Cheating

[Frostie]

I've flown on HL for a good few years and im quite happy to say I thoroughly enjoy it, sure you get the odd loud mouth idiot who'll try and ruin it for everyone because they got shot down and can't keep they're ego in check. These people seem to convince themselves that Lockon's little quirks are infact because of evil cheaters, but what makes this worse is their ranting spreads like a disease so other casual LOMAC players fall into this trap of scrutiny and conviction without actually paying attention to whats really happenening.

 

I can't for the life of me think why a missile missing a bandit makes someone so angry, and people leaving LOMAC because of this just brings a vision of some spoilt child. If I stressed and ground my teeth over every missile that misses for me, not just at range but as little as 5kms away i'd be getting locked up in the nuthouse, bald and toothless. If there are guys out there with cheats to avoid missiles they're not working too well.

 

When it comes to cheating I can say there has been almost nothing i've seen which I haven't later worked out where I went wrong or what happened. I think this is the crux for some people they think they are invincible, that their tactics will not let them down, but fail to realise that getting yourself in the s###, up close, there is only going to be at most one guy coming out the other end.

 

Im all for trying to weed out whats cheating and what isn't but first lets agree what is the real issue.

 

----------------

 

Also regarding why squads don't fly too often on HL, it has nothing to do with supposed cheating it is more to do with the AirQuake thats served up, an unco-ordinated mess of maddogging at close ranged bases. The 504, 3Sqn and 51st have tried to address this issue with mission changes in their servers but sadly the majority of casual players like AirQuake. A lot of squads have befriended the 51st and started flying regularly on HL because of this change.

[Frostie]

I'll just stick to making missions and playing LO/FC against the AI i've put in the missions.

:D Sort of like going from a world full of supposed cheats to a world full of genuine AI cheaters.

[104th_Money]

Solution to some "cheats"

 

I know I rarely post here, but as I was reading this thread I just thought of something that might cure a few of the cheats. Keep in mind, I dont know nearly all of them and I dont want to know but the ones that come to mind are the maddog ET's, blinking ECM and excessive flares.

 

From reading somewhere in this post that LRM can only do what a pilot could do, I came up with these. Please feel free to laugh, comment or criticize. Better I post with a silly idea than to not post at all. Also keep in mind I havent the slightest idea how to work with lua. I am sure you will get the picture though.

 

Maybe LRM could do something like this...

 

for maddog ET's...

 

 

if launch override button pressed = true

and

if fire/release weapon button pressed = true

then

same command as control + E, control + E, control + E = true

 

...the pilot gets ejected...

 

for ECM blinking...

 

if ECM activated = true

and

if ECM de-activated = true

and

if ECM reactivated within 30 seconds of first activation = true

then

same command as control + E, control + E, control + E = true

 

...the pilot gets ejected...

 

for excessive flares...

 

if maximum flares is 30 = true

and

if flares released is >30 = true

then

same command as control + E, control + E, control + E = true

 

and you guessed it, the pilot gets ejected...

 

If it worked this way, and people started getting auto-punched from their planes, we would know that they were trying to do something that shouldnt be done. My guess is that all of those things would stop pretty quick :)

 

Just my 2 cents

 

169F_Money

[104th_Crunch]

No, those are good ideas Money. Yoda had tried his best to come up with something for the same issues you mention. Unfortuately, the one thing LRM cannot do is know when you actually have pressed a key/button. For example, though scripting you can't determine when alt+w has been pressed for launch override.

[104th_Money]

Rgr that Crunch. How does it detect something like taxiway takeoff or illegal payloads then? Sure would be nice if ED would do the fixing...

[104th_Crunch]

taxi take off - LRM script determines where you are in terms of coordinates on the map. The coordinates for all the runways were manually entered into LRM. So, if your plane is not in the right location, then the LRM script will not let you output above a certain throttle setting. Even though LRM can't detect what you press, it can send key presses for you. Like the throttle restriction in this case.

