Single Players: What would win you over to a multiplayer server?

[Mistermann]

I sat firmly in the SP only camp for many years with DCS.  I did try joining a couple of groups for MP but the experience was absolutely a turn off for me.  Lots of people already commented on the perils of public server MP so I won't rehash negatives here again.

Some 2+ years ago, I met a guy here on the forum where we shared some similar hardware and he helped me configure for DCS (VR Headset).  We hit it off and along with one of his buddies formed a friendship.  We fly weekly (across different time zones) and formed a lasting friendship.  I create the DCS content and host the server for us.  I can't express the amount of fun, learning and satisfaction I've received from this coop style of DCS I get from this group.  SP just isn't the same anymore.  I highly encourage people to seek out friends to enjoy this type of play.

As for what might bring more people into MP, I think this depends on the individual.  For me, I'd suggest:

-  More MP content.  There's a disproportionately low amount of public MP content out there.  
-  Socialize MP content on video sharing services.  If people could see the kind of fun a MP session generates, it might encourage more people to participate or try MP. 
  for example:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6MpA3F3Q5s

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28QYzjLO084 

-  Recognition from ED, possibly in newsletter, of available content to download and highlighted public servers
-  Better MP scripting within ME
-  Official Support for MP campaigns in ME and Campaign infrastructure
-  ED encourages/creates a payware MP campaigns

The mission highlighted in those videos is here for anyone interested - https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3342301/

Edited yesterday at 01:35 PM by Mistermann
Added link to mission

[MAXsenna]

11 minutes ago, Mistermann said:

 - I Official Support for MP campaigns in ME and Campaign infrastructure
-  ED encourages/creates a payware MP campaigns

Of course, DLC co-op campaigns. That could be of interest.

The fun and comradeship with friends I can relate to from my FPS days, while they were often real life friends and we might even be in the same room.  

[Dangerzone]

7 hours ago, Mistermann said:

We hit it off and along with one of his buddies formed a friendship.  We fly weekly (across different time zones) and formed a lasting friendship.  I create the DCS content and host the server for us.  I can't express the amount of fun, learning and satisfaction I've received from this coop style of DCS I get from this group.  SP just isn't the same anymore.  I highly encourage people to seek out friends to enjoy this type of play.

This is the MP that I have experienced. A close knit small-medium sized group that plays MP. I have tried the 'big' public servers where there's a lot of randoms, and found it wasn't for me - but having a close community that works together is extremely rewarding. I'm expecting even more-so when the C130 is released with multicrew.

I do understand though, how people who are time restraint may be turned off with having to be somewhere at a certain time to play. I think 15-20 is a good number because there's normally a few people around/available at most times, but it's not too large to break the close knit. Sadly though - I think it's luck of the draw for whether people end up finding a group that serves them or not (from what I've read here), before giving up and going SP. 

I wonder if dynamic campaign is going to be released for multiplayer, and whether that could potentially being in a whole new opportunity for people to enjoy multiplayer without having to try and find the right servers. (ie, host one themselves, and have it just for their friends). Hosting at present beyond anything sand-box basic, can be a lot of work (aka full time job) for the more advanced servers - so it will be interesting to see if the DCE will help make a more immersive experience on servers reachable for the masses. 

[Mistermann]

DC is not for MP.  ED confirmed.

Maybe someday.  The glacial pace of development and poor focus on what matters to the community doesn't give me much hope we'll see MP DC within a decade.

[Dragon1-1]

It appears that what matters to most of the community is SP content, so you can't accuse them of poor focus. Perhaps the logistics features will make it to MP, but it might be hard to bring DC itself over, since it has to handle the flow of time, particularly if we're looking at a realistic downtime between sorties.

[TheBiggerBass]

I think whether you play MP is a question of age. The younger generations who grew up with the internet seem to love it. Older geezers like me, who grew up in a world without the internet and smartphones, still prefer real-life activities with flesh-and-blood people and only go online for their own enjoyment.

[MAXsenna]

I think whether you play MP is a question of age. The younger generations who grew up with the internet seem to love it. Older geezers like me, who grew up in a world without the internet and smartphones, still prefer real-life activities with flesh-and-blood people and only go online for their own enjoyment.

