How to use ground weapons?

[ThorBrasil]

8 minutes ago, The Gryphon said:

 

Hi @Wags and @ThorBrasil I think many of us in the community have missed  that the LOCK-ON botton must be used when doing manual bombing (!) 

From Eagle Dynamics MIG-29A Fulcrum Flight Manual :

Please see the red underlines below:

 

 

But if you scroll down a bit further, you'll see that it's possible to perform the attack without the pre-designate. And even then, it doesn't work.

 

Page 100 of the MiG-29A manual.

"Aiming in the "OPT" mode without pre-designate is performed if there is little time or altitude to attack the target.

To aim without pre-designate mark, after entering the dive and starting the laser rangefinder:

1. Determine corrections for wind speed and target movement

2. Move the aiming mark relative to the target by the amount of corrections

3. Press the gun or missile launch trigger at permitted firing ranges - the moving index in the effective firing zone and an audio signal is sent to the phones

4. After finishing shooting, withdraw the aircraft from the attack."

 

I asked Nineline to investigate whether it was my error or a possible problem.

 

5 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

I can't launch from CCIP, and the beep keeps coming. After the beep, the bombs fall in places outside the launch site. I also can't launch the fragmentation bombs. TOSS mode doesn't work either. If I'm doing the procedure wrong, please correct me! Could you investigate @NineLine? Thanks!

MiG-29A Fulcrum Bomb and Bomb Frag.miz 14.5 kB · 0 downloads

MiG-29A Fulcrum Bomb and Bomb Frag.trk 651.06 kB · 0 downloads

 

[Esac_mirmidon]

For me, bombs are falling short persistently. No matter the mode

[The Gryphon]

1 hour ago, ThorBrasil said:

 

But if you scroll down a bit further, you'll see that it's possible to perform the attack without the pre-designate. And even then, it doesn't work.

 

Page 100 of the MiG-29A manual.

"Aiming in the "OPT" mode without pre-designate is performed if there is little time or altitude to attack the target.

To aim without pre-designate mark, after entering the dive and starting the laser rangefinder:

1. Determine corrections for wind speed and target movement

2. Move the aiming mark relative to the target by the amount of corrections

3. Press the gun or missile launch trigger at permitted firing ranges - the moving index in the effective firing zone and an audio signal is sent to the phones

4. After finishing shooting, withdraw the aircraft from the attack."

 

I asked Nineline to investigate whether it was my error or a possible problem.

 

 

@ThorBrasil you are correct, I missed that part in the manual Im sorry.

I did som futher testing & I can not hit anything either in OPT mode . The bombs continue to fall short all the time no mather what I do. 

Edited Friday at 06:21 PM by The Gryphon

[ThorBrasil]

20 minutes ago, The Gryphon said:

@ThorBrasil you are correct, I missed that part in the manual Im sorry.

I did som futher testing & I can not hit anything either in OPT mode . The bombs continue to fall short all the time no mather what I do. 

No need to apologize, brother! We're here to help each other.

[Wags]

Only Pre-Designation mode. Not CCIP or CCIP Delayed modes.

[ThorBrasil]

1 hour ago, Wags said:

Only Pre-Designation mode. Not CCIP or CCIP Delayed modes.

I'm waiting for your video so I can learn how to properly use regular and cluster bombs. Thank you very much!

[The Gryphon]

3 hours ago, ThorBrasil said:

No need to apologize, brother! We're here to help each other.

Thanks buddy! Its quite a challenge to get my head around this Russian stuff, feels good to have such awesome community in DCS!

1 hour ago, Wags said:

Only Pre-Designation mode. Not CCIP or CCIP Delayed modes.

Thanks @Wags for the reply, really looking forward to your tutorial video! Keep up the great work

[The Gryphon]

@ThorBrasil

The newly released Grim Reapers tutorial is really good, you might want to have a look. There is no doubt bombing in the Fulcrum takes lots of skill, but atleast the framework and functionality is described very well below!