 

illegal payloads - each weapon has an ID reference for each plane in the LRM script. When you load into the mission with a weapon that is not in this list in LRM, LRM presses escape repeatedly.

 

I think the best thing is to have some patience to see what is included in the upcoming patch. Considering that BS was updated with some anti-cheat features, we perhaps may get the same for LO.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Crunch

[BrumTx]

:D Sort of like going from a world full of supposed cheats to a world full of genuine AI cheaters.

 

 

By saying that I'm sure ED will be impressed, (not) When I make a mission I usually fly AI against AI just to see whats working or whats not, IE: Placement of ground vehicles etc and then add player mode and try flying it a few times. I suppose that's cheating ???? if it is then how was the Original Crimean Tour created ?.

 

It's like anything in life .... each to his own, I tried HL and didnt like it , does that mean I'm a cheater ??? Over the years on this and other forums relating to LO/FC you'll occasionally hear about cheating but I had never heard about 'team cheating' until it was brought up in this forum.

 

I'm quite happy to spend a couple of hours just watching how a situation unfolds in FC using AI and player.

 

I'm happy using graphics mods (skins) only, to enhance my game.

 

I dont need LRM or LOPE or Ramdom Generator or whatever other MOD to enjoy my gaming with FC.

(No disrespect to the makers of those mods I just choose not to use them)

[Case]

By saying that I'm sure ED will be impressed, (not) When I make a mission I usually fly AI against AI just to see whats working or whats not, IE: Placement of ground vehicles etc and then add player mode and try flying it a few times. I suppose that's cheating ????

What Frostie was trying to say was that the AI is the worst cheater around. They will ALWAYS know WHERE you are, they will ALWAYS know WHAT you fired, and they have infinite supply of chaff and flares.

[BrumTx]

I realize that and it's my choice especially as I dont play online..... it seems whatever is said on this posting it will be wrong to someone, as usual

[Frostie]

I realize that and it's my choice especially as I dont play online..... it seems whatever is said on this posting it will be wrong to someone, as usual

You can take that view if you like, but really I didn't mention whether you were right or wrong for doing so.

 

If you want to fly offline all the best to you, enjoy it, many do, but don't make the decision just because there are too many cheaters online thats just talking nonsense.

[Prophet]

Its amazing the lengths the end user has to go to, just to try and fix what should be patched.

[Vekkinho]

Last night I made an experiment with "Chaff Flare Cheat", I made a mission by simply adding a singleship MiG-29A to the map flown by me and started flying.

 

I popped all my chaff out 'til I ran out of it completely but the funny thing here is that tacview track continued on showing chaff each time I'd press "Delete" no matter of remaining qty or availability!

 

So recorded track showed no chaff when I used all of 'em but they could be seen in .acmi after each Delete input...

 

Thre U go, seems to me .lua export is tied to Delete keypress not actual chaff object!

Edited October 29, 2009 by Vekkinho

[Renato71]

Last night I made an experiment with "Chaff Flare Cheat", I made a mission by simply adding a singleship MiG-29A to the map flown by me and started flying.

 

I popped all my chaff out 'til I ran out of it completely but the funny thing here is that tacview track continued on showing chaff each time I'd press "Delete" no matter of remaining qty or availability!

 

So recorded track showed no chaff when I used all of 'em but they could be seen in .acmi after each Delete input...

 

Thre U go, seems to me .lua export is tied to Delete keypress not actual chaff object!

 

Now thats an interesting experiment! :thumbup:

Could you post both tacview and track for confirmation?

 

This is exactly the thing that bothered a friend of mine...

[X-man]

Last night I made an experiment with "Chaff Flare Cheat", I made a mission by simply adding a singleship MiG-29A to the map flown by me and started flying.

 

I popped all my chaff out 'til I ran out of it completely but the funny thing here is that tacview track continued on showing chaff each time I'd press "Delete" no matter of remaining qty or availability!

 

So recorded track showed no chaff when I used all of 'em but they could be seen in .acmi after each Delete input...

