Next DCS (US) Fixed Wing Aircraft Wish List

[Frostiken]

My thoughts... leave a two seater for the future. A single seater will be easier and we already have a long wait.

Well you could say that every time it comes around. Right now our options are two single-seater airframes that aren't very good choices in general.

[nomdeplume]

The main problems I see with a two-seater are latency/synchronisation and having a detailed enough environment to keep both players occupied.

 

I've never played a game in this series (or others, for that matter) that didn't have other players jerking about in weird ways, especially when taking off or landing in a helo. It's not so bad when it's an external aircraft, but I think it'd make for a very interesting challenge to make it playable without weirdness when another player is controlling your aircraft. Might be okay if ED can rework the network model to allow the two players in a single aircraft to have a direct connection with each other, but even that assumes they're close enough that the latency isn't a problem.

 

The issue with the environment detail is basically down to the discrepancies between real life and a simulated environment. Real life combat ops are very demanding due to the extreme fidelity of real life, and the fluid and dynamic nature of evolving battlefields. Both of these are very difficult to recreate within a simulation.

 

The other issue is that if you do manage to create an environment that's complex enough for a two-seater to actually be better than -- or even on par with -- two single-seaters, it's probably going to be unplayable single-player. I think it's a hard call for ED to spend resources enhancing multiplayer as-is; it's a pretty big move to enhance MP at the expense of single-player. And I don't know if the two-seater fantasy has enough mindshare to actually make it worth developing "two products".

 

Still, maybe some innovative AI and interface solution could be found to keep the single-player workload reasonable.

[kakisdf]

I would be thrilled if we got any of these

 

F-16

F-15

F-18

Edited August 8, 2011 by kakisdf

[Cupra]

I would be thrilled if we got any of these

 

F-16

F-15

F-18

 

Yeah, that would be a quite good package. :joystick:

[power5]

I've never played a game in this series (or others, for that matter) that didn't have other players jerking about in weird ways, especially when taking off or landing in a helo. It's not so bad when it's an external aircraft, but I think it'd make for a very interesting challenge to make it playable without weirdness when another player is controlling your aircraft. Might be okay if ED can rework the network model to allow the two players in a single aircraft to have a direct connection with each other, but even that assumes they're close enough that the latency isn't a problem.

 

Not sure what problems a jerky take off would have. It would not be like trying to read a book that someone else is holding. The cockpit might jiggle just like is available with camera jiggle today, but its not like you would go to push a button and it would suddenly be 4" away due to a/c attitude change.

 

During take off and landings the RIO is basically just along for the ride usually. No button pushing would be necessary.

[104th_Crunch]

Not sure what problems a jerky take off would have. It would not be like trying to read a book that someone else is holding. The cockpit might jiggle just like is available with camera jiggle today, but its not like you would go to push a button and it would suddenly be 4" away due to a/c attitude change.

 

During take off and landings the RIO is basically just along for the ride usually. No button pushing would be necessary.

 

 

He is right! I think to the common observer this gets lost, but here is the scoop. When flying online you will see other clients external aircraft jump around and jitter. It is very disconcerting and kills immersion. The good news is that it seems totally fixed in DCS:A-10C! In FC2 and Ka-50 it is still there however. It was not there in FC1.

 

Also, IMHO I don't want to be no gosh darn RIO sorry. I want to fly the darn thing lol

[GGTharos]

You can be my RIO any time. I fly better anyway.

 

*goes to the notch* :D

[Speed]

You can be my RIO any time.

 

Bulls#$t. You can be mine ;)

[104th_Crunch]

Lol. Now go play some volleyball.

[Krunkskimo]

sea based f-18 or harrier module would be excatlly what the DCSverse needs and dont forget to add the pitching deck. :pilotfly:

[Phantom88]

You can be my RIO any time. I fly better anyway.

 

*goes to the notch* :D

 

Ohhhh,Are we getting a Tomcat Mavrick??:megalol:

[nomdeplume]

Not sure what problems a jerky take off would have.

I was just using that as an example where it's particularly evident, but it's present all the time. The simulation for each player-controlled aircraft is run on the player's own computer, in order to give them a smooth and pleasant flight experience (and to avoid the server having to do complex flight modeling for every player). The client sends its controller state and aircraft position etc. to the server, which relays it to the other clients so they can display that player's aircraft in the 3D world.

 

So, if someone's flying along straight and level and then suddenly roll into a high-G turn, the other players won't see the results until your computer tells the server, and the server passes that on to the other players. That can take several hundred milliseconds. In the meantime, your own computer will be "guessing" where the other player's aircraft is and displaying it at the anticipated position.

 

This is fine in predictable flight, but when maneuvering the predicted position can be off by a noticable amount, and then when your computer receives the actual position of the other player, it has to somehow move the other player from the incorrect predicted position to the correct (as of a few hundred ms ago) current position. I think previously the game just "warped" the aircraft to the new location, which when done continually looks very jittery and weird. Landing a helicopter involves a lot of very small changes to control inputs, and so it's very noticable there. But it's a constant problem due to that time window between a remote player making a control change and your computer knowing about it.