 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:26 PM by The Gryphon

[AeriaGloria]

On 9/19/2025 at 9:25 AM, ThorBrasil said:

 

But if you scroll down a bit further, you'll see that it's possible to perform the attack without the pre-designate. And even then, it doesn't work.

 

Page 100 of the MiG-29A manual.

"Aiming in the "OPT" mode without pre-designate is performed if there is little time or altitude to attack the target.

To aim without pre-designate mark, after entering the dive and starting the laser rangefinder:

1. Determine corrections for wind speed and target movement

2. Move the aiming mark relative to the target by the amount of corrections

3. Press the gun or missile launch trigger at permitted firing ranges - the moving index in the effective firing zone and an audio signal is sent to the phones

4. After finishing shooting, withdraw the aircraft from the attack."

 

I asked Nineline to investigate whether it was my error or a possible problem.

 

 

 

On 9/19/2025 at 9:34 AM, Esac_mirmidon said:

For me, bombs are falling short persistently. No matter the mode

 

On 9/19/2025 at 11:02 AM, The Gryphon said:

@ThorBrasil you are correct, I missed that part in the manual Im sorry.

I did som futher testing & I can not hit anything either in OPT mode . The bombs continue to fall short all the time no mather what I do. 

Pre designation doesn’t matter, all weapons can be employed without pre designation. 
 

All pre designation does is correct for wind and target movement. I have no idea why manual omits this and confuses everyone into thinking it’s something else 

I have only gotten bombs to drop accurately in CCIP, you have to look for when bomb fall line starts to rise above the 12 degree limit. 
 

I find CCRP so innacurate as to be worthless 

Edited yesterday at 07:53 PM by AeriaGloria

[The Gryphon]

16 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

you have to look for when bomb fall line starts to rise above the 12 degree limit.

Thanks for the information & it seems to correspond with what Cap described in the video above.

I shall do some more testning. 

@AeriaGloria have you used the laser range finder as it should? Cap is talking a lot about the laser range finder in the video, I havent been able to test it out properly yet.

Edited yesterday at 08:09 PM by The Gryphon
Spelling error

[AeriaGloria]

5 minutes ago, The Gryphon said:

Thanks for the information & it seems to correspond with what Cap described in the video above.

I shall do some more testning. 

@AeriaGloria have you used the laser range finder as it should? Cap is talking a lot about the laser range finder in the video, I havent been able to test it out properly yet.

Yeah, you get A at the right time. I also tested the radar altimeter ranging with laser off. 

[The Gryphon]

Just now, AeriaGloria said:

Yeah, you get A at the right time. I also tested the radar altimeter ranging with laser off. 

Ok cheers. I am wondering about CCRP. Because in the F16/18 it is used for level bombing. But I get the impression the community is using it in the MIG-29 for dive bombing, that can't be correct can it? Anyone knows if it should be used in dive or in level flight?

[AeriaGloria]

Just now, The Gryphon said:

Ok cheers. I am wondering about CCRP. Because in the F16/18 it is used for level bombing. But I get the impression the community is using it in the MIG-29 for dive bombing, that can't be correct can it? Anyone knows if it should be used in dive or in level flight?

It’s used for all air to ground as primary ranging. For CCRP, the WCS just remembers target position if under the nose. 
 

The only other way to range is inaccurate radar altimeter like Hind. And that doesn’t work well for strong dives. 
 

If your doing air to ground and the “A” denoting laser is on isn’t on, your doing something wrong or burned it out. 

[The Gryphon]

2 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

IFor CCRP, the WCS just remembers target position if under the nose.

Okey so if the WCS (Weapons Control System?) only remembers targets under the nose, doesen't it mean we should be flying level and let the target pass under the nose before release? Is that what the sovjet designers intended?

