Ghostmaker Posted February 3 Posted February 3 (edited) As Razban isnt going to be supporting these aircraft anymore (i assume) is it worth the purchase? I love aome of the images ive seen, i already have the f15e from them but i dont put my time into that as im also assuming it wont be maintained?? So assume the same with the Harrier? Edited February 3 by Ghostmaker
razo+r Posted February 3 Posted February 3 The easiest way to see if it is worth purchasing for you is to just go ahead and trial it for the 2 weeks and see if you like it. 6 1
Beirut Posted February 3 Posted February 3 1 hour ago, razo+r said: The easiest way to see if it is worth purchasing for you is to just go ahead and trial it for the 2 weeks and see if you like it. Yep! I've always enjoyed the Harrier. It's a ton of fun. 1 Some of the planes, but all of the maps!
Cunctator Posted February 3 Posted February 3 Dito. Still my favourite model. Hope it will be alive at least until the F-35B is here to replace it. 1
Harry.R Posted February 10 Posted February 10 Harrier is great fun and deffinately worth picking up. 1
DimSim Posted February 11 Posted February 11 Yes. Jet is working and there's plenty of great missions and campaigns for it. It's also a really fun jet to fly and fight with. 1
hmleao Posted February 15 Posted February 15 Well, if it's worth it I can't say. I would not buy it now because of the Razbam/ED problem. That being said, it's probably the module that I've had more fun with, and I have many modules. Maybe only behind the f-16.
decodeddiesel Posted March 10 Posted March 10 I'm new to DCS, but after seeing her moving mud IRL in Iraq and being the star attraction at an airshow as a kid with my pop in the 80s, the Harrier is on the short list of aircraft I've seen doing work IRL and really want to learn in DCS (Kiowa Warrior, Apache, Viper, and of course the Hawg round out my list unless we ever get an AC-130U). After reading about the Razbam - ED issues it concerns me that I'm going to spend all of this time learning such a complex aircraft only for it to break at some point and never be fixed. I've always loved the bird and will probably end up buying her once I become a better sim pilot regardless, and while the cost is not insignificant, the time investment is the issue for me. 1
Mr_sukebe Posted March 10 Posted March 10 I probably have more hours in the Harrier than any other aircraft in DCS. It's a really good module. HOWEVER, I can't now overlook the fact that the Razbam could potentially kill the module (e.g. if Razbam didn't hand over source code and a future DCS update breaks the module). In place, you might want to look at the Mirage F1, which is also a great module. 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
kotor633 Posted March 10 Posted March 10 Personally, I would not buy any RB product until the situation between RB & ED is resolved. 2 ************************************** DCS World needs the Panavia Tornado! Really! **************************************
karapus78 Posted March 10 Posted March 10 28 minutes ago, kotor633 said: Personally, I would not buy any RB product until the situation between RB & ED is resolved. I don't know, I bought all the Razbam modules and I'm happy).
DimSim Posted March 11 Posted March 11 Absolutely no guarantees, but it's also possible you may have years of enjoyment from this product before its fate becomes final. There are great campaigns and missions to fly right now. 1
Gunnar81 Posted March 12 Posted March 12 Its still an awesome little jet with most systems working as they should, if you are interested, get it!
Kurnass1977 Posted March 12 Posted March 12 (edited) I bought the module before the ED/RB situation arose but start fly a year ago circa, but I've a lot of fun. Still learning a lot but is so good and ,in some way, better of the Hornet with which I've a lot of flying hours Currently fly Hormuz Freedom Campaign and flown many Users Campaign and Missions For me,yes, it worth to be purchased Edited March 13 by Kurnass1977 2
Bigity Posted March 17 Posted March 17 On 3/10/2025 at 11:17 AM, Mr_sukebe said: I probably have more hours in the Harrier than any other aircraft in DCS. It's a really good module. HOWEVER, I can't now overlook the fact that the Razbam could potentially kill the module (e.g. if Razbam didn't hand over source code and a future DCS update breaks the module). In place, you might want to look at the Mirage F1, which is also a great module. Razbam kill it? Lol
aaronwhite Posted April 8 Posted April 8 On 3/16/2025 at 10:07 PM, Bigity said: Razbam kill it? Lol I don't think Razbam will outright kill it, but if they do leave DCS and stop supporting their modules, it's possible the Harrier and other Razbam modules could die a slow death. If there are any core gameplay changes that might involve AI, radar, FLIR or whatever else ED might change over the years, there's the possibility that the modules just stop working with the game and eventually have to be removed. I'm hoping Razbam and ED can figure out a nice solution to the current issue, but with Razbam saying they aren't going to share their source code with anyone I'm definitely concerned about the future of the modules. 1
Lucidus Posted April 8 Posted April 8 I would not buy anything RB modules until legal issue is over and we know facts. So 1 - 2 years maybe. 1 Specs: Ryzen 5800X3D, 32 GB RAM, Geforce RTX 3080, Quest 2, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, MFG Crosswind rudder pedals
Bigity Posted April 8 Posted April 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, aaronwhite said: I don't think Razbam will outright kill it, but if they do leave DCS and stop supporting their modules, it's possible the Harrier and other Razbam modules could die a slow death. If there are any core gameplay changes that might involve AI, radar, FLIR or whatever else ED might change over the years, there's the possibility that the modules just stop working with the game and eventually have to be removed. I'm hoping Razbam and ED can figure out a nice solution to the current issue, but with Razbam saying they aren't going to share their source code with anyone I'm definitely concerned about the future of the modules. Outside of who's fault - if you felt you were owed payment for dev work and it was not given to you, would YOU hand over the code you spent years developing? Edited April 8 by Bigity
Kurnass1977 Posted April 8 Posted April 8 (edited) Hope all can be solved, but I'm quite skeptical... Well, if all go for the worst, as I've stated in the dispute thread, this will be the chance to learn another module ( I own the F-14 and I've no more of 1/2 hour on the logbook...) this said, lose the Harrier will be really sad, maybe someone else will develope another version, maybe the Plus! Edited April 10 by Kurnass1977
aaronwhite Posted April 9 Posted April 9 (edited) 19 hours ago, Bigity said: Outside of who's fault - if you felt you were owed payment for dev work and it was not given to you, would YOU hand over the code you spent years developing? I guess that's kind of the crux of the whole issue at hand, isn't it? Personally, it would depend. If I was developing for a game that I knew required me to turn over my source code, as I've been developing with them for years and I just either never turned it over or eventually stopped providing them updated source code, then no, I wouldn't be shocked to see that my money flow from the company I'm working with suddenly stopped. On the other hand, if I was working and meeting all of the requirements and expectations, then for some reason they just suddenly stopped paying, at that point I wouldn't turn over anything. The thing that makes it harder for me to take the Razbam side of the argument at full face value is, if I'm remembering correctly, seeing their main developer/company leader come out and say they have not and will never provide their source code to anyone. That just leads me to believe that the potential reason this all happened at all is because ED has been asking developers for years now (following the VEAO debacle with the Hawk) to provide them the source code so that ED can keep it and in the worst case scenario with a third party developer where they suddenly decide to close up shop or just stop producing for ED at all, ED can at the very least step in and maintain the modules as the core game grows and develops. Which this Razbam debacle kind of illustrates the need for beautifully, as we're now left with a potential handful of modules that may just be cursed to a slow death. I guess from my perspective, it feels much more likely that ED has been trying to work with Razbam to get the source code for a while now, or that they were getting the source code and it just stopped for whatever reason, and then they finally resorted to the only real leverage they have as a developer, which is cutting off payments until they get the source code and reach an agreement, or until things get settled in court. For me, it feels less likely that ED just randomly decided to stop payment to a third party developer who is one of the longer running third party developers with the game, who have made some of the most popular modules in the Harrier and F-15E, which just ends up hurting both ED and Razbam. That seems way less likely to me, especially with Razbam's comments about how they won't share their source code. It would also be oddly hands-on for ED, who generally seems (from my point of view at least) to be more hands-off in letting developers do what they want. With all of the public pressure on someone like Polychop regarding the flight model for the Gazelle, ED seemed to largely defer to the developer and leave it up to them to make it as accurate as they felt it should be. It strikes me as odd that ED would just suddenly go after one developer and stop payments if they didn't have a pretty substantial reason to cause such headache for both parties. That's just my two cents on everything. Like I've mentioned in other comments, without fully knowing the details, it's hard to say. So I can only go off of what little has been said publicly, and my personal opinions on the way Razbam's comments have shaped my view of what's going on. Edited April 9 by aaronwhite
Bigity Posted April 9 Posted April 9 And from my perspective, it seems RB has been working with ED to resolve the situation and receive funds they are owed. This isn't the first time ED has had the non-payment issue with a 3rd party either. Despite a lack of a resolution meaning the end of my favorite module, I do not expect them to at least feel cheated, and THEN give that hard work over to the people they felt caused the problem to start with. I do recognize some people feel the other way around. No - we don't know all the empirical facts and likely never will.
minar Posted April 20 Posted April 20 (edited) They better darn well resolve this because I fly the AV8 a lot. Too many aircraft now are lacking support, no longer being sold, and the people suffering in the end are we who paid for them. I demand that these modules still be updated as new versions of DCS come out. We pay a LOT of money for this stuff and if they cannot come to an agreement and get back to normal with support than I certainly will not be gambling on buying newer modules. I have already invested a ton of money in this sim as have most serious players of this sim. I am also not happy with this new trend of releasing aircraft modules with no campaign at all and instead making us buy them separate. Not that long ago it was SOP to at least include one with every module but not now and thats really annoying given the prices we pay. If Devs and ED cannot come to some agreement then give the code to modders who will stow the drama and will deliver what we all demand. A working and up to date module that is improved as issues come up. To toss it in the garbage can over some disagreement is only hurting the consumer in the end and its unacceptable Edited April 20 by minar 2
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