What are the younger generations? I'm GenX (73), and have been playing online since - 95.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Don Rudi]

9 hours ago, TheBiggerBass said:

I think whether you play MP is a question of age. The younger generations who grew up with the internet seem to love it. Older geezers like me, who grew up in a world without the internet and smartphones, still prefer real-life activities with flesh-and-blood people and only go online for their own enjoyment.

I wouldn't sign that. I am 55 and used to play online a lot in the 90s and early 2000s. But those were mostly shooters, where one could dial in any time of day. I then moved to SIM racing and joined an awesome community. But that was far more complicated, as there were fixed times. The majority were British, so the times were naturally chosen to match their schedules. As I start work early, those times were simply too late for me. Same would apply for a DCS group. Added to that my initial statement, that I do not want waste my sparse free time, on bourse of cold starting my jet, because I was rammed while taxiing, shot down while taking off etc. Just not my definition of fun. And yes I admit, my old brain is too slow to fight teens and twens who do nothing else than flying all day long. Therefore I stuck to my SP, where I can fly whenever I want, whichever aircraft I want and any kind of mission I want.

Edited 13 hours ago by Don Rudi

[TheBiggerBass]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Don Rudi:

And yes I admit, my old brain is too slow to fight teens and teens who do nothing else than flying all day long.

There must be a reason why old farts like us are not allowed to fly a fighter jet anymore

[draconus]

19 minutes ago, TheBiggerBass said:

There must be a reason why old farts like us are not allowed to fly a fighter jet anymore

IRL it's mostly about the young healthy body that have perfect vision and can stand long flights and high Gs, which is not an issue in the simulator. Otherwise skills and experience wins.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

25 minutes ago, TheBiggerBass said:

There must be a reason why old farts like us are not allowed to fly a fighter jet anymore

Some of the most decorated / famous test pilots are/were “old farts”

[MAXsenna]

Some of the most decorated / famous test pilots are/were “old farts”

And one of them even was hit by the seat after ejection, and still forced on!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Dragon1-1]

12 minutes ago, draconus said:

IRL it's mostly about the young healthy body that have perfect vision and can stand long flights and high Gs, which is not an issue in the simulator. 

In the US at least, it's actually more of a matter of how the promotion system works for officers. Promotions come after serving for a specified amount of time, and being passed over at any point is a career killer, particularly past captain, where the number of officers is fixed. So in practice, you either get promoted, or you retire to make room for someone who does rate a promotion. The end result is, you get your skill and experience, and then you get promoted out of the cockpit. Test pilots can be much older because they're not constrained by this.

Endurance and health vary highly with age, some people can hold their own well past retirement. Bill Anders was 90 when he crashed in his T-34 a year ago. Something tells me that if you put him in a Voodoo at that age, he'd more than hold his own.  

[draconus]

12 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

The end result is, you get your skill and experience, and then you get promoted out of the cockpit.

Wouldn't many become an IP at this point?

[Dragon1-1]

11 minutes ago, draconus said:

Wouldn't many become an IP at this point?

Depends on what you mean by many, the number of instructors is relatively small compared to pilots in general, so I'd imagine the competition there would be fierce. It'd still be the desk or the airlines for most. Plus, you have to keep in mind that as an IP, you'll actually have to fly and train people, as opposed to practicing your butthole-crawling skills at Pentagon, which often seem to determine whether you get to pin on a star than anything related to your actual job... So I guess it depends on one's career priorities.  

[TheBiggerBass]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb Dragon1-1:

Endurance and health vary highly with age

YMMV. Of course, individual fitness depends heavily on your lifestyle. But I wouldn't hire a jet pilot at 90 years old 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Decent sized co-op events are pretty fun.

No interest in player vs. player because I do not care to deal with the egos of people who have have 0 real stick time.

[Don Rudi]

33 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Decent sized co-op events are pretty fun.

No interest in player vs. player because I do not care to deal with the egos of people who have have 0 real stick time.

Honestly, this is another point keeping me away from MP - the arrogance of "seasoned" MPers. Of course I understand, why real military pilots want to stay among themselves. But I encountered this nose high attitude quite often in SIM groups on Facebook.

[OmasRachE]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Don Rudi:

Honestly, this is another point keeping me away from MP - the arrogance of "seasoned" MPers. Of course I understand, why real military pilots want to stay among themselves. But I encountered this nose high attitude quite often in SIM groups on Facebook.

Inerresting. My own experience is quite the oppisite. I learned quite a lot from a former F4 Pilot and have recently been part of a greater package with several former and active fighter pilots as well as quite unexperienced sim-pilots like myself. Of course when you fly a mission with 30 or 40+ people you have to listen to the briefing and at least try to perform your assigned task as good as possible and some minimum requirements exist, but especially the RL pilots were absolutly supportive and kind to me. 

 

The public servers I tried were a total mess. I felt like joining a bunch of preteen dickheads in fortnite. Maybe there are better ones but I don´t see what it could give me. But virtual squadrons and moderated community events of bigger organisations are pure fun. My squardon mates helped to improve my skills faster than I ever could have dreamed of. I have never been pushed to any commitment. We train on wednesdays and our missions are on fridays. If I don´t have time, I don´t fly, and if I have the time, its allways fun. 

 

I like SP Campaigns, especially when they come with custom atc and great realism but that has its own shortcommings. It will never replacy the dynamic experience when 10 4-ship flights with dedicated roles like CAP, SEAD and Strike react to a dynamic combat situation on radio with two human ATCs and you have to keep the SA in your head, follow your lead, react to his commands and perform your task without getting shot. Thats the kind of realism I realy love. But you need the right group to experience this. And unfortunately DCS isn´t quite the right sim yet. But I still hope, it will be. #DC 

Edited 9 hours ago by OmasRachE

[Thamiel]

As a DCS/MP/community pilot after approx. 2 weeks of trying out DCS/SP, I would agree with Mistermann that SP simply cannot keep up. For me, it started as a midlife crisis occupation and was never meant to last long.

I never had a deep dive into the MP/public domain as the behavior of most players was not to my liking. But the companionship I found within that group (which at that time was simply choosen by size, activity and most certainly that friendly FNG approach of "lets do some flying together") now lasts for 5 years and still doesnt cease to amaze. It drove me to invest a lot of time into this hobby and it paid off by lots of MP missions just flying parade with friends into the sunset/rise after "surviving" two hours of intense action.

I started mission design and struggled with the ME, I looked into RL air force procedures and thought about how to adapt them for DCS by normal / non-military guys (like me), I started writing MOODLE tutorials for CAS and RESCORT and even developed an aerobatics course for the warthog as a sideproject just for the fun of it. At the top of it, last year I enrolled in a local glider club to go for the real thing.

All that came back with interest, as they say. So yeah, as in any normal social group of comparable size, there are guys who dont like each other. There are the service members which feel entitled to throw their RL knowledge around until they experience first hand that this is still a game, we are volunteers and earn our money somewhere else. You have the know-it-all, the socially challenged, the outright assholes (normally not for a long time to be remembered) as in any online group of people who would not recognize each other in RL.

Until they do some offline weekends and after that all is well, or at least tolerable. You dont have to like them to fly Wing for them now and then.

There are the casual pilots, the milsim types, there are the weekend flyers, the guys specializing in the color of every bolt of their singular beloved module, the Jokers capable of flying everything in their huge virtual hangar (and getting worried about their keybindings and HOTAS everytime they have to switch modules). The sleepy types surprising you with skills you hadn'nt seen before, the military veterans sharing stories about their employments and so on.

It takes all kinds.

If you cant stand company, that experience may be difficult to achieve. But being an introverted character myself, I found out a lot about myself during the last 5 years I would miss otherwise.

[MAXsenna]

9 hours ago, OmasRachE said:

My own experience is quite the oppisite. I learned quite a lot from a former F4 Pilot and have recently been part of a greater package with several former and active fighter pilots as well as quite unexperienced sim-pilots like myself.

Pretty sure he was referring to stuck up virtual pilots, not real ones.