[AeriaGloria]

17 minutes ago, The Gryphon said:

Okey so if the WCS (Weapons Control System?) only remembers targets under the nose, doesen't it mean we should be flying level and let the target pass under the nose before release? Is that what the sovjet designers intended?

No, all I mean is that if target can be seen by the laser it’s being constantly ranged to make your pipper accurate. It always remembers a target that is the current focus, wether lazing or unable to laze 
 

In a CCRP, when the target goes under it it just remembers target position since it can’t laser it anymore, so it has to use its gyros. 
 

There is no one better way to do something, when properly modeled CCIP should pretty much as good as CCRP ( corrected for distance), and both better with pre designation. 
 

The process is simple 

Nose below 10 degrees, laser on ranging where my bombs will fall 

Lead is less then 12 degrees I can CCIP drop with one press 

Lead is more then 12 degrees I do CCRP, and when target goes under nose the position is remembered despite no lazing to accurately drop bomb at right time 

If I pre designate, just add “laser lazes spot and compares present pipper position to lazed pre designated spot to determine wind/movement correction” 

Other then the “laser is on for 30 sec and off for 32 sec” that is extent of laser interaction 

Edited yesterday at 08:45 PM by AeriaGloria

[The Gryphon]

13 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

No, all I mean is that if target can be seen by the laser it’s being constantly ranged to make your pipper accurate. It always remembers a target that is the current focus, wether lazing or unable to laze 
 

In a CCRP, when the target goes under it it just remembers target position since it can’t laser it anymore, so it has to use its gyros. 
 

There is no one better way to do something, when properly modeled CCIP should pretty much as good as CCRP ( corrected for distance), and both better with pre designation. 
 

The process is simple 

Nose below 10 degrees, laser on ranging where my bombs will fall 

Lead is less then 12 degrees I can CCIP drop with one press 

Lead is more then 12 degrees I do CCRP, and when target goes under nose the position is remembered despite no lazing to accurately drop bomb at right time 

If I pre designate, just add “laser lazes spot and compares present pipper position to lazed pre designated spot to determine wind/movement correction” 

 

Okey I kind of understand what you are saying ( but still a bit confused). Thanks for the effort though, really appreciate it. I will wait for Wags tutorial video and meanwhile consult the manual some more.

[IvanK]

These are some notes I was doing for myself prior to the module release. I was trying to sort out the whole AG thing in my head. Sources are a Machine translated version of Russian tactics manual, A Spanish language manual of unknown authenticity and Google translate of some pages of the Russian Tacitcs manual. The notes are preliminary. as more information come to light I might finalise and authenticate the info and describe the TOSS  (Over the shoulder TOSS) in fact. Pilot wise not knowing exactly if you are going get CCIP or CCRP until pickle is a real pain. Though get the dive angle up and release airspeed as high as possible will give you greater chance of a known CCIP release.

 

MIG 29 A Air to Ground System and Procedures.

Introduction.

The MIG29 has limited Air to Ground capability. This Includes Manual depression bombing, rocketry and gunnery using a fixed reticle without variable depression settings. Computed bombing in CCIP, CCRP and Over the shoulder Toss bombing. CCIP gunnery and rocketry.

Sensors

Sensor inputs for computed bombing include the INS for Aircraft parameters, Laser and Radalt for ranging calculations. Laser ranging is the prime ranging method with Radalt based angle ranging as a reversionary method. A digital Fire control computer is used to compute solutions with ballistic data set on the ground before flight (Stores code entry). Laser operation can be automatic or manual. Auto laser on occurs with an AG weapon selected, dive angle >10deg with range to the tgt (based on aiming sightline) < Rmax + 500m. Laser remains on for 30secs unless manually turned off. Laser manual control is by the Target Acquistion button on the stick. Once turned off there is a 30 second cooling period before it can be turned on again. The radar is not used in AG mode.

Controls

Air to Ground mode is selected by a specific switch on the left console. (though only specifically required for AG gunnery). In other cases if an AG store is selected then AG mode is automatically engaged.