 

From Crunch's post it sounds like they're now smoothly moving the other player aircraft from their anticipated position to their actual position, so the effect is less noticable. Also, it's easier to predict the path of a fixed-wing aircraft than a helicopter, so that would help reduce the effect.

 

I've no idea how this would translate to a RIO type position. Transferring control of the aircraft (so the back-seater can take over flying) would be a technical challenge but solvable. The strange motion from the interpolated flight might cause problems for those prone to suffering motion sickness from video games. Theoretically, if the back seat "owns" the avionics and the front seat "owns" the flight model, everything should be copacetic. But there's obviously overlaps which will complicate the implementation.

 

This is probably all solvable to a reasonable extent, but again it's the point that it'd require quite a lot of resources to do well, for the fairly small proportion of players that will actually want to do multicrewed flights. Especially if you also want to make missions where the backseat actually makes the pilot more effective than two single-crewed aircraft would be.

[Laud]

Aren't challenges the reason that lets us improve ourselves?!? :D

[rextar]

Could be a tomcat which ties in nicely with the new film out next year! :=0

[Dimebag1]

Could be a tomcat which ties in nicely with the new film out next year! :=0

 

What film?! I've been trying to find a decent fighter pilot movie but all I found was top gun, stealth and those silly iron eagle series. Would be awesome to have a full blown jet fighter movie.

[Laud]

You forgot Sky Fighters!

 

Really sexy aviation footage, but as always: Story sucks...

 

Link

[rextar]

You forgot Sky Fighters!

 

Really sexy aviation footage, but as always: Story sucks...

 

Link

 

Great film!!

[thaisocom]

You forgot Sky Fighters!

 

Really sexy aviation footage, but as always: Story sucks...

 

Link

I bought that film just to enjoy aircraft footage, really they're very beautiful. :thumbup: The story is suck though.:doh:

[Cowboy10uk]

While I am well aware the next aircraft will be some sort of us fixed wing ( money's on the F 18 ) , I have to say I myself love rotary and as we know they are very short on the ground sim wise. Yes it may not be the most exciting, but I would love to see DCS take on the poor utility helicopter. Yep sorry I know it's not attack, but would love to try going into hot lz's, medivac missions , hell even just doing normal ass and trash missions.I find I spend 97% of my time just loving the flight model, flying about, now and again I may attack something. I know it won't happen, as it's not the most interesting flying, But without it the modern battlefield wouldn't function.

 

Just finished reading chickenhawk and immediate response, both stunning books that show even utility helicopter flying can be very very dodgy.

 

If anyone can do justice to this sadly very very neglected side of military flying, it's DCS.

 

Although I do appreciate it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

 

Cowboy10uk

[Laud]

I have to say I myself love rotary and as we know they are very short on the ground sim wise. Yes it may not be the most exciting, but I would love to see DCS take on the poor utility helicopter. Yep sorry I know it's not attack, but would love to try going into hot lz's, medivac missions , hell even just doing normal ass and trash missions. But without it the modern battlefield wouldn't function.

 

Sure it'd be fun to fly a UH-60 for example. You just need a fitting environment. In ArmA2 it's a lot of fun to fly the Blackhawks and Chinooks. But only because you have a highly detailed ground war going on, with client-infantry soldiers boarding your helicopter or fast roping onto a buildings roof. So ArmA needs a better simulator or DCS needs way more detailed ground action.

[KaspeR32]

I don't even care to speculate what the new DCS module will be, but what I'd love to find out is WHEN they'll raise the curtain. At what point are they going to let us know which aircraft it's going to be?? Not even a release date, but to know just so I can stop checking the forums EVERY DAY at work :doh:

[Cowboy10uk]

Oh come on, even if you know what was coming out, you would still check the forums everyday at work ;) I know I would :D

[totnine]

I don't even care to speculate what the new DCS module will be, but what I'd love to find out is WHEN they'll raise the curtain. At what point are they going to let us know which aircraft it's going to be?? Not even a release date, but to know just so I can stop checking the forums EVERY DAY at work :doh:

 

me too

[thaisocom]

While I am well aware the next aircraft will be some sort of us fixed wing ( money's on the F 18 ) , I have to say I myself love rotary and as we know they are very short on the ground sim wise. Yes it may not be the most exciting, but I would love to see DCS take on the poor utility helicopter. Yep sorry I know it's not attack, but would love to try going into hot lz's, medivac missions , hell even just doing normal ass and trash missions.I find I spend 97% of my time just loving the flight model, flying about, now and again I may attack something. I know it won't happen, as it's not the most interesting flying, But without it the modern battlefield wouldn't function.

 

Just finished reading chickenhawk and immediate response, both stunning books that show even utility helicopter flying can be very very dodgy.

 

If anyone can do justice to this sadly very very neglected side of military flying, it's DCS.

 

Although I do appreciate it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

 

Cowboy10uk

That'd be nice as well. I'd love to fly some Blackhawk or Chinook!!! Even if they're not attack helo, they still pack lot of punch. :thumbup:

 

[3instein]

Didn't know where else to put this,I was wondering what aircraft in DCS A-10 after the plane itself is the most rendered as in the best looking computer wise if ya get my drift.

 

I may be wrong but to me it's the F15C I think.

 

Will this have any bearing in what aircraft there thinking of next? :smilewink: