rotor blade to break off. The UH-1H aircraft are inverted, and the non alert F-4E a/c have their main gear collapsed, as if they were dropped hard on the ramp. TBH, it doesn’t affect OH-6A ops much, because you mostly want to spawn near the battle. Phantom and UH-1H ops are affected if you must have a C&D aircraft at Antonio. Still, would like to know why/how my environment is different from others.

Hopefully with the new mission build, my ded server issues will be solved.

 

ANSWER: 

 

 

 

Edited March 28 by Chipwich

[Tonker]

Just moving the convo here as a better home...

7 hours ago, SPOOKY 1-1 said:

My concern is how this machine of war with impact the MP experience in terms of overall "Mission Time". If it takes about 3-5 hours for about 5 people to blow through the first initial group (until all remaining units are spawned) with the current mission parameters....what would be the new average "Mission Time" (before all remaining units are spawned) with the inclusion of only 2 Cobra's?

3 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

AAA is being introduced along with FLAK at Alpha, Bunker, and the South Island.  ZSU's will randomly spawn with smaller groups.

3 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

If you fail to intercept the bombers, it can result in client slots at Andersen and Antonio being destroyed.  You will have to wait a set period of time for those client spots to respawn.

...before sticking my oar in

All the above sounds awesome, it really does, and I'm amazed at how much effort you guys are all willing to put in to keep developing 'your baby' for public servers. Thank you, truly. Also, this is on the back of much less time 'in country' than most of y'all, so do take with a pinch of salt, and obvs just my personal opinion and I'm probs not representative of the target market. That all said, three thoughts

• I'm really hopeful that the adidtion of the Cobra will not so much reduce challenge, but support specialisation.
  • At the moment we see a lot of eg Loaches pretending to be Little Birds; armed to the teeth and on the prowl*. This is great fun obviously, but not ideal in an MP environment. Likewise Bronco's shifting more to a scout/FAC role for fast-movers. More teamwork = more fun, and it takes longer!
  • It'd be lovely to see the Loach drivers focusing on scouting, working with the Cobra guys to seek and destroy those cheeky smaller groups hiding in the trees. Whilst the fixed wing brigade can hit Bunker and Alpha hills, and those larger groups out in the open etc. This would take a bit of co-ordination/group buy-in, but again would server to slow things down a bit whilst increasing investment in the action.
  • Anything which can be done to support this kind of role specialisation for the different aircraft seems to me a good thing. There are community module options for every role, so it's not like anyone would be locked out of a certain kind of gameplay, it's just a way to encourage what Shack Tactical would call Serious Fun!

*But how good is it having the door gunners up and running in the sever?! Looks cool, sounds cool, feels cool - is cool! Add the port-side minigun and it's totally changed the way I approach the Loach and ITJ. Very very good fun.

 

• The extra events/scripts etc are gonna add loads to the play value overall, but a bit like the first point, might benefit from a bit of player buy-in.
  • I fly ITJ in OH-6, OV-10 and A4 because I don't have any of the included paid modules, and initially thought 'well, bombers are awesome, but I haven't got an A2A option'...but of course the A4 has Sidewinders, and can be a potent little dogfighter! I just needed to remind myself, and might need a nudge of some kind about the importance of downing those bombers.
  • The voice cues for events really add a lot. They must be a ton of work to record, clean up and implement, but radio calls for air defense etc might be a good way to get people to hop out of of the Bronco and into a Phantom!
  • This and the other developments y'all are talking about sound super cool. Not sure when I'll be able to try them out, but I'm looking forward to it!

 

• Challenge/mission longevity can be ramped up in all sorts of ways - it's much harder to find targets in the dark, for example, or in thick foliage and steep valleys...
  • Every time I've been around at sever start I've thought a) 'blow me this looks really cool!' and then b) 'Next time I must use the Loach to go spotlighting!' but I never do because within a few minutes it's starting to get light enough to see and the mission just rolls on. Maybe starting the mission c.30 mins earlier might give us a go with this experience*
  • I'm already getting some of this in the morning fog - without someone low'n'slow to spot and mark targets, it's difficult to make effective use of weapons - and loving it

*There are also some memorable sections - maybe in Chickenhawk rather than Low Level Hell, so Huey rather than Loach - about using this technique to interdict smugglers on the Delta waterways which would make for good inspiration.