 

Thre U go, seems to me .lua export is tied to Delete keypress not actual chaff object!

I was not able to reproduce this, and that would hand in hand with the fact that flares and chaff are part of the exported data and not just recorded key presses.

[rattler]

IMO, if it is not available in RL, then it should not be used. Even if it is a bug in the program. I thought the point was Real Simulation. Just my .02 worth.:doh:

[Zorrin]

 

for maddog ET's...

 

 

if launch override button pressed = true

and

if fire/release weapon button pressed = true

then

same command as control + E, control + E, control + E = true

 

...the pilot gets ejected...

 

But surely that just takes things too far.

 

It's something you could do in the real aircraft and war isn't supposed to be fair. If you want fairness go play Cricket, you cannot get fairer than that.

 

:)

[Prophet]

IIRC no you can't.

[Udat]

Or just add ctrl to everytime E is pressed.. :D

Edited November 3, 2009 by Udat
typo

[104th_Crunch]

But surely that just takes things too far.

 

It's something you could do in the real aircraft and war isn't supposed to be fair. If you want fairness go play Cricket, you cannot get fairer than that.

 

:)

 

The realism fans like me, the guys that bitch the most :D, don't want fairness and balance, just realism.

[flask]

The realism fans like me, the guys that bitch the most :D, don't want fairness and balance, just realism.

 

 

Yup:)

[Udat]

Yes, to a degree. As an example I think they shouldn't have excluded the R-27EA just because the russian airfirce don't use them.. The missile exist, and is compatible with the flanker in the game (correct me if I'm wrong here btw..)

 

If they'd kept it, maybe they wouldn't have "had to" ruin the AIM-120 to balance out things.

[Boberro]

Yes, to a degree. As an example I think they shouldn't have excluded the R-27EA just because the russian airfirce don't use them.. The missile exist, and is compatible with the flanker in the game (correct me if I'm wrong here btw..)

 

If they'd kept it, maybe they wouldn't have "had to" ruin the AIM-120 to balance out things.

 

Yes and no. Why should ED keeps AE model where we don't know if it even has been fired. But in second way it is ready missile, ready to production, plans have been made all is ok.

 

Similar situation where I constantly hear from one guy (yeah if you read this you'll know it is you :D) that Su-25TM shouldn't be in DCS cos it is outnumbered and prototypes with at least 2 full re-upgraded Su-25T to Su-25TM standard. From one side it is ready to production aircraft but Soviet Union collapsing stopped that, and we have another side where we see it is not serial produced aircraft.

 

Anyway i vote for if plans have been prepared and it has been ever ready to produce it should be in game.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Boberro

[GGTharos]

They didn't 'ruin' the AIM-120. That is a baseless accusation and huge assumption.

 

And no, they shouldn't have kept the EA, because the Russianb air force does not use it, and because it DOES NOT exist as an operational weapon ANYWHERE.

 

Yes, to a degree. As an example I think they shouldn't have excluded the R-27EA just because the russian airfirce don't use them.. The missile exist, and is compatible with the flanker in the game (correct me if I'm wrong here btw..)

 

If they'd kept it, maybe they wouldn't have "had to" ruin the AIM-120 to balance out things.

[GGTharos]

Can I have an F-22 then? ;)

 

What about AIM-9X with helmet sight on F-15? AIM-54C? (NASA is doing it, so obviously it can be done! :D ) ... how about ASAT?

 

Anyway i vote for if plans have been prepared and it has been ever ready to produce it should be in game.

 

... and I'm glad that ED doesn't think like this. ;) That's one nasty slippery slope - for those of you who want 'possibilities' there is HAWX ;)

Edited November 3, 2009 by GGTharos

[Wilde]

There are a lot of things not in LOFC, that could have been in it. As there are Su-30s in it the timeframe would allow for quite some stuff. For example the F-15 radar modeled in game apparently is the original one. It wasn't even built anymore when Su-30 started flying. But of course it was in service in about a thousand aircrafts or so. I think ED got it ok'ish the way it is.