The control column has two triggers one for guns and the other for rockets and bombs. In addition the target Acquistion push button  can be used to turn the laser on or off.

Station selection Inboard or Outboard is by a switch on the left canopy rail.

The throttle Lockon button is used  initiate the wind/tgt motion correction computation sequence. Laser firing is primarily automatic. In dive deliveries the laser will auto fire once the dive angle exceed 10 degrees and will remain on for 30 seconds as long as the dive angle is >10 degrees unless turned off by the pilot. The Target acquisition button on the stick can be used for manual laser control

Most other weapon related controls are located on the upper left instrument coaming. These include the Master Arm, Ripple interval, ManPrepare/Auto switch (launch/drop override), Weapon mode selection…. OPTIC or TOSS. If SALVO is selected all bombs will be released. If Single is selected just the bombs from the Inboard pylons will be released. To then get access in AG mode of the bombs on the middle pylons you must cycle the Inboard outboard switch and end up in inboard position.

The HUD mode selector switch to select the RETCL mode for manual fixed reticle bombing.

A Training mode switch located behind the seat can be set before flight. This training mode affects Gun burst and the ability to drop single stores per pickle. unless the training mode (IRL) is selected bombs will always be dropped in pairs.

Manual bombing and gunnery

Manual depression sight line bombing is considered an emergency procedure. This method utilzes a fixed reticle with numerous marks to determine depression. Given there is no means of varying the depression specific very limited attack profiles must be used. The maximum effective depression that can determined with the Reticle is just 100mills.

To ensure immediate bomb on pickle the ManPrepare/Auto switch must be placed in the ManPrepare position.

Computed Bombing MIG29 Theory

The HUD moving reticle is limited to a 12deg (214mills) from the Aircraft axis (FRL/HUD design eye)), so can indicate a computed release point up to 214mills below the FRL. This is the limit for CCIP operation. In Russian texts this is known as “Inside the visible zone” If the predicated impact point is more than 214mills below the FRL In Russian texts this is known as “In the invisible zone” the system reverts to CCRP. (Note if Russian ballistic tables with Aim Of Angle values were available you could actually find parameters that gave you an Aim of Angle < 214 mills therefore get a known CCIP delivery. At a pinch using MK82/84 ballistic tables might just give you some guidance)

When dropping in Salvo the predicted impact is based on the first bomb of the stick. So to straddle a target the pilot must manually aim slightly short in both CCIP or CCRP.

There are two variants of both CCIP and CCRP. The default is without wind or target motion compensation, and one with wind/target motion compensation. In the Russian texts the former is known as “without pre designation or the asynchronous method” and the later “with pre designation”.

The designation process is time consuming and quite involved task wise for the pilot. The Russian technique manual recommends to only use the pre designation method if time permits. They further state that pre designation is not required if time constrained and or if the Wind is <5Msec (10Knots)

Pre designation.

The pilot rolls out placing the _|_ just past the target and tracks this point (the aim off point). The pilot Presses and holds the lock on button down for a minimum of 2 secs. The HUD symbology changes (CCIP and DIL removed) an Aiming circle appears just below the _|_. Track the target with the aiming circle and release the lock on button. On release (Wind/motion correction is now applied and the aiming reference will move to indicate a wind/motion corrected impact point in CCIP). The pilot then has a 10 second window to initiate release. Track the target pickle with pipper on ideally 4 secs after releasing the lock on button with pipper on press release. If a large correction was applied then the Aiming reticle will move significantly from the target. The Russian techniques manual states that the most accurate solution will be shown 4 secs after the lock on button is released and all motion and wind correction is removed 10 secs after the lock on button is released.

If little or no wind/motion correction is applied with Aim off angle close to the 214mill limit you will only know whether the system is in CCIP or CCRP mode when you pickle ! This is considered acceptable in the Russian techniques manual and is effectively a caution that you need to be ready that Bombs may drop immediately on pickle) If the system is in CCIP mode (<214mill depression) the bombs will drop immediately on pickle.

If the computed impact point is >214 mill depression the system switches to CCRP mode. The Aiming reticle jumps to the top of the HUD and the steering G vector appears whilst holding down the pickle button fly the G vector line to intersect the centre of the steering dot. Time to release will be indicated by the time scale on the left side of the HUD. Immediately prior to release a tone will be heard. the delivery can be dive toss if required. After all weapons released the HUD steering circle and G vector line will be removed.

(Again the Russian techniques manual cautions that bombs might release immediately on pickle .. so if you think you are going to get CCRP be mindful the system might just decide its going to be CCIP )

Suggestion: Certainly for all dive deliveries plan and initially fly for a CCIP pass. If the system then decides its going CCRP then simply fly the steering symbology.

So regardless of the method the system decides to use you press and hold the pickle button down with the reticle on the target then accept the delivery mode the system decides on. (personally I consider this a really strange design Human factors wise).

The steeper the dive angle and higher the release speed the less the Aim off angle and hence the probability of getting a CCIP release. According to the manuals the system is good for dive angles up to 40degrees

CCIP no designation

Roll out with _|_ slightly past the target (The Aim Off point) and hold this position with pitch input. Left right ensure the target is under the DIL/Spade line. Whilst holding the _|_ on the aim off point you will see the CCIP symbol move up towards the target when it reaches the target pickle. Consider the vertical line ("spade" in the Russian manuals) as a DIL.

TOSS MODE

This is actually and Over the shoulder TOSS type delivery. details to follow.

------------------------

Note: CCRP referred to as Delayed CCIP in Wags AG video

Edited 9 minutes ago by IvanK

[IvanK]

Neat vid by the Grim reapers. One technique point. With pre designate method I dont think there is any need to drag the CCIP circle over the target before designating. Better to simply fly the _|_ (Pitch reference symbol) over the target designate then position the aiming symbol exactly over the target. The Aiming symbol will appear close to the _|_  anyway. This will result in less polling around to get the CCIP reticle on target.

With Over the Shoulder TOSS the weapon release according to the manual will occur at between 90 and 120 degrees pitch

[The Gryphon]

@IvanK Do you know as a Beta-tester if the MIG-29A Fulcrum have some bug that results in bombs falling short? As far as I can see on youtube tutorials (Spudknocker, Grim Reapers etc) and by community members posts, all their bombs fall short. The same goes for me when I do bomb runs. Or is it due to not having enough dive-angle (or something else)?

Edited 18 hours ago by The Gryphon

[IvanK]

Nothing to comment in that department Gryphon.

[The Gryphon]

39 minutes ago, IvanK said:

Nothing to comment in that department Gryphon.

Ok I understand, no worries thanks anyways

[NineLine]

12 hours ago, The Gryphon said:

@IvanK Do you know as a Beta-tester if the MIG-29A Fulcrum have some bug that results in bombs falling short? As far as I can see on youtube tutorials (Spudknocker, Grim Reapers etc) and by community members posts, all their bombs fall short. The same goes for me when I do bomb runs. Or is it due to not having enough dive-angle (or something else)?

There is a known issue with RBKs, thanks!

[The Gryphon]

20 minutes ago, NineLine said:

There is a known issue with RBKs, thanks!

Okey thanks for the reply & I have full understanding since this module is still being in early access. I feel confident ED will optimize the Fulcrum to its full potential.

[AeriaGloria]

Funny, my FAB-250-M62 runs long

[The Gryphon]

4 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

Funny, my FAB-250-M62 runs long

Interesting but ED seems to have full awerness about the FABs. I think we should give them some time, the Fulcrum has only been out for a week. Also I believe Wags tutorial videos will sort out any user errors from us the pilots.