Which is all just to say - 'grats on everything so far team ITJ and sever-peeps, and remember to keep having fun with it all yourselves too. You're awesome!

(NB the unarmed Loach...!)

 

EDIT: Couldn't help myself: this will be the last chance I get for a little while, so was able to steal a couple hours' flying. Glorious as ever, and the misty weather worked a treat for slowing things down. Towards the end of my time was a period of hunting, marking and calling in a supporting A4 (good work Just Chuck!) on single trucks to finish off groups. Dunno about anyone else, but I had a great time and it was great to use each aircraft to its strengths. Third time using SRS, pretty happy that it's all up and running now. If anyone's wondering about trying it out...do it

Slipper 1 out.

Edited March 14 by Tonker

[Devil 505]

3 hours ago, Tonker said:

All the above sounds awesome, it really does, and I'm amazed at how much effort you guys are all willing to put in to keep developing 'your baby' for public servers. Thank you, truly. Also, this is on the back of much less time 'in country' than most of y'all, so do take with a pinch of salt, and obvs just my personal opinion and I'm probs not representative of the target market. That all said, three thoughts

• I'm really hopeful that the adidtion of the Cobra will not so much reduce challenge, but support specialisation.
  • At the moment we see a lot of eg Loaches pretending to be Little Birds; armed to the teeth and on the prowl*. This is great fun obviously, but not ideal in an MP environment. Likewise Bronco's shifting more to a scout/FAC role for fast-movers. More teamwork = more fun, and it takes longer!
  • It'd be lovely to see the Loach drivers focusing on scouting, working with the Cobra guys to seek and destroy those cheeky smaller groups hiding in the trees. Whilst the fixed wing brigade can hit Bunker and Alpha hills, and those larger groups out in the open etc. This would take a bit of co-ordination/group buy-in, but again would server to slow things down a bit whilst increasing investment in the action.
  • Anything which can be done to support this kind of role specialisation for the different aircraft seems to me a good thing. There are community module options for every role, so it's not like anyone would be locked out of a certain kind of gameplay, it's just a way to encourage what Shack Tactical would call Serious Fun!

*But how good is it having the door gunners up and running in the sever?! Looks cool, sounds cool, feels cool - is cool! Add the port-side minigun and it's totally changed the way I approach the Loach and ITJ. Very very good fun.

 

• The extra events/scripts etc are gonna add loads to the play value overall, but a bit like the first point, might benefit from a bit of player buy-in.
  • I fly ITJ in OH-6, OV-10 and A4 because I don't have any of the included paid modules, and initially thought 'well, bombers are awesome, but I haven't got an A2A option'...but of course the A4 has Sidewinders, and can be a potent little dogfighter! I just needed to remind myself, and might need a nudge of some kind about the importance of downing those bombers.
  • The voice cues for events really add a lot. They must be a ton of work to record, clean up and implement, but radio calls for air defense etc might be a good way to get people to hop out of of the Bronco and into a Phantom!
  • This and the other developments y'all are talking about sound super cool. Not sure when I'll be able to try them out, but I'm looking forward to it!

 

• Challenge/mission longevity can be ramped up in all sorts of ways - it's much harder to find targets in the dark, for example, or in thick foliage and steep valleys...
  • Every time I've been around at sever start I've thought a) 'blow me this looks really cool!' and then b) 'Next time I must use the Loach to go spotlighting!' but I never do because within a few minutes it's starting to get light enough to see and the mission just rolls on. Maybe starting the mission c.30 mins earlier might give us a go with this experience*
  • I'm already getting some of this in the morning fog - without someone low'n'slow to spot and mark targets, it's difficult to make effective use of weapons - and loving it

No offense taken at all my friend! The main reason we fly the Cayuse the way we do is honestly because of the lack of people.  It is always just me, Kandy, and Zipper.  I would highly encourage to go hop on Voodoos server and check out his discord.  They are trying to set up a straight milsim server where comms and role specific platforms are used exactly how you suggest.  I believe they were going to separate it from the players who did not want to go that deep.

I agree with what you are saying 100%.  But in order to accomplish this, we need a set number of players as you suggested for scouting, strike, CAS, and friendly CAP.  The good thing about the CAP is you can turn it on and off via the F10 menu, so no worries about not owning an official module dedicated to AA.  Also, when flying on any server, the server administrator has the ability to go into the mission editor and restrict certain payloads during the mission.  You could then set up each aircraft for specific roles in the mission.

I hope this helps you out.  And trust me, VN's Cobra will make this mission awesome! I do not think for one minute it will make it that much easier.  If anything, it will help break the roles up as you stated and we can finally have our official Hunter/Killer teams.

We also turned the fog up and increased the duration of it burning off.  Check out my next F-5 video.  I shot it right before writing this.  The increased density with the sun coming up absolutely makes it harder to see, a lot of times using the tracers being fired at you to zero in on the location.  Or a Bronco overhead guiding you in.  We have learned to be true scouts for one another on here and work on our cardinal directions.  Still needs work from time to time with us. LOL.

I talked with Kandy about running a night op like you suggested.  The reality is, if as suggested, keeping it authentic, nights ops were very rough for aviation during Vietnam.  No NODs, avionics were just getting into terrain following radar, and none of the platforms in ITJ with the exception of the Huey and Cayuse really flew after dark.  I think there might have been some alert Navy fighters sent to assist Intruders, but it would be a difficult time flying in the dark on ITJ.  With a full moon and flying in VR, you would be good to go, but desktop mode, hard sell.  Not saying it's off the table, but I would have to test it.  Easy test though.  Literally just flip the switch to night. Now when Heat Blur releases the A-6 Intruder, it will become a different story.  But if we do not have a Vietnam map by then or at least word one is being developed, it will be a sad day.

Really appreciate the feedback.  Keep it coming! Appreciate hearing what the community has to say. 

[Tonker]

Ah, yeah, sorry - I should've said all the above was based on a couple hours over the last three nights flying in Voodoo's server 

[Devil 505]

Did not get as much flying in as we wanted tonight but I was able to get some good footage flying the F-5 and how we have increased the fog.  Very atmospheric flight tonight.  Makes locating the enemy very difficult! 

 

[Tonker]

7 hours ago, Tonker said:

Next time I must use the Loach to go spotlighting!

Just a very quick test in singleplayer...but OMFG. This. Is. Awesome!

Looks soooo good, intuitive to use with controls bound to HOTAS, and a great help to spotting Charlie when set to AUTO. @tobi's a genius! Why had I never used this before?!

3 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

The main reason we fly the Cayuse the way we do is honestly because of the lack of people.

Ditto! Trying to ween myself off the super-heavy Attack Loach approach now I've been doing my flying on the Spooky ITJ public server. I love how much the Loach's behaviour changes with weight

 

Edited March 14 by Tonker
Moar!

[Wulf103]

It's been an on-going struggle with I2J from the beginning between historical accuracy and playability. The balance has made the three of us re-evaluate our own wants and needs, but nothing is off the table initially. We greatly appreciate and want your thoughts about current gameplay and where you would like to see this go from here. We will then have a comprehensive discussion and decided whether to continue the concept. Alot of that decision hinges on two questions. First, can we do it without overly affecting what we have already. Second, does this reasonably fit the time line demographics we are working within. You will NOT see an F-4 loaded with AIM120s. Because of this evolving gameplay, so things may change a bit. The Loach was employed as observation only. All weapons on or attached were there to defend the bird and crew specifically. Their job was to find, fix (mark), and step aside so the gun-bunnies could do their thing and destroy the target. In our gameplay that's mixed a bit. When the Cobra becomes available this could change. And this is just a small example of the work we face when we open the folders and start working on "what's next"....boy do we love this game!

[Mistermann]

9 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

Did not get as much flying in as we wanted tonight but I was able to get some good footage flying the F-5 and how we have increased the fog.  Very atmospheric flight tonight.  Makes locating the enemy very difficult! 

Piggybacking on Devil's post/video.

This is the "other side" of Devil's video from my vantage point down in the weeds.  I also captured some footage while following Zipper in the Huey as well as an unfair fight with Mongo in an F5 against 2 angry Migs.

Edited March 14 by Mistermann
Undid The Freaking Post Merge

[Tonker]

Has anyone had a go with any of @Hawkeye60's whirlybirds? Was just wondering about their usefullness as ITJ assets...

Edit: Just seen there's an OV-1 and an A-37 too, for fixed wing vibes

Edited March 17 by Tonker

[Devil 505]

Quick response to the above post, that is a negative ghost rider.  Kandy and I have been real picky on how many AI/Static mods we incorporate because unlike the official mods, it requires everyone to download them if they do not have them or edit a Lua file to allow gameplay without them.  We set ITJ up with the intent of Coop gameplay and have incorporated and continue to work on improving solo play, but I would not expect to see any AI mod units flying around.  It becomes taxing on the performance, and we want everyone to continue enjoying the experience.  I would encourage anyone who wants to give these a try though to add them on their server.

Below is today's test dropping Airborne units over Alpha and Bunker.  The fire fights that ensued were awesome! I feel we are getting closer to the ground combat aspect we would like to see for more insertions/extraction-oriented material.  I could not just end the video on a drop, so I took the Bronco to the fight for an assist on the two troops that survived the ordeal.  This was all solo play on our server.  I was the only one flying.  It was a blast. 

 

[Mistermann]

14 hours ago, Tonker said:

Has anyone had a go with any of @Hawkeye60's whirlybirds? Was just wondering about their usefulness as ITJ assets...

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

Quick response to the above post, that is a negative ghost rider.  Kandy and I have been real picky on how many AI/Static mods we incorporate because unlike the official mods, it requires everyone to download them if they do not have them or edit a Lua file to allow gameplay without them.  We set ITJ up with the intent of Coop gameplay and have incorporated and continue to work on improving solo play, but I would not expect to see any AI mod units flying around.  It becomes taxing on the performance, and we want everyone to continue enjoying the experience.  I would encourage anyone who wants to give these a try though to add them on their server.

@Tonker just following up here.  As Devil mentioned, we've taken an extremely conservative approach on I2J as it relates to mods - there are more mods in this mission that I am comfortable with as things stand today (about to announce the Herc in a moment).  The more mods, the more complex the maintenance.  Also the odds of mod conflicts and performance gremlins rise exponentially with every mod introduced into the mission.  My comments aren't meant to shade anyone or any mod in particular, rather its our way of maintaining our commitment to this mission.  This is our way of preventing I2J from becoming "work".  We all do this DCS thing for fun and when it becomes something else ...

Having said that, I feel compelled to recognize some seriously talented mod makers out there.  While their mods are not in I2J, please don't take that as any indication of their quality and fun factor.  There are many people who are worthy of being checked out for inclusion in your personal copy of I2J. 

A few that come to mind are @TeTeT, @Hawkeye60, @Eight Ball, @currenthill and @razo+r (VSN) are all top notch talent that I've run across.  I am sure there are many more that I'm not remembering this morning.

@ViolentNomad - there's already a place for the Cobra in I2J 

Thanks for understanding our approach.

[Tonker]

1 hour ago, Mistermann said:

Thanks for understanding our approach.

Not at all - thank you for sharing the fruits of your labours with us all!

I just hadn't come across them before, remembered the use of the static SH-3, and they're types I find very evocative for setting the time and place so just wanted to check everyone knew about them.

I'm also away with work and can't download and check them out for myself, so was curious as to what they're like!

Cheers for all, and the great comms - keep